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Old 04-06-2014   #61
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
anything solid to Q moving to RT? Still seems like LG but I have nothing from new staff to support. Also, if Q is RT who plays LG? Brandon Thomas at 4-1 would be perfect and he can play OT also.
No, nothing solid about Q to RT and they could just be looking for him to be LG. He is, however, someone that OB specifically mentioned so I'm pretty sure he's in their plans.

There are a bunch of good guards in this draft. I wouldn't mind Brandon Thomas, Cyril Richardson or Dakota Dozier in the middle rounds.
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Old 04-06-2014   #62
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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This is the problem for me as I don't want any of these QBs at 1-1 & if no other way would prob go Manziel. Look guys, Moses in 2nd or Jawuan James 3-1 resolves RT. So...1-1 ? 2-1 Garoppolo Qb 3-1 James
Garoppolo will develop just fine behind Robinson & the rest of our OL
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Old 04-06-2014   #63
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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I would have no problems with

1. Clowney
2.Moses
3.Savage


Although I really like Garappollo a lot.

Or

1.Clowney
2. Garappolo
3. Brandon Thomas

They may have to trade up a bit to get Thomas. I've got him in the 45-55 range. What would be the cost of moving up 10-12 spots into the 2nd rd?
I wouldn't mind that second one. The first one... eh... if we're going to get Savage, I'm going to prefer him later in the draft. I think he's got a lot of work to do. I'm not sure his decision making is up to where OB wants it... although if he interviews well... He's tough to judge, though, because of the talent (or lack thereof) around him.
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Old 04-06-2014   #64
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Without looking at anything name the top 5 RTs in the league?
That's not a fair gauge. I can't name the top five centers in the game or come up with five LTs for that matter.
Guess I'm too Texans centric.
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Old 04-06-2014   #65
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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That's not a fair gauge. I can't name the top five centers in the game or come up with five LTs for that matter.
Guess I'm too Texans centric.
My original intent was to see how the teams performed who he judged had the best RTs to see how they compared to his prediction.
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Old 04-07-2014   #66
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

While this list isn't RT-specific it is a ranking of the performance of every O-line's in 2013. We were middle of the pack.
Goodness knows how...
LINK
Rank. .Team. . PB . . RB . . PEN
32 . . AZ . . 32 . . 27 . . 22
31 . . JAX. . 23 . . 32 . . 29
30 . . ATL. . 30 . . 26 . . 18
29 . . OAK. . 21 . . 31 . . 32
28 . . NYG. . 31 . . 20 . . 4
27 . . SEA. . 25 . . 23 . . 30
26 . . NYJ. . 15 . . 30 . . 25
25 . . IND. . 28 . . 22 . . 13
24 . . TB . . 21 . . 25 . . 17 (yes, I dbl-chk'd, PFF have both TB & Oak rated 21st in PB (??)
23 . . BAL. . 20 . . 24 . . 27
22 . . BUF. . 11 . . 29 . . 7
21 . . MIA. . 14 . . 28 . . 11
20 . . KC . . 16 . . 23 . . 28
19 . . CHI. . 29 . . 11 . . 9
18 . . SD . . 24 . . 12 . . 23
17 . . TEN. . 26 . . 13 . . 8
16 . . HOU. . 27 . . 08 . . 21
15 . . PIT. . 12 . . 21 . . 14
14 . . NE . . 19 . . 15 . . 1
13 . . STL. . 17 . . 09 . . 26
12 . . CLE. . 06 . . 18 . . 20
11 . . NO . . 08 . . 16 . . 05
10 . . GB . . 03 . . 17 . . 16
09 . . SF . . 13 . . 03 . . 31
08 . . DET. . 05 . . 14 . . 1 (they did it again, NE & DET both #1 in Penalties - ??)
07 . . CAR. . 10 . . 07 . . 6
06 . . MIN. . 07 . . 06 . . 15
05 . . WAS. . 04 . . 10 . . 3
04 . . DAL. . 09 . . 02 . . 24
03 . . DEN. . 02 . . 04 . . 7
02 . . CIN. . 01 . . 05 . . 12
01 . . PHI. . 18 . . 01 . . 19
Okay, this make no sense either, how can being outside the top 15 in two of three categories make you rank higher than the line that's in the top ten in all three?? I'm losing confidence in PFF.

Another note I hate to bring up but Seattle's success seems to indicate a mobile QB can make up for a sucky O-line.
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Old 04-07-2014   #67
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
My original intent was to see how the teams performed who he judged had the best RTs to see how they compared to his prediction.
I'm not looking at the position so much as the OL as a whole. If we were drafting later (say 10-15) I might be pumping the best guard in this draft opposed to the 4th-5th best tackle.

Two badasses on the OL is better than 1. Three is better than 2. & last year, our badass was gimpy. Maybe Brooks turns into a badass in his own right. Chances of that happening is better, I think, with better talent next to him.

The idea of adding someone to this OL who may be better than Duane Brown excites the crap out of me. If you're sitting there at the top of the draft & have your pick of the best of the best, it doesn't make sense not to draft someone because "you're good" at one position or another. QB I can understand.

If you have your QB, you don't go taking one that "might" be better. If you need a QB, you take one, if there is one graded 7 or higher.

If you can't trade down & you question Clowney's work ethic, or his bone spurs, or whether he'll be able to change positions, you take either Watkins or Robinson. I like Watkins, but I think Robinson will help the team a lot more.

But I'm just a guy. You don't have to agree with me.
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Old 04-07-2014   #68
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
LINK
Rank. .Team. . PB . . RB . . PEN
05 . . WAS. . 04 . . 10 . . 3
04 . . DAL. . 09 . . 02 . . 24
03 . . DEN. . 02 . . 04 . . 7
02 . . CIN. . 01 . . 05 . . 12
01 . . PHI. . 18 . . 01 . . 19

Interesting.

Cincinnatti is #2, with the best pass blocking & 5th best run blocking OLs. Dalton has gone to the play offs three times. Can't win a game, but they've been three times. That's at least three winning seasons.

But then you've got Dallas & Washington in the top 5. Washington, I know their QB had some issues, but their back up is "supposed" to be pretty good as well.

Dallas.... well, just saying, Romo reminds me an awful lot of one of the QBs in this draft. I love to watch him play, but I'm glad he's not on my team.
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Old 04-07-2014   #69
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Interesting.

Cincinnatti is #2, with the best pass blocking & 5th best run blocking OLs. Dalton has gone to the play offs three times. Can't win a game, but they've been three times. That's at least three winning seasons.

But then you've got Dallas & Washington in the top 5. Washington, I know their QB had some issues, but their back up is "supposed" to be pretty good as well.

Dallas.... well, just saying, Romo reminds me an awful lot of one of the QBs in this draft. I love to watch him play, but I'm glad he's not on my team.
I'm still trying to figure out PFF's logic in putting Philly at #1 when they have two of three categories outside the top 15 when Denver has all three categories inside the top ten?
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Old 04-07-2014   #70
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I'm losing confidence in PFF.

Another note I hate to bring up but Seattle's success seems to indicate a mobile QB can make up for a sucky O-line.
You have to take these websites analysis with a more than a grain of salt. And I agree about the QB. Unless you have a coach-on-the-field type like Manning or Brady, a mobile QB is an o-lines best friend. BTW, all 3 of the top QBs in this draft are mobile.
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Old 04-07-2014   #71
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Yea the recent signing of players like Ryan Fitzpatrick, I find myself confused regarding what O'Brien is up to, but nothing even comes close to wondering why Derek Newton is still a Texan. I can find no justification for keeping that guy around.

I have read posts calling for blood after last seasons disaster. Yet I hear no one calling for this guys head. Why not? Someone please explain this to me.

Why?
Some players who struggle as Tackles do well as guards. Perhaps OB wants to see if he can transition into another role? There is a little too much all or nothing with players around here. Most players aren't stars and that doesn't mean they should be drawn and quartered because they aren't. Of course you'd never know it by looking at these boards. There is no middle ground here.

IT'S A GAME, NOT LIFE OR DEATH! Get some perspective.
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Old 04-07-2014   #72
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Because he might not be as bad as "we" think he is?


Could be................ Or not!
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Old 04-07-2014   #73
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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My original intent was to see how the teams performed who he judged had the best RTs to see how they compared to his prediction.
hmmmm\
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Old 04-07-2014   #74
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Because he might not be as bad as "we" think he is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post


Could be................ Or not!
It's not just us who think he's bad...
Quote:
16. Houston Texans (10th)
PB: 27th, RB: 8th, PEN: 21st
Stud: He wasn’t as good as last year, but left tackle Duane Brown (+14.6) still had a useful year. We expect an athlete like him to do a little more in the run game.
Dud: It’s hard to imagine Bill O’Brien sticking with Derek Newton (-24.3). If you could give him a pass last year, then this year there were no excuses.
Analysis: A line that has talent but didn’t always live up to it. Wade Smith remains a player not matching the high expectations he created in his first year, while the right tackle spot is just a mess at this point. The good news is Brandon Brooks is coming along nicely, but you do wonder if a change in offensive schemes might leave some players out of place.
From RotoWorld; this ranking is going into last season. The number is parenthesis was our rank going into 2012...
Quote:
12. Houston Texans (5)

2012 Run Block Rankings: 13, 9
2012 Pass Block Rankings: 11, 9

LT: Duane Brown
LG: Wade Smith
C: Chris Myers
RG: Ben Jones
RT: Derek Newton
Super Sub: OT Ryan Harris

Overview: Although Houston's 2012 front five drew strong marks across the board and returns every starter, this is not quite a question mark-free line. Brown and Myers remain top-notch starters, but both Smith and Newton are coming off knee surgery. Smith is 32 and entering his decline. Newton was the Texans' biggest up-front liability last season, getting overpowered in the run game and playing a big role in Arian Foster's career-worst 4.06 YPC average. Newton will be pushed by Harris and 2013 third-rounder Brennan Williams. Line play is still a plus for this offense, but the group has weaknesses and can no longer be considered among the NFL's elite.
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Old 04-08-2014   #75
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Some players who struggle as Tackles do well as guards. Perhaps OB wants to see if he can transition into another role? There is a little too much all or nothing with players around here. Most players aren't stars and that doesn't mean they should be drawn and quartered because they aren't. Of course you'd never know it by looking at these boards. There is no middle ground here.

IT'S A GAME, NOT LIFE OR DEATH! Get some perspective.
Oh really? Name 5 who struggled at tackle but were given a chance on the same team that succeeded at guard.

I never said nor implied it was life or death, so telling me to get some perspective makes no sense. I asked why a player who is obviously less than average is still on the team. And while I realize your comments were not necessarily directed at me, I never said anyone was going to die, or that they should be drawn and quartered. I suggested that the player in question should be cut. All NFL players are stars, that is why they are in the NFL and not delivering pizzas, so perhaps it is you who needs some perspective.

You're right on one thing though, there is no middle ground on this or any other message board, and your comments prove there is no shortage of over the top drama either. IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD, NOT LIFE OR DEATH! Get some perspective.

Reading all of the opinions is pretty funny, because the same people who are saying oh give him another chance, or maybe he would be better at guard are the same people who said they wanted blood with other players who failed less miserably than Newton has over the last few years, but now, with a guy who clearly deserves to get the axe, it's all butterflies and rainbows.

What happened to all the "We don't want losers on our team" attitude? Newton fits that bill and then some, why waste more time trying him at guard when he has proven to be sub standard? When you take out the garbage, you take it all out. You do not leave a bag here or there.

Those saying he may not make it past camp make sense, but that is just another excuse. Plenty of other bodies out there. Just because he is still employed by the Texans should not figure into it. You send a message to the locker room that sub par pay will not be tolerated, and you cut the guy.
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Old 04-08-2014   #76
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Oh really? Name 5 who struggled at tackle but were given a chance on the same team that succeeded at guard.
Robert Gallery and Tony Manderich immediately come to mind.

From possibly the greatest OL over a decade, the 90s Cowboys line - Nate Newton, Larry Allen and Kevin Gogan all played both OT and OG.

One every Texan fan should know - Chester Pitts. Actually another every Texan fan should know - Zach Wiegert.
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Old 04-08-2014   #77
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Robert Gallery and Tony Manderich immediately come to mind.

From possibly the greatest OL over a decade, the 90s Cowboys line - Nate Newton, Larry Allen and Kevin Gogan all played both OT and OG.

One every Texan fan should know - Chester Pitts. Actually another every Texan fan should know - Zach Wiegert.

Sometimes I feel Chester was under appreciated. He was definitely a master of all the OLINE trade.
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Old 04-08-2014   #78
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

WHY THE PHYCKE DID the NFL move the draft back to May??? (while not immediately related to this thread, still related to this thread). It encompasses replacements for our RT via draft, FA or otherwise.

Now that the Final Four is over and and there is a National Champ, I don't have any other sports to keep me occupied (i.e. Rockets & 'Stros - THANK YOU COMCAST!!!) until the draft.
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Old 04-09-2014   #79
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Robert Gallery and Tony Manderich immediately come to mind.

From possibly the greatest OL over a decade, the 90s Cowboys line - Nate Newton, Larry Allen and Kevin Gogan all played both OT and OG.

One every Texan fan should know - Chester Pitts. Actually another every Texan fan should know - Zach Wiegert.
OK so you are saying those players sucked as bad as Newton at Tackle (Not possible!), were then demoted to guards on the same team and succeeded?

Even if that is true, you will have to admit, there are far more failures than success stories in this arena... most teams just cut the player and move on.

I honestly cannot believe any of you are defending Newton. But I think this is my point. You guys rail on certain players or coaches, but then want to give a pass to Newton. Madness!

As horrible as Newton played for the last two seasons, there should be no question that regardless of your perceived potential for Newton at guard, he should not make the 53 man roster, and should be joining other failures on the unemployment line.
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Old 04-09-2014   #80
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Default Re: Why is Derek Newton Still a Texan?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
OK so you are saying those players sucked as bad as Newton at Tackle (Not possible!), were then demoted to guards on the same team and succeeded?

As horrible as Newton played for the last two seasons, there should be no question that regardless of your perceived potential for Newton at guard, he should not make the 53 man roster, and should be joining other failures on the unemployment line.
No, but that wasn't what you asked.

In any event, all I (and I believe several others) are saying is there is something in between starter and the street. There is zero reason to cut him right now. Might as well let him compete to make the 53 as a backup. Gotta have depth also, not just starters.
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