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Old 04-11-2014   #1081
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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from all i've seen and heard, yates's greatest asset is between his ears ... and that hasnt seemed to have developed as well as many have hoped. he's got a much weaker arm than schaub, and while mobile, doesnt move inside or out of the pocket very well. "size is a talent" as phil simms says, but worthless if there's nothing to it.

dont get me wrong, i'd love to see yates turn it on, but i havent seen any progression at all. if anything i think he's regressed, and lost the mental acumen that made him special.

I'm not sure how one could possibly have a "weaker arm" then Schaub. I would never contend Yates has a rocket but from my observation it's certainly not weaker then Schaub's.
I dont know how much he has developed or digressed because the sample sizes we get are tilted. There was a big debate split between who looked better in preseason between Yates and Keenum last year. I was on the Yates side. The unit as a whole has always looked more energized to me when he is in the game. He has always had a solid connection with Dre and it just appears to me that the offense wants to play for the kid. And most important of all he has shown the ability to stand in a pocket, under control, go through his progressions, is willing, and actually looks to extend the field vertically. Case can play the vertical game but he seems to always be under duress and on the edge of panic.

We pretty much know what your gonna get with Fitz and Case. I dont know if Yates could be a day one starter but I sure would like to see what he might have to offer after a pre-season with real competition and preparation.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1082
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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I'm not sure how one could possibly have a "weaker arm" then Schaub. I would never contend Yates has a rocket but from my observation it's certainly not weaker then Schaub's.
I dont know how much he has developed or digressed because the sample sizes we get are tilted. There was a big debate split between who looked better in preseason between Yates and Keenum last year. I was on the Yates side. The unit as a whole has always looked more energized to me when he is in the game. He has always had a solid connection with Dre and it just appears to me that the offense wants to play for the kid. And most important of all he has shown the ability to stand in a pocket, under control, go through his progressions, is willing, and actually looks to extend the field vertically. Case can play the vertical game but he seems to always be under duress and on the edge of panic.

We pretty much know what your gonna get with Fitz and Case. I dont know if Yates could be a day one starter but I sure would like to see what he might have to offer after a pre-season with real competition and preparation.
first bold - i dont feel it's even close, but i've already made that point

second - he did. and this is where i feel he's regressed. yates as a rookie had the most spectacular "devil may care" calm and quickness in both the huddle and in the pocket. i had the highest hopes because of that poise and quick decision. i dont see it anymore, not in preseason where he's taking the first option, nor his near panicked showing in relief of schaub last year. he's not handling pressure at all.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1083
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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That is how everybody started buzzing about Keenum, he lit it up in preseason, started strong when h got the start, then fizzled when DC had enough on tape to plan against.
I still think Kubiak had more to do with Keenum's decline that any opposing DC or game plan.
I think Kubiak's risk tolerance was well below Keenum's playing style, and he muzzled Case to the point he started playing tight. I think Kubiak might have done the same to Schaub.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not one of the people who think Kubiak's offense was bad. Quite the opposite. I think Gary's offense gets receivers open better than virtually any offense in the league.
I just think he is too conservative by nature and chokes his QBs ability to create things on their own.
It's ironic, because Kubiak talks the talk of someone who places a high value on being able to make plays "off schedule", but his actions are those of a man who is afraid of his own shadow.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1084
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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first bold - i dont feel it's even close, but i've already made that point

second - he did. and this is where i feel he's regressed. yates as a rookie had the most spectacular "devil may care" calm and quickness in both the huddle and in the pocket. i had the highest hopes because of that poise and quick decision. i dont see it anymore, not in preseason where he's taking the first option, nor his near panicked showing in relief of schaub last year. he's not handling pressure at all.
Sounds like Yates was a victim of Kubiak too, in the way I described about Keenum and Schaub in my previous post.
Kubiak is the common denominator.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1085
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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from all i've seen and heard, yates's greatest asset is between his ears ... and that hasnt seemed to have developed as well as many have hoped. he's got a much weaker arm thanschaub, and while mobile, doesnt move inside or out of the pocket very well. "size is a talent" as phil simms says, but worthless if there's nothing to it.

dont get me wrong, i'd love to see yates turn it on, but i havent seen any progression at all. if anything i think he's regressed, and lost the mental acumen that made him special.
(in bold) ooooh you said a dirty word....

I am curious to know how many deep balls Brady threw in this offense. I don't recall too many deep when the Texans played them. I think O'Brien's scheme is more about precision rather than arm strength.

hitting the seem, wheel and under routes, ton of screens then over the top for a big gain when the safeties creep up. At least that is what I recalled.

I think Yates arm would be fine in that kind of system, but who knows...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1086
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Sounds like Yates was a victim of Kubiak too, in the way I described about Keenum and Schaub in my previous post.
Kubiak is the common denominator.
i disagree. keenum progressed by leaps each year while yates flat-lined. keenum's biggest flaw is playing. he absolutely wasnt ready. i firmly believe that he is or would've been by 2014, assuming he got first team reps in the offseason, but he wasnt prepared in 2013. yates on the other hand was the stick in the mud, he didnt pass schaub and was quickly passed by a wholly unprepared keenum.

i can see blaming kubiak, but IMO yates is maxed out. same as kubiak couldnt turn a turd into gold with outaboundsky or lionhart.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1087
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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he's got a much weaker arm than schaub,
Amazing, since my 5 year old has a stronger arm than Eeyore did ...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1088
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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(in bold) ooooh you said a dirty word....

I am curious to know how many deep balls Brady threw in this offense. I don't recall too many deep when the Texans played them. I think O'Brien's scheme is more about precision rather than arm strength.

hitting the seem, wheel and under routes, ton of screens then over the top for a big gain when the safeties creep up. At least that is what I recalled.

I think Yates arm would be fine in that kind of system, but who knows...
as i can tell, those are the true tells of arm strength. floating a deep ball is something all quarterbacks drafted can do. some like brees (and keenum) do it better by landing that rain-maker in stride. driving a 15 yard zone beater between the linebacker and safety is where the arm matters - something few did better than schaub and one of the areas that brady makes his money. i dont think yates's arm is fine in that regard. i've not seen him drive a ball the way he needs to the way keenum can and schaub was good at.

as i've said repeatedly, the deep ball is NOT a measure of arm strength. dave in the parking lot after the game can chuck it 60 yards. that doesnt mean he can add touch to a line drive on an 18 yard out.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1089
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Sounds like Yates was a victim of Kubiak too, in the way I described about Keenum and Schaub in my previous post.
Kubiak is the common denominator.
Well, we'll get to test this hypothesis out with the results on whether Flacco/Ravens get better or regress. I'm betting both improve.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1090
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Amazing, since my 5 year old has a stronger arm than Eeyore did ...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1091
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Well, we'll get to test this hypothesis out with the results on whether Flacco/Ravens get better or regress. I'm betting both improve.
The first year...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1092
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Matt!!!!! Looking good ...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1093
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Well, we'll get to test this hypothesis out with the results on whether Flacco/Ravens get better or regress. I'm betting both improve.
I get your point, and you might end up being correct, but I don't think we will be able to draw a strong conclusion one way or the other, even after a couple of seasons. Too small a sample size, and too many variables in the two scenarios (Kubiak in Houston vs in Baltimore).

As I said, I think the Kubiak offense is a good one, but I think he gets in his own way more often than not, specifically at play calling. It seems to me that Kubiak has a tendency to try and force aggressiveness at the exact wrong time.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1094
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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That is how everybody started buzzing about Keenum, he lit it up in preseason, started strong when h got the start, then fizzled when DC had enough on tape to plan against.
The thing about Case, was that he never "got into" our play book. Not like Schaub & Tj did, not until he was named the starter. Outside of that, he ran the scout team, meaning he simulated the opposing teams QB (best he could).

Case was great, off schedule. But when he got pulled & Schaub came in, it was hard not to see all the throws Case was leaving on the field.

You could see it in the preseason too. Schaub & Yates came out.... three steps, five steps, bootleg... Case came out & he might hit one or two as designed, but a lot of stuff you know Kubiak didn't draw up.

This year, he'll have as much experience as anyone else with the play book, let's see how he manages.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1095
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Well, we'll get to test this hypothesis out with the results on whether Flacco/Ravens get better or regress. I'm betting both improve.
Yeah, I think Flacco is about to put this "elite" QB crap to bed.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1096
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Yeah, I think Flacco is about to put this "elite" QB crap to bed.
until he finds out he can't "audible" at the line of scrimmage...


If I am not mistaken, Flacco was one of a few QBs in the NFL that call his own plays at the line, wonder how THAT is gonna go over with Kubiak...
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Old 04-11-2014   #1097
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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I still think Kubiak had more to do with Keenum's decline that any opposing DC or game plan.
I think Kubiak's risk tolerance was well below Keenum's playing style, and he muzzled Case to the point he started playing tight. I think Kubiak might have done the same to Schaub.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not one of the people who think Kubiak's offense was bad. Quite the opposite. I think Gary's offense gets receivers open better than virtually any offense in the league.
I just think he is too conservative by nature and chokes his QBs ability to create things on their own.
It's ironic, because Kubiak talks the talk of someone who places a high value on being able to make plays "off schedule", but his actions are those of a man who is afraid of his own shadow.
Totally disagree. I think people figured Keenum out, that his success was mostly through deep passes and when he was able to scramble. When teams started to come after him, he folded. It's not difficult to stop a quarterback when they can't handle the blitz and the offensive line isn't exactly stellar.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1098
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Totally disagree. I think people figured Keenum out, that his success was mostly through deep passes and when he was able to scramble. When teams started to come after him, he folded. It's not difficult to stop a quarterback when they can't handle the blitz and the offensive line isn't exactly stellar.
This. Keenum had a horrible inability to pick up the blitz and throw to the open man. He was great for the big play but he couldn't hit the short and intermediate stuff to move the offense down the field.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1099
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

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Totally disagree. I think people figured Keenum out, that his success was mostly through deep passes and when he was able to scramble. When teams started to come after him, he folded. It's not difficult to stop a quarterback when they can't handle the blitz and the offensive line isn't exactly stellar.
I think it's a combination of both. Yes he struggled picking up the blitz, but i will give it to him based on his lack of experience. It was a tough situation to go from running the scout team to taking real, meaningful NFL snaps on a team that was so far gone. I do also agree that Kubiak lacked the ability to adjust his system to his players. That is what makes a great coach.

The real sniff test will come this season as we see how far Keenum has come from last season and what he's picked up from his playing time. If he jumps as much as he did from year 1 to year 2 we will be in good shape and i am optimistic about his future as our QB. If comes out and is still making the same mistakes then we have a problem.

Either way, I am very excited that OB is running the show now. I think Both Keenum and Yates will grow as QBs under him. We might not be as in bad of shape that we all think we are.
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Old 04-11-2014   #1100
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Default Re: So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

I dont expect Keenum to make the final roster cut. He's back up quality on his best of days. I look for O'Brien to sever any cat calling from the stands/media and end that experiment.
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