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Old 04-05-2014   #41
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
But the Texans have been badly mismanaged, see 2-14.
What do you think about last year's 2-14 Chiefs, or this year's 3-13 Atlanta Falcons?
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Old 04-05-2014   #42
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Would you like to make a bet on the McNair's firing Rick Smith before next season? Easy $$$$
He said how do we know.

We don't know. It's very possible that McNair will fire Smith after the draft, the same way he did Casserly.
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Old 04-05-2014   #43
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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He said how do we know.

We don't know. It's very possible that McNair will fire Smith after the draft, the same way he did Casserly.
Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?
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Old 04-05-2014   #44
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?
& Capers was fired after the season. I'm not saying he's following a script, just that we know McNair believes continuity through the draft is important.
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Old 04-05-2014   #45
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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I'm sorry, where did you see a prediction? What I said is its a possibility and not the absurdity you portrayed it as.
Just what I thought,

You think Rick Smith is going to be the GM next yr and just want to be argumentative.
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Old 04-05-2014   #46
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?
Nope. Somewhat rumored but the announcement came on May 10th after the draft and was effective June 1st.
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Old 04-05-2014   #47
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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What do you think about last year's 2-14 Chiefs, or this year's 3-13 Atlanta Falcons?
The Chiefs fully changed regimes.

The Falcons kept their regime and are going to use FA/Draft to restock. They have already had a great FA haul and if they do well in the draft then the Falcons should be well positioned for yrs to come. The Falcons took their medicine for the Julio Jones trade last yr and will be better off for it in the long run. I predict IF the Falcons stay healthy they will challenge the 49ers/Seahawks/Saints for the NFC crown.

How did the Texans do in FA compared to the Falcons this yr.
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Old 04-05-2014   #48
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Nope. Somewhat rumored but the announcement came on May 10th after the draft and was effective June 1st.
LOL
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Old 04-05-2014   #49
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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LOL
What?
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Old 04-05-2014   #50
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Would you like to make a bet on the McNair's firing Rick Smith before next season? Easy $$$$
I'm not a betting man. I don't claim to know the future. However, McNair let Casserly finish the draft before letting him go and he's stated that he doesn't want to fire coaches mid-season. He might consider a GM's season to end with the Draft. So there's a possibility that he'll fire Rick Smith after the draft.

However. I don't believe that McNair doesn't want to win. I think he does. I think he believes that it's better to be patient and to give people a chance to succeed than to swap guys out willy-nilly. And I agree with him.

I do know that you don't like McNair. You think he's cheap and just trying to maximize his profits. You think he doesn't want to spend the money necessary to make this team a winner. You think he's doing everything all wrong.

So there's not much more to discuss since I don't believe a single thing that you do.
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Old 04-05-2014   #51
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The Chiefs fully changed regimes.

The Falcons kept their regime and are going to use FA/Draft to restock. They have already had a great FA haul and if they do well in the draft then the Falcons should be well positioned for yrs to come. The Falcons took their medicine for the Julio Jones trade last yr and will be better off for it in the long run. I predict IF the Falcons stay healthy they will challenge the 49ers/Seahawks/Saints for the NFC crown.

How did the Texans do in FA compared to the Falcons this yr.
We won't know until the end of the season.

You're saying this team has been mismanaged because we didn't bring in a bunch of FAs? Even if we had the money (which we could have even now if we need it) we wouldn't spend it. It hasn't been our M.O.

I'd be surprised if the Falcons win a play off game. They've only won one since 2005
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Old 04-05-2014   #52
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'm not a betting man. I don't claim to know the future. However, McNair let Casserly finish the draft before letting him go and he's stated that he doesn't want to fire coaches mid-season. He might consider a GM's season to end with the Draft. So there's a possibility that he'll fire Rick Smith after the draft.

However. I don't believe that McNair doesn't want to win. I think he does. I think he believes that it's better to be patient and to give people a chance to succeed than to swap guys out willy-nilly. And I agree with him.

I do know that you don't like McNair. You think he's cheap and just trying to maximize his profits. You think he doesn't want to spend the money necessary to make this team a winner. You think he's doing everything all wrong.

So there's not much more to discuss since I don't believe a single thing that you do.
Some of that, but not all of that.

I do think McNair is cheap when it comes to hiring asst coaches/trainers/scouts. This rears it's ugly head when injuries pop up and the team has little to no depth.

I don't think holding GM's/HC's responsible and their failures costing them their jobs is being wily nilly. Think about it this way, how much farther along would the Texans be if they had fired Rick/Gary in 2010. 2-14 means they couldn't have done worse. The NFL is a results oriented league and so far McNair's on the field product has left much to be desired.

The Texans marketing/PR dept is the best in the NFL. So I think it's quite clear what McNair's priorities are and no I don't hate the man I just see him for what he is. Sure he would like to win, all owners would like to win. Winning just isn't McNair's #1 priority.

A wise man (Texan Bill) once told me the Texans wouldn't ever be built by the model that I would like. McNair prefers the corporate model. That model is rarely successful.
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Old 04-05-2014   #53
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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We won't know until the end of the season.

You're saying this team has been mismanaged because we didn't bring in a bunch of FAs? Even if we had the money (which we could have even now if we need it) we wouldn't spend it. It hasn't been our M.O.

I'd be surprised if the Falcons win a play off game. They've only won one since 2005
Nope,

What I'm showing is the difference in how the Falcons are managed and the Texans. The Falcons were 3-13 and have a ton of $$$$ to spend in FA and have added major FA acquisitions and will have a high draft pick.

The Texans were up against the cap, couldn't make many moves and have to rely on a GM that missed on two 3rd rd picks in last yrs draft to fill 5/6 huge holes on the team.
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Old 04-05-2014   #54
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Some of that, but not all of that.

I do think McNair is cheap when it comes to hiring asst coaches/trainers/scouts. This rears it's ugly head when injuries pop up and the team has little to no depth.

I don't think holding GM's/HC's responsible and their failures costing them their jobs is being wily nilly. Think about it this way, how much farther along would the Texans be if they had fired Rick/Gary in 2010. 2-14 means they couldn't have done worse. The NFL is a results oriented league and so far McNair's on the field product has left much to be desired.

The Texans marketing/PR dept is the best in the NFL. So I think it's quite clear what McNair's priorities are and no I don't hate the man I just see him for what he is. Sure he would like to win, all owners would like to win. Winning just isn't McNair's #1 priority.

A wise man (Texan Bill) once told me the Texans wouldn't ever be built by the model that I would like. McNair prfers the corporate model. That model is rarely successful.
Like I said, I basically don't agree with any of your assertions.
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Old 04-05-2014   #55
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Like I said, I basically don't agree with any of your assertions.
What do you disagree with?

The holding GM/HC responsible/shouldn't have changed regimes after the 2010 season?

The talent on hand?

The corporate model?

The marketing dept?
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Old 04-05-2014   #56
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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Nope,

What I'm showing is the difference in how the Falcons are managed and the Texans. The Falcons were 3-13 and have a ton of $$$$ to spend in FA and have added major FA acquisitions and will have a high draft pick.

The Texans were up against the cap, couldn't make many moves and have to rely on a GM that missed on two 3rd rd picks in last yrs draft to fill 5/6 huge holes on the team.
eh... you just caught us at a bad time. We may go 9-7 next season & have a butt load of money to spend. The Falcons having money to spend in 2014 & going 3-13 had more to do with chance than anything else. They might go 4-12 next season & have no money.

So I guess by this conversation, you don't agree with making Jj Watt the highest paid defensive player in history?
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Old 04-05-2014   #57
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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What do you disagree with?

The holding GM/HC responsible/shouldn't have changed regimes after the 2010 season?

The talent on hand?

The corporate model?

The marketing dept?
I don't agree that he's cheap. We wouldn't have had one of the largest coaching staffs in the NFL for several years if he was so cheap. I think he's paid good money for coaches/trainers/scouts.

I don't agree that it was a bad thing that he held on to Rick/Gary after the 2010 season. That ended up with the most successful two years in our franchises history. There was nothing wrong with that decision no matter how you want to spin it. The 2-14 season is a totally separate thing to me. And yes, you could have ended up with MUCH worse because you could have ended up not having a single winning season in that three year span and you could definitely not have had a season where you started 11-1 and you could definitely not have had a season where you were 1 injury away from a damned good shot at the Super Bowl.

I don't care about the Texans' Marketing and PR department. Even if we have the greatest marketing department in the world (which I'm not so sure we do), that has no bearing at all on whether McNair wants to field a winner or not. Frankly, if McNair was the cheapskate you say he is, he wouldn't have the #1 marketing department because he wouldn't see the value in it.

You say you don't hate the man and yet you take every possibly opportunity to say unfounded things about him. Anything that goes wrong is an indication of what an a$$ he is... according to you. There are a lot of owners out there who are really crappy and really screw up their teams and I don't see McNair anywhere close to that group. I see him as a guy who's really trying to take a calm and balanced approach to managing his team and who's really trying to make it a winner.

That's just the way I see it and I know, like I said, that you don't agree with anything I just said.
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Old 04-05-2014   #58
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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I think what we see in the NFL is that it's all about getting lucky. You have to have the right coaching staff with the right GM and the right QB and then, things have to bounce your way and you're still screwed if you get hit by injuries to the wrong guys.

The Patriots got lucky when their all-pro QB got injured and he was replaced by Tom Brady. They got lucky with the tuck rule. And then they won the SB. The next year, that team didn't even make the playoffs.

That "great" dynastic team of Belichik and Brady still hasn't been able to win a SB in the past 9 seasons.

The fans of NY have wanted to ditch Tom Coughlin many times. Eli Manning is not nearly the QB his brother is... but... given a little luck at the right time, they've won more SBs together than Peyton Manning has been able to win.

It's not just that McNair hasn't chosen the right guys (and gotten lucky), it's that it's extremely difficult to do and there is no easy/right answer. If there was some obviously right way to do it, more teams would win the SB more often.
It's not ALL about getting lucky, talent and ability still matter, but other than that distinction, I agree with every word.

Edit: It won't let me rep you, so MSR.
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Old 04-06-2014   #59
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

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I don't agree that he's cheap. We wouldn't have had one of the largest coaching staffs in the NFL for several years if he was so cheap. I think he's paid good money for coaches/trainers/scouts.

I don't agree that it was a bad thing that he held on to Rick/Gary after the 2010 season. That ended up with the most successful two years in our franchises history. There was nothing wrong with that decision no matter how you want to spin it. The 2-14 season is a totally separate thing to me. And yes, you could have ended up with MUCH worse because you could have ended up not having a single winning season in that three year span and you could definitely not have had a season where you started 11-1 and you could definitely not have had a season where you were 1 injury away from a damned good shot at the Super Bowl.

I don't care about the Texans' Marketing and PR department. Even if we have the greatest marketing department in the world (which I'm not so sure we do), that has no bearing at all on whether McNair wants to field a winner or not. Frankly, if McNair was the cheapskate you say he is, he wouldn't have the #1 marketing department because he wouldn't see the value in it.

You say you don't hate the man and yet you take every possibly opportunity to say unfounded things about him. Anything that goes wrong is an indication of what an a$$ he is... according to you. There are a lot of owners out there who are really crappy and really screw up their teams and I don't see McNair anywhere close to that group. I see him as a guy who's really trying to take a calm and balanced approach to managing his team and who's really trying to make it a winner.

That's just the way I see it and I know, like I said, that you don't agree with anything I just said.
We just have different standards, 11-1 and beating the Bengals again (at home) doesn't mean crap to me. Getting embarrassed almost everytime the Texans play a national TV game means something to me. What did I say about the owner that is unfounded? To me the Texans on the field product has been an absolute failure. (To you it hasn't been. I respect that) The McNairs are the ones that hired a GM/HC with no experience and should take criticism for that.

That calm balanced approach that you like has gotten this franchise nowhere. It's time for a change in philosophy. I think hiring BOB was a good start, although I would like to have seen a HC with a winning NFL pedigree. It appears that BOB wont care how hard the kids try and will be more results oriented. Even with the albatross that is Rick Smith hanging around his neck.

So I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. However just because I criticize the McNair's doesn't mean I hate them. It just means I disagree with how they run their org. You don't disagree with them? How long do you think it will be before Bob McNair learns how to build a winning org. Is he on the right course? IYO, Marketing means $$$$ and you know that. It's the reason McNair spares no expense.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take for you to reconsider your position?
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Old 04-06-2014   #60
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Default Re: Owen Daniels agrees with Ravens

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
We just have different standards, 11-1 and beating the Bengals again (at home) doesn't mean crap to me. Getting embarrassed almost everytime the Texans play a national TV game means something to me. What did I say about the owner that is unfounded? To me the Texans on the field product has been an absolute failure. (To you it hasn't been. I respect that) The McNairs are the ones that hired a GM/HC with no experience and should take criticism for that.

That calm balanced approach that you like has gotten this franchise nowhere. It's time for a change in philosophy. I think hiring BOB was a good start, although I would like to have seen a HC with a winning NFL pedigree. It appears that BOB wont care how hard the kids try and will be more results oriented. Even with the albatross that is Rick Smith hanging around his neck.

So I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. However just because I criticize the McNair's doesn't mean I hate them. It just means I disagree with how they run their org. You don't disagree with them? How long do you think it will be before Bob McNair learns how to build a winning org. Is he on the right course? IYO, Marketing means $$$$ and you know that. It's the reason McNair spares no expense.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take for you to reconsider your position?
If having back-to-back seasons with double digit wins and at least 1 playoff victory is failure, then there is not a single franchise that can live up to your standard for more than a season or two. You have to consider the Patriots a terrible franchise because they haven't won a SB in almost a decade. The Ravens didn't make the playoffs last year and they had 12 years between SBs, fire Ozzie. Would you have given Cowher 14 years to win a SB?

How many years are you going to give OB to win a SB? 2? 3? Are you going to fire him after 3 years if all he has is 1 playoff appearance? And then how many years are you going to give the next guy? And then the guy after that? With your philosophy, you're going to be changing coaches every two to three years.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take you to reconsider YOUR position?
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