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View Poll Results: How do you grade the first selection in the first round?
A 23 28.75%
B 31 38.75%
C 9 11.25%
D 2 2.50%
F 15 18.75%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-23-2014   #181
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4. If he designs a defense that takes JJ and Clowney and then maximizes their effectiveness, I'm good with it.

But if we take Clowney and then try to stuff him into a standard 3-4, we're going to waste him and our defense is going to suffer.
Surely you don't think Crennel makes a 2-gap downlineman out of Watt, so he's already gonna have to make some big modifications to his defense to maximize JJs abilities/skills unless you see JJ as potentially a standup LB ? JJ is a much more challenging player to utilize in his current defense than Clowney is because Clowney is more athletic and versatile than Watt.
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Old 03-23-2014   #182
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
So what do we get when we mix blue and red ? Purple ?
OK, so of the non-QB positions I would assign only pure blue-chip rankings to OLT and pass-rusher, but I'll give WR and CBs a purple-chip ranking with a decidedly bluish tinge. But I'm thinkin Green in Cinci is like the only real high WR taken in the Draft in recent years, while there's been tons of OTs and a quite a few pass-rushers taken very high.
2002-2013 top 3 draft picks

QB - 13
OT - 6
WR - 5
DE - 5

If you are feeling like parsing colors it is clearly QB alone as blue and OT/WR/DE as purple.
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Old 03-23-2014   #183
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Actually, Smith only drafted 9 3rd round picks. I think you're including 2006, which was picked by Casserly.

Also, you're not including Earl Mitchell, whom was a solid starter for us last season... and he was signed by Miami to be a starter for them. He wasn't re-signed here because he no longer fit the system. There's also Jacoby, whom is a solid 3rd receiver and pro-bowl kick returner.

According to this report by the Huddle Report, which was coincidentally done by Casserly. 3rd round picks are expected to start by their 3rd year and has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter.

So it seems Rick is kind of average and not "pathetic".

Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.

Your right I was including 2006, my mistake. Ok it's 2 out of 9 3rd round picks on the roster and only 1 is a starter.

I didn't include Earl Mitchell or Jacoby Jones because they are no longer Texans.

Oh trust me I blame the team doctors plenty, but are they just rubber stamping what the Texans want to hear or are they telling the Texans the truth. I've also been around alot of Dr.'s and just because you graduated med school doesn't mean your smart. No offense intended CND.
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Old 03-23-2014   #184
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Your right I was including 2006, my mistake. Ok it's 2 out of 9 3rd round picks on the roster and only 1 is a starter.

I didn't include Earl Mitchell or Jacoby Jones because they are no longer Texans.
Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:

Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.
New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.
San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.

Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.

Not seeing the disparity so far.
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Old 03-23-2014   #185
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
2002-2013 top 3 draft picks

QB - 13
OT - 6
WR - 5
DE - 5

If you are feeling like parsing colors it is clearly QB alone as blue and OT/WR/DE as purple.
As I said, "non-QB positions" that are blue chip. Also, I said "pass-rushers" which would include not just DEs, but also LBs who were edge rushers in college or projected to be 3-4 OLB/edge-rushers in the NFL and also some DTs who were drafted in large part for their ability to rush the QB. A good example would be Ndamukong Suh who had double digit sacks at Nebraska and then in the NFL. And you went back like 11 or 12 years which is a long time in the rapidly changing NFL, but looking back just 5 or 6 years, besides Green the only real high WR selection was Blackmon, the former OSU WR who Jacksonsville took a couple years ago.
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Old 03-23-2014   #186
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
As I said, "non-QB positions" that are blue chip. Also, I said "pass-rushers" which would include not just DEs, but also LBs who were edge rushers in college or projected to be 3-4 OLB/edge-rushers in the NFL and also some DTs who were drafted in large part for their ability to rush the QB. A good example would be Ndamukong Suh who had double digit sacks at Nebraska and then in the NFL. And you went back like 11 or 12 years which is a long time in the rapidly changing NFL, but looking back just 5 or 6 years, besides Green the only real high WR selection was Blackmon, the former OSU WR who Jacksonsville took a couple years ago.
Now you are clearly obfuscating. You don't get to lump the entire front seven together and call it a blue chip position. That's beyond ridiculous. You're wrong both on how teams draft WRs and how they pay them. Translation - they are only non-blue chippers in your world.
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Old 03-23-2014   #187
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:

Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.
New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.
San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.

Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.

Not seeing the disparity so far.
Show me who the starters are. Just because you were a top draft pick on a 2-14 team doesn't mean you are a great/good football player.
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Old 03-23-2014   #188
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Show me who the starters are. Just because you were a top draft pick on a 2-14 team doesn't mean you are a great/good football player.
If you don't know the starters you have no basis for the assertion.

I'm not going to play "let's keep moving the bar."
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Old 03-23-2014   #189
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?
Ummm... maybe get the equivalent of Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt (later Carl Banks) to help out Cushing at LB so Clowney can show us how much he's like LT. Then get Leonard Marshall-type to help J.J. Watt at DE. Oh and maybe a Jim Burt type at NT too.

And even with this cast of characters on D and with Belchick, Crennel, and Parcells as coaches they still finished 3-12-1 in 1983. I;m gonna file that season under "stuff happens" since three years later they won the Super Bowl.
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Old 03-23-2014   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:



Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.

New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.

San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.



Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.



Not seeing the disparity so far.

My point exactly. Fans expectations of draft picks panning out is a bit high.


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Old 03-23-2014   #191
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If you don't know the starters you have no basis for the assertion.

I'm not going to play "let's keep moving the bar."
Not moving the bar just curious to see a comparisoms. I've got a feeling that I know the answer but am too lazy to do the research. Point is not all starters are created equal.
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Old 03-23-2014   #192
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Ummm... maybe get the equivalent of Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt (later Carl Banks) to help out Cushing at LB so Clowney can show us how much he's like LT. Then get Leonard Marshall-type to help J.J. Watt at DE. Oh and maybe a Jim Burt type at NT too.

And even with this cast of characters on D and with Belchick, Crennel, and Parcells as coaches they still finished 3-12-1 in 1983. I;m gonna file that season under "stuff happens" since three years later they won the Super Bowl.
I thought they finished 3-12-1 and got the 2nd pick in that draft. (Selecting Taylor) George Rodgers was selected 1st for New Orleans by Bum.

If Taylor were available today do you think McNair would let BOB/Rick pick Taylor? I think not and there in lies the problem with the Texans on the field product.
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Old 03-23-2014   #193
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I thought they finished 3-12-1 and got the 2nd pick in that draft. (Selecting Taylor) George Rodgers was selected 1st for New Orleans by Bum.

If Taylor were available today do you think McNair would let BOB/Rick pick Taylor? I think not and there in lies the problem with the Texans on the field product.
I wasn't aware of any LT issues until after he came into the league. McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues. Why not just get past this? I don't really see how this has hurt this team, overall.
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Old 03-23-2014   #194
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues.
Even this is questionable as any kind of absolute prohibition of anyone who isn't squeaky clean. Travis Johnson and Jerome Mathis both had college misconduct issues. Okoye was rumored to have tested positive for pot and of course the Cushing PED rumors.
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Old 03-23-2014   #195
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I wasn't aware of any LT issues until after he came into the league. McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues. Why not just get past this? I don't really see how this has hurt this team, overall.
It limits the pool and I've got it on good authority that McNair also wouldn't let Rick/Gary have the player they wanted to pick because of character concerns.

Why can I not get past this? Because I don't believe McNair's model is a winning model.
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Old 03-23-2014   #196
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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OK, but Crennel used Tamba Hali as a passing rushing OLB just a few years ago. Offenses haven't evolved that much since then.
But that defense wasn't very good. With Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

RAC has to figure out something different than what he did in KC.
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Old 03-23-2014   #197
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Surely you don't think Crennel makes a 2-gap downlineman out of Watt, so he's already gonna have to make some big modifications to his defense to maximize JJs abilities/skills unless you see JJ as potentially a standup LB ? JJ is a much more challenging player to utilize in his current defense than Clowney is because Clowney is more athletic and versatile than Watt.
Think about that.

He's already got one guy that he's going to have to make some changes to accommodate IF he goes with the defense that he's most comfortable with. Should we add another guy that doesn't fit his base scheme on top of it? Or is RAC going to go with a totally different scheme to incorporate both guys?

There are two basic types of coaches: those who build schemes based on their personnel and those who find personnel to fit what they like.

When Wade came in, there was a hullaballoo about switching from 4-3 to 3-4. But with Wade's 3-4, the 4-3 personnel we had were a pretty good fit. Now we're going from a 3-4 to a 3-4 but because of the change of concept, we don't have the right personnel.

So what is RAC going to do? He's let our penetrating NT's go and he looks to be replacing them with space-eater NTs. That looks like he's transitioning to his standard base instead of building a defense around our current personnel.

But we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 03-23-2014   #198
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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But that defense wasn't very good. With Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

RAC has to figure out something different than what he did in KC.
Huh? Crennel came in to KC in 2010, and the defense went from 30th to 14th. The next year, 2011, the Chiefs defense ranked 11th. In 2012, the defense went back down to 20th. But, the entire team fell apart that year (sound familiar) on its way to a 2-14 record.

I don't get the attempt at boxing in Crennel's defensive approach. As least in regards to having a pass rusher. When Crennel has possessed a premier pass rusher, he's tried to utilize him.
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Old 03-23-2014   #199
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Why can I not get past this? Because I don't believe McNair's model is a winning model.
I don't think you have any proof that bringing in guys with character issues is a winning model. I know it didn't do the Bengals any good when they led the league in player suspensions.
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Old 03-24-2014   #200
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Huh? Crennel came in to KC in 2010, and the defense went from 30th to 14th. The next year, 2011, the Chiefs defense ranked 11th. In 2012, the defense went back down to 20th. But, the entire team fell apart that year (sound familiar) on its way to a 2-14 record.

I don't get the attempt at boxing in Crennel's defensive approach. As least in regards to having a pass rusher. When Crennel has possessed a premier pass rusher, he's tried to utilize him.
I don't consider 14th, 11th, and 20th to be very good. It's just OK.

How many sacks did those defenses get? They did... OK. Hali did pretty good (with 14.5, then 12, then 9 sacks). They were ranked 10th in sacks in 2010 but they were tied for 27th in sacks with only 29 all season in 2011.

So its not like he's unleashed some sort of monster defense in KC.

I'm hoping for the best but it's not like he's created stifling defenses everywhere he's gone.
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