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View Poll Results: How do you grade the first selection in the first round?
A 23 28.75%
B 31 38.75%
C 9 11.25%
D 2 2.50%
F 15 18.75%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-23-2014   #161
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position.
So now it's ST & RT? Thanks to the new CBA, the only positions you would not select is ST & RT?

Then I guess your crystal ball has shown you Duane Brown playing at an all pro level through the next 5 years. I know he's signed through 2018, but even his 2018 cap number is lower than this years transition tag number for OL.

I understand one of them won't be thrilled that they're not getting the attention of an NFL star... but maybe we can get him a ribbon.
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Old 03-23-2014   #162
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The 2 best players are Robinson/Clowney. IMHO
I think Watkins is easily in that mix and TK's argument makes much more sense for him than OT IMO.

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So now it's ST & RT? Thanks to the new CBA, the only positions you would not select is ST & RT?
I wouldn't rule out a RT if they were clearly sitting on top all alone by a significant margin. That is not the case this year.

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Then I guess your crystal ball has shown you Duane Brown playing at an all pro level through the next 5 years.
I made no predictions thank you.

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I understand one of them won't be thrilled that they're not getting the attention of an NFL star... but maybe we can get him a ribbon.
Maybe you can sell your glib wit to them as recompense for being a $6 mil per year player instead of $12 mil per year.
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Old 03-23-2014   #163
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO.
Actually, Smith only drafted 9 3rd round picks. I think you're including 2006, which was picked by Casserly.

Also, you're not including Earl Mitchell, whom was a solid starter for us last season... and he was signed by Miami to be a starter for them. He wasn't re-signed here because he no longer fit the system. There's also Jacoby, whom is a solid 3rd receiver and pro-bowl kick returner.

According to this report by the Huddle Report, which was coincidentally done by Casserly. 3rd round picks are expected to start by their 3rd year and has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter.

So it seems Rick is kind of average and not "pathetic".

Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.
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Old 03-23-2014   #164
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.
CnD did not tell us to not draft Williams, I don't remember if he raised concern about the knee before the draft. It wasn't until after he was in camp that the issue of his knee came up. When it was reported that Williams would undergo Microfracture surgery to repair his knee was when CnD flagged concern.
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Old 03-23-2014   #165
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.

It would be like having Jj Watt & JaDaveon Clowney in the same defensive front 7, only better.
Clowney and Watt might very well have equivalent value in the front 7, but the LT is always gonna be more valuable and more critical to the team than the RT, so that's an apples to oranges analogy.
But for whatever reason thunderkyss, I think I'm now resigned to the fact that you've got franchise LT on your brain and will leave it at that. For now.
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Old 03-23-2014   #166
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I think Watkins is easily in that mix and TK's argument makes much more sense for him than OT IMO.
Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.
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Old 03-23-2014   #167
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.
I don't make that exclusion and I drop Clowney a bit because I'm concerned about his work ethic and motivation.

So, for me, it's Watkins/Robinson/Clowney and then a sharp drop off to Mack/Matthews/Barr and then another drop off to everyone else.

I'd go Watkins but I don't expect the FO to look at it that way. I'm hoping they go Robinson and I'd prefer Clowney over the other guys.
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Old 03-23-2014   #168
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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No, only San Francisco.
That seems to have worked out pretty well for them. The Texans org could probably learn a thing or 2. The 49ers fixed their OL by drafting these guys and taking a later rd flyer on a troubled but talented Alex Boone. Then they got Kaepernick.

Has Rick learned his lessons?
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Old 03-23-2014   #169
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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That seems to have worked out pretty well for them. The Texans org could probably learn a thing or 2. The 49ers fixed their OL by drafting these guys and taking a later rd flyer on a troubled but talented Alex Boone. Then they got Kaepernick.

Has Rick learned his lessons?
This is why I've got no problem with Robinson or with an OT at 2-1. You get the best guys you can get and you solidify that line.
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Old 03-23-2014   #170
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.
When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.

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That seems to have worked out pretty well for them.
Yeah, I'm sure the Niners success (or lack thereof under your usual definition) is built on a 1st rounder at RT more than oh say, Harbaugh, Navorro, Reid, Whitner, Brooks, Smith, etc.

And by the way, the HC and GM who made those OL picks are no longer part of the team and the success has come under a new administration. They were 6-10 with their 3 1st rounders OL. Way too many dots in that connection.
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Old 03-23-2014   #171
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I don't make that exclusion and I drop Clowney a bit because I'm concerned about his work ethic and motivation.

So, for me, it's Watkins/Robinson/Clowney and then a sharp drop off to Mack/Matthews/Barr and then another drop off to everyone else.

I'd go Watkins but I don't expect the FO to look at it that way. I'm hoping they go Robinson and I'd prefer Clowney over the other guys.
I just don't see Clowney for us. He's a freak of a player as a 4-3 DE. Totally unknown as a 3-4 OLB, & undersized as a 3-4 DE.

Watkins in the first... I can live with that.
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Old 03-23-2014   #172
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I just don't see Clowney for us. He's a freak of a player as a 4-3 DE. Totally unknown as a 3-4 OLB, & undersized as a 3-4 DE.

Watkins in the first... I can live with that.
The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4. If he designs a defense that takes JJ and Clowney and then maximizes their effectiveness, I'm good with it.

But if we take Clowney and then try to stuff him into a standard 3-4, we're going to waste him and our defense is going to suffer.
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Old 03-23-2014   #173
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4.
Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?
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Old 03-23-2014   #174
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.



Yeah, I'm sure the Niners success (or lack thereof under your usual definition) is built on a 1st rounder at RT more than oh say, Harbaugh, Navorro, Reid, Whitner, Brooks, Smith, etc.

And by the way, the HC and GM who made those OL picks are no longer part of the team and the success has come under a new administration. They were 6-10 with their 3 1st rounders OL. Way too many dots in that connection.
Facts are that the 49ers built their OL 1st by using high picks. Before they added any of the guys you mention. Then they added 3 difference makers a yr in the draft and used trades Boldin and FA to supplement their roster.

Hopefully the Texans philosophy will become more like the 49ers under Rick/BOB. If not things will remain much the same.
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Old 03-23-2014   #175
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?
That's what RAC needs to figure out. If they take Clowney, RAC needs to figure out how to incorporate him and JJ into a defense that maximizes both of their abilities and doesn't have some inherent and easy-to-exploit weakness.

In general, you want OLBs that can cover... at least a little. If you take Clowney out of the coverage scheme, then you're basically left with a guy that you know is going to be rushing and you're probably going to be vulnerable to flares, screens, and draws.

LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.
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Old 03-23-2014   #176
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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That's what RAC needs to figure out. If they take Clowney, RAC needs to figure out how to incorporate him and JJ into a defense that maximizes both of their abilities and doesn't have some inherent and easy-to-exploit weakness.

In general, you want OLBs that can cover... at least a little. If you take Clowney out of the coverage scheme, then you're basically left with a guy that you know is going to be rushing and you're probably going to be vulnerable to flares, screens, and draws.

LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.
Do you think Clowney can be a better version of Aldon Smith? If so you pick Clowney.
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Old 03-23-2014   #177
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Do you think Clowney can be a better version of Aldon Smith? If so you pick Clowney.
The question is "can" or "will". I think he can be but I think he won't be. So I wouldn't take him. I know we don't agree on that.
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Old 03-23-2014   #178
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.
OK, but Crennel used Tamba Hali as a passing rushing OLB just a few years ago. Offenses haven't evolved that much since then.
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Old 03-23-2014   #179
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

I was hoping there was something positive posted in regards to Brennan Williams progress/rehab that would shape our draft strategy
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Old 03-23-2014   #180
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.
So what do we get when we mix blue and red ? Purple ?
OK, so of the non-QB positions I would assign only pure blue-chip rankings to OLT and pass-rusher, but I'll give WR and CBs a purple-chip ranking with a decidedly bluish tinge. But I'm thinkin Green in Cinci is like the only real high WR taken in the Draft in recent years, while there's been tons of OTs and a quite a few pass-rushers taken very high.
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