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Old 04-13-2014   #21
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Was that the question? Or are you just trolling?
Is there one of these "?" involved? There you go, answered your own question.

Your assertion I quoted makes no sense as a response to Corrosion unless you are asserting those QBs were not worth being taken 1.1.
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Old 04-13-2014   #22
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Is there one of these "?" involved? There you go, answered your own question.

Your assertion I quoted makes no sense as a response to Corrosion unless you are asserting those QBs were not worth being taken 1.1.

No... your question changes the nature of the argument.

No one thought those guys were can't miss franchise QBs, hence they were not worthy. The fact that they turned into franchise QBs is no different than Tom Brady turning into a franchise QB. They are not worthy of the #1 overall if you could get them at 18 or 26.


Duane Brown or Joe Flacco. Would you do that trade again?
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Old 04-13-2014   #23
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
No... your question changes the nature of the argument.

No one thought those guys were can't miss franchise QBs, hence they were not worthy.
No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.
Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.
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Old 04-13-2014   #24
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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What do you not like about Garappolo?
Well, first off, his mechanics are awesome and I do like that about him. But, I am extremely worried about him and phantom pressure. He'll try and duck and weave away from a pass rusher that isn't there. He also seems to have a problem standing in the pocket and delivering a throw when he sees a pass rusher coming.

I'm watching more tape, but here's what I think right now. He doesn't push the field consistently and he threw a lot of balls behind the LOS to 5 yards out. Just didn't see much to get excited about other than his quick release.

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Old 04-13-2014   #25
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

There is a higher risk passing on Clowney than selecting him #1 overall. It's not just a safe pick, its a smart pick & sooner the better cause teams will come knocking for chance to move up. So while its a difficult pick (can't go wrong with Robinson, Watkins or Mack) I think sir you got it right!

Try & trade the #1 overall pick now for Russell Wilson, I'll bet there is not one sane Seahawk fan that would make that move. I'm hoping Texan fans will feel the same way about the QB O'Brian selects in this draft couple years from now

Excellent addition in Martin. While most of us have focused on the outside you went inside, well played. Looks like a solid mid second round pick, he has immediate starting potential.

Zumwalt is another outstanding football player I just love his relentless hustle & love of the game, reminds me of Cushing & would make a great pairing & add depth a weak LB position.

Obviously you put a lot of thought into this, but its a weak DT/NT class so your comfortable in thinking McClullers slips this far? He is really tall for a nose tackle 6 ft-7 inches almost 37" long arms, still lifted 27 reps which showcases elite core strength for size. Under achiever but who wasn't in that Tennessee program with so much fluctuation in coaching regimes.

Another special player, good value think your spot on his draft grade too. Slot receiver more slippery than fast. Would push K-mart, maybe little stronger coming in & better route tree.

Like Beau, don't have to sell anybody here on Badger material, intelligent high motor guy.

Patchan is a late round pick, for sure that needs to develop probably as back-up guard & special teams only. you nailed inside already, this guy however will struggle with very little if any impact as NFL OT.

Very late in draft to address secondary. Has nice size, good bloodlines, but sketchy resume & durability concerns.

Yeah, think your missing a couple comp picks in there, not like they will amount to much anyway plus they can't be traded. would like at least mid-level TE & Secondary prospect to complete this amazing draft, nice work SB
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Old 04-13-2014   #26
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:



Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.
Look, if you're one of those guys who will draft a QB #1 overall because you need a QB... fine. Yes, they're all worthy if you're one of those guys.

Not my draft strategy.... but whatever.
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Old 04-13-2014   #27
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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There is a higher risk passing on Clowney than selecting him #1 overall. It's not just a safe pick, its a smart pick & sooner the better cause teams will come knocking for chance to move up. So while its a difficult pick (can't go wrong with Robinson, Watkins or Mack) I think sir you got it right!

Try & trade the #1 overall pick now for Russell Wilson, I'll bet there is not one sane Seahawk fan that would make that move. I'm hoping Texan fans will feel the same way about the QB O'Brian selects in this draft couple years from now

Excellent addition in Martin. While most of us have focused on the outside you went inside, well played. Looks like a solid mid second round pick, he has immediate starting potential.

Zumwalt is another outstanding football player I just love his relentless hustle & love of the game, reminds me of Cushing & would make a great pairing & add depth a weak LB position.

Obviously you put a lot of thought into this, but its a weak DT/NT class so your comfortable in thinking McClullers slips this far? He is really tall for a nose tackle 6 ft-7 inches almost 37" long arms, still lifted 27 reps which showcases elite core strength for size. Under achiever but who wasn't in that Tennessee program with so much fluctuation in coaching regimes.

Another special player, good value think your spot on his draft grade too. Slot receiver more slippery than fast. Would push K-mart, maybe little stronger coming in & better route tree.

Like Beau, don't have to sell anybody here on Badger material, intelligent high motor guy.

Patchan is a late round pick, for sure that needs to develop probably as back-up guard & special teams only. you nailed inside already, this guy however will struggle with very little if any impact as NFL OT.

Very late in draft to address secondary. Has nice size, good bloodlines, but sketchy resume & durability concerns.

Yeah, think your missing a couple comp picks in there, not like they will amount to much anyway plus they can't be traded. would like at least mid-level TE & Secondary prospect to complete this amazing draft, nice work SB
Thanks,

I see McCullers as a 5 tech that will probably fall to the comp 4th pick, due to the underachiever label. He didn't have much talent around him and spent too much time on the field. Taylor Hart is less of a risk and should also be a fine 5 tech if you wanted to go that route. He should also be available at the spot.

I really like Patchan he's a true talent. Just injury prone. Did you see some of the holes Andre Williams was running through. Patchan also has good feet for pass pro. Ods are that you are correct that he will wash out, but only due to injury.

I wanted to select a CB/S but there wasn't talent available that was head and shoulders above the OL/DL/LB that I selected and my 1st goal in this draft was to finally fix the trenches and find a partner to play along side Cushing.

You cant fix everything that's wrong in 1 draft when you're a 2-14 team. So fixing the OL and front 7 were accomplished in this mock. I cant ask for more. I can only hope Smith does as good a job on draft day. If that's his job.
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Old 04-13-2014   #28
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
Well, first off, his mechanics are awesome and I do like that about him. But, I am extremely worried about him and phantom pressure. He'll try and duck and weave away from a pass rusher that isn't there. He also seems to have a problem standing in the pocket and delivering a throw when he sees a pass rusher coming.

I'm watching more tape, but here's what I think right now. He doesn't push the field consistently and he threw a lot of balls behind the LOS to 5 yards out. Just didn't see much to get excited about other than his quick release.
I will be honest I only became aware of Garappolo in the East/West game/Sr. Bowl and was very impressed. I went back and watched film on him and I think he's a better version of Romo because he doesn't take unnecessary chances with the ball as evidenced by his 52-9 TD to INT ratio.

As far as the phantom pass rush goes, Mettenberger/Manziel/McCarron/Bortles etc .... suffer from the same issues.
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Old 04-13-2014   #29
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Rd.1 Jadeveon -DE/OLB South Carolina,6'5, 266 Lbs, 4.5- It came down to Clowney or Robinson and the thought of pairing Clowney with Watt was to great to turn down. Pairing the explosive Clowney with Watt helps greatly improve the Texans anemic pass rush.

2. Jimmy Garappolo- QB Eastern Illinois, 6'2, 225 Lbs, 4.9. Garappolo has a strong arm/quick release and is a great decision maker. He moves around very well, which is what won me over when it came to 2nd tier prospects like Murray/Mettenberger/Savage.

3. Marcus Martin- C/OG USC, 6'3, 320 Lbs, 5.2, Martin played OG before moving to C last yr. He will start off at OG for a couple of yrs the replace Myers at C., like the Seahawks did with Unger. Martin is a big athletic Mauler who when put next to D.Brown helps solve the 3rd &short/red zone woes. This puts Ques where he belongs at his natural OT position. Martin is every bit as good as the more highly rated Fu'a -Filo. IMHO A steal in the 3rd rd.

4. Jordan Zumwalt- ILB/OLB UCLA 6'4 235, 4.7- Zumwalt is a fast instinctive ILB who's intensity makes him a great pairing with Cushing. He's what the Texans have been missing next o Cushing for yrs. A sure tackler who has good enough speed/instinct to cover the TE. The other great thing about drafting Zumwalt is he played in a pro style 3-4 under Mora at UCLA so there should be less of a learning curve.

4. Daniel McCullers- DE/NT Tennessee, 6'6 352 Lbs, 5.2- McCullers is a huge man who was miscast as a NT in college. Being a huge man he was asked to play too many snaps and wore down as games got into the 4th qter. He's too tall to play NT in the NFL but will make a great 5 tech in RAC's defense. MCullers holds up great against the double teams allowing Cushing, Zumwalt/Clowney/Reed to roam. He' also should make a great pairing with Watt batting down passes. I also considered Taylor Hart here, a big high motor/ athletic guy.

5. Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest, 5'9 193 LBS 4.5, BOB gets his Wes Welker for the Texans offense. Campanaro is a fast/shifty slot WR who ran in the high 4.4's at the combine. He also has great hands. He also can KR/PR. Sounds a lot like Welker too me.

6. Beau Allen- NT Wisconsin, 6'3 333 Lbs, 5.2- Allen is a claasic run stuffing NT. He is strong against double teams and consistently holds up against the run. Allen isn't a pass rusher but has a good 1st step for such a big man. Allen/Powe give the Texans the big NT's that fans have been wanting tor yrs. Finally the NT's will keep Cushing/Zumwalt clean.

6. Matt Patchan- OT/OG Boston College 6'6 302 LBS, 5.0- Patchan was a highly decorated OL coming out of high school. He went to Miami and got hurt, transferred to Boston College and got hurt again in an offseason motorcycle accident. He was finally healthy for his Sr yr and helped pave the way for Andre Williams phenominal yr. Patchan is as gifted as any OL in this draft but has had 2 ACL surgeries in his college career. I really like him and would be willing to trade up into the 5th rd to get him. If he stays healthy you get a 5th rd starter. He's that good, well worth the risk. High character guy.

7. Demetri Goodson- CB Baylor 5'11, 194 Lbs, 4.4- Goodson is a former basketball player who played really well for Art Briles last yr. he's got good speed and can turn his hips and run, an upgrade over McCain as the nickel CB. Since Goodson is new to playing football I chose him at this spot because I think he has the most upside of any of the CB's left on the board. At the very least he will help upgrade a putrid ST's. Plus bringing a talent hometown guy home can never be a bad thing?

This draft fills most of the holes and adds badly needed speed to the team. I would also like to add a speedy 3rd down RB like LaDarius Perkins to the mix but couldn't find a spot for him. Maybe Rick can sign him or George Atkinson III as FA's.

I put a lot of thought into this mock and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. Let the critiques begin.
I'm still leary of Clowney. Will he play to his potential of clown the team that drafts him?

Not too long ago Garappolo was a late round pick and has been rocketing up the boards. What's really changed?

Martin and Zumwalt are great picks. Like both picks, especially Zumwalt.

Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest. Love this pick. Do you think he'll still be available in the 5th? I have doubts about that.

Like the Allen pick. He fit's Rac's system.

Didn't get to watch Patchan really but what I've read reflects your take as well. Decent gamble with possible high return.

Don't have a feel for Goodson but I know you've done your homework.

Overall great effort. If it were to turn out like this I'd be very pleased with most of it and hope Clowney clowns me.
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Old 04-13-2014   #30
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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I'm still leary of Clowney. Will he play to his potential of clown the team that drafts him?

Not too long ago Garappolo was a late round pick and has been rocketing up the boards. What's really changed?

Martin and Zumwalt are great picks. Like both picks, especially Zumwalt.

Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest. Love this pick. Do you think he'll still be available in the 5th? I have doubts about that.

Like the Allen pick. He fit's Rac's system.

Didn't get to watch Patchan really but what I've read reflects your take as well. Decent gamble with possible high return.

Don't have a feel for Goodson but I know you've done your homework.

Overall great effort. If it were to turn out like this I'd be very pleased with most of it and hope Clowney clowns me.
1. Clowney Clowns OT's
2. Garappolo- I didn't know much about him. But I had heard about him and thought he was just another small school guy. After watching him in the East/West game (He was MVP) that earned him a trip to the Sr Bowl (Where he aquitted himself quite well) I did more studying on him and think he's got as much potential as the big 3. Put it this way, What do the big 3 do that Garappolo cant?

1.Arm strength- it's on par with Bortles/Manziel, better than TB.
2.Mobility - He's as mobile as Bortles and TB, less than JM.
3.Decision making- 52-9 even against lesser competition shows me he's a good decision maker. He makes decisions faster than JM/Bortles and is on par with TB.
4. Accuracy- On par with all of the big 3. I think he's more accurate than TB because he hits receivers in stride better. I know Garappolo is more accurate than Bortles.

In short the reason Garappolo ranked so low beforehand and is currently underrated IHMO, is because he went to a small school.
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Old 04-16-2014   #31
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:



Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.
I don't mean to jump into the argument,but ernie accorsi has said a million times that if the deal with sd had fallen thru,they were prepared to take ben #4. I agree with someone who said if you can't take the franchise qb 1st,then there is no franchise qb.Harbaugh moved up in the 2nd rd to get CK. Anyone who tells us they knew Brady would be Brady or wilson would play his way is lying.
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Old 04-16-2014   #32
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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1. Clowney Clowns OT's
2. Garappolo- I didn't know much about him. But I had heard about him and thought he was just another small school guy. After watching him in the East/West game (He was MVP) that earned him a trip to the Sr Bowl (Where he aquitted himself quite well) I did more studying on him and think he's got as much potential as the big 3. Put it this way, What do the big 3 do that Garappolo cant?

1.Arm strength- it's on par with Bortles/Manziel, better than TB.
2.Mobility - He's as mobile as Bortles and TB, less than JM.
3.Decision making- 52-9 even against lesser competition shows me he's a good decision maker. He makes decisions faster than JM/Bortles and is on par with TB.
4. Accuracy- On par with all of the big 3. I think he's more accurate than TB because he hits receivers in stride better. I know Garappolo is more accurate than Bortles.

In short the reason Garappolo ranked so low beforehand and is currently underrated IHMO, is because he went to a small school.
So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on
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Old 04-16-2014   #33
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on
The 2 all star game and a little bit of tape.

Are you saying his issues are unfixable?

I read reports about the pressure thingy, but I didn't see the issues mentioned very often. Sometimes but not often. He certainly didn't look like Carr. IMHO
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Old 04-16-2014   #34
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on
Under pressure Garappolo does seem to go into panic mode taking his mechanics along with it. otherwise he looks clean in the pocket, assuming there is a pocket. not facing better competition does worry me a bit in his case because in the he will be facing players both bigger & faster. Ben was money in College, hindsight now but Texans should have taken him with 10th pick. Not elusive, but tough, climbs the pocket with excellent awareness & footwork. Flacco always had a gun, size & strength, ironically Texans passed on him too, trading the pick to Baltimore. Would you say both where worth their respective picks if not much, much higher, you could say Steelers & Ravens stole them. Bortles is somewhere in between the two. Not going to steal him with the first overall pick but you could be getting the right guy for a change & that is worth a whole lot Garappolo not so much, just don't see his ceiling as opposed to his floor. Still got to give it to SB for seeking value in a must have position
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Old 04-16-2014   #35
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The 2 all star game and a little bit of tape.

Are you saying his issues are unfixable?

I read reports about the pressure thingy, but I didn't see the issues mentioned very often. Sometimes but not often. He certainly didn't look like Carr. IMHO
When you see guys coming out of college with poor pocket presence,they normally have it in nfl also. To me,pocket presence is instincts. Just like pgs in basketball,rb,mlb,and qb, they have to have a high level of natural instincts. Tanneyhill,gabbert,and bradford are a few guys recently who came out that had pocket prsence and pressure issues and they're still there. If tahj boyd didn't run out of as many sacks as he ran into,he would be rated a lot higher. There is something to be said of qbs who get sacked or curl up because they can't feel pressure. Big Ben and Rodgers have great pocket presence even though they get sacked often. They get sacked holding the ball making big plays vs tanneyhill,bradford,and gabbert getting sacked because they don't climb,short step,or slide inside the pocket.
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Old 04-16-2014   #36
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Under pressure Garappolo does seem to go into panic mode taking his mechanics along with it. otherwise he looks clean in the pocket, assuming there is a pocket. not facing better competition does worry me a bit in his case because in the he will be facing players both bigger & faster. Ben was money in College, hindsight now but Texans should have taken him with 10th pick. Not elusive, but tough, climbs the pocket with excellent awareness & footwork. Flacco always had a gun, size & strength, ironically Texans passed on him too, trading the pick to Baltimore. Would you say both where worth their respective picks if not much, much higher, you could say Steelers & Ravens stole them. Bortles is somewhere in between the two. Not going to steal him with the first overall pick but you could be getting the right guy for a change & that is worth a whole lot Garappolo not so much, just don't see his ceiling as opposed to his floor. Still got to give it to SB for seeking value in a must have position
Sounds like you prefer a Mettenberger/Savage type pick at 2-1.
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Old 04-16-2014   #37
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
When you see guys coming out of college with poor pocket presence,they normally have it in nfl also. To me,pocket presence is instincts. Just like pgs in basketball,rb,mlb,and qb, they have to have a high level of natural instincts. Tanneyhill,gabbert,and bradford are a few guys recently who came out that had pocket prsence and pressure issues and they're still there. If tahj boyd didn't run out of as many sacks as he ran into,he would be rated a lot higher. There is something to be said of qbs who get sacked or curl up because they can't feel pressure. Big Ben and Rodgers have great pocket presence even though they get sacked often. They get sacked holding the ball making big plays vs tanneyhill,bradford,and gabbert getting sacked because they don't climb,short step,or slide inside the pocket.
You're probably right.

But for some reason I see a lot of the good Romo in Garappolo.
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Old 04-16-2014   #38
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You're probably right.

But for some reason I see a lot of the good Romo in Garappolo.
When I watch the Romo highlight tape I see a lot of Johnny Manziel.
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Old 04-16-2014   #39
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Sounds like you prefer a Mettenberger/Savage type pick at 2-1.
If they where to drop to fair value then yes, Mettenberger 3rd Savage 4th. McCarron will probably go somewhere in round 2 but not sure he is worth more than a 3rd either. Think Texans almost have to take a stand in 1st. If they can trade down great if not suck it up & take their guy
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Old 04-16-2014   #40
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Default Re: Steel B's Mock 2.0

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
If they where to drop to fair value then yes, Mettenberger 3rd Savage 4th. McCarron will probably go somewhere in round 2 but not sure he is worth more than a 3rd either. Think Texans almost have to take a stand in 1st. If they can trade down great if not suck it up & take their guy
So you're saying McCarron & Mettenberger are most likely back ups. Savage is a developmental back up?


I'm not arguing, just trying to figure out what 3rd/4th round means to you.
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