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View Poll Results: How do you grade the first selection in the first round?
A 23 28.75%
B 31 38.75%
C 9 11.25%
D 2 2.50%
F 15 18.75%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2014   #141
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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
If you have to identify one decision that contributed the most to getting Kubiak fired, it's this one. As bad as the RT position already was, he shouldn't have rolled the dice on this player. That's not just hindsight -- we all knew it at the time.

Then consider that the next pick was Sam Montgomery.

In all fairness, we have no idea Kubes' stance on Williams, or even Montgomery. We also have no idea what kind of bad info the team doctor's gave him.


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Old 03-22-2014   #142
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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The surgery wasn't done two years ago. He's been dealing with the same knee injury since before his senior season, it's never been 100% right. He was healthy enough to play as a senior. Then he tore his shoulder & sat out the final four games of his senior season.

We drafted him & the same knee started giving him problems... he had the microfracture surgery & here we are.
Furthermore, the shoulder surgery's effect on his performance was never tested in that his only participation at all last year was in the first 5 days of training camp's non-contact team drills before being totally shut down.
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Old 03-22-2014   #143
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

So, we wasted both our 3rd rounders last year. Great.
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Old 03-22-2014   #144
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
So, we wasted both our 3rd rounders last year. Great.
We gambled on both & so far, looks like we came up snake eyes.

Still, the book isn't closed on Brennan... just not likely he'll ever be 100%. He might be able to play RT & not have an issue with his knee, or at least be able to manage it. If you ever hear that he's having knee surgery or having his knee drained... you can pretty much close the book on him.

Still, if I were the Texans, I'm bringing the best OT I can find into camp & seeing what happens. We've spent a third & two 6th round picks on the position recently & we're spinning our wheels.

I'd like to aim high, if I miss the mark, I still hit the dang target.
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Old 03-22-2014   #145
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.
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Old 03-22-2014   #146
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.
It's two spots and one of the upgrades is probably already on the roster. It's a huge problem but not a huge fix.
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Old 03-22-2014   #147
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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It's two spots and one of the upgrades is probably already on the roster. It's a huge problem but not a huge fix.
True... though I'd like to have the most dominant OL in the league, it's not necessary & a little unrealistic for 2014. We just need to be a step above pathetic which we were last season.

Three of 5 is not a bad starting spot & we'll see what Q's got soon enough.
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Old 03-22-2014   #148
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We gambled on both & so far, looks like we came up snake eyes.

Still, if I were the Texans, I'm bringing the best OT I can find into camp & seeing what happens. We've spent a third & two 6th round picks on the position recently & we're spinning our wheels.

I'd like to aim high, if I miss the mark, I still hit the dang target.
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Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.
How long are we gonna keep - as we say "poor boying" this fix instead of addressing it properly and putting it behind us? The fix is staring us in the face at 1-1... just re-saying.



For you non-Southern folks, "poor boying" is when you try and patch up something with duct tape, used chewing gum, and baling wire when a good welding job is what you really need.
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Old 03-22-2014   #149
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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How long are we gonna keep - as we say "poor boying" this fix instead of addressing it properly and putting it behind us? The fix is staring us in the face at 1-1... just re-saying.
Some of us don't think every option other than a 1st round pick is poor boying.
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Old 03-23-2014   #150
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Second Opinion Brennan Williams starts around 4:33
Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO.
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Old 03-23-2014   #151
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Some of us don't think every option other than a 1st round pick is poor boying.
My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).

Maybe we can reconstruct a solid O-line with the guys on the roster if Wade Smith returns to form and Quessenberry blossoms and Ben Jones steps up and becomes solid at OG; but I'd go ahead and hedge my bets and make the investment on OT by drafting Robinson.
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Old 03-23-2014   #152
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).

Maybe we can reconstruct a solid O-line with the guys on the roster if Wade Smith returns to form and Quessenberry blossoms and Ben Jones steps up and becomes solid at OG; but I'd go ahead and hedge my bets and make the investment on OT by drafting Robinson.
You just talked about a whole bunch of positions other than RT. There is zero reason to believe RT cannot be so drastically upgraded it becomes a strength on the OL in the 2nd round or dramatically upgraded in the 3rd or for that matter NFL average in the 4th. None, since 1st round picks at RT are a rarity and top half of the 1st round picks at RT are Big Foot - frequently discussed, almost never seen. The only reason I think Robinson is a consideration at all is because the plan wouldn't be to play him at LT for long. As a need pick for RT it's spending too much. That plan falls apart unless you can keep both Robinson and Brown. I'm not going to beotch and moan if they do it, but I think it's a bad idea.

As far as LG goes and Quess, Jones, etc. all this crud about developing players is just draft forum mental masturbation unless you actually stick them in the game after developing them. Year 1 - draft X, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. Year 2 - we can't count on X, he hasn't shown anything, we need to draft Y, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. Year 3 - we can't count on Y, he hasn't shown anything, we need to draft Z, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. You don't have 6th round Chris Myers as a strength on your team if you never stick him in the game.
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Old 03-23-2014   #153
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).
Some people believe with the new CBA, since the money isn't all out of whack, you can draft pretty much any position of need at #1 overall. Prior to the new agreement, it only made sense to use that pick on a franchise LT, CB, DE, or QB... since franchise players at those positions made the kind of money top 10 players were being paid.

Eric Fisher signed a deal that paid him ~$5M/yr... which is decent money for a starter at RT. It will be even when he is plugged in at LT next season.

What I don't get is why anyone would think the guy we draft will be a RT only in the NFL. They already know he'll never be better than Duane Brown. Duane Brown who was a "reach" to play the position in a "traditional" blocking system.

I'm not saying the system makes the man... but adding strength to a position of strength makes too much sense. If he ends up playing RT because Brown is a better LT... eh.. we don't know how good Robinson is or could be.

But if he's so good that he wins the job over Duane Brown, imagine how good he must be? Imagine how good we'll be if Duane Brown is the second best player on our OL.
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Old 03-23-2014   #154
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Some people believe with the new CBA, since the money isn't all out of whack, you can draft pretty much any position of need at #1 overall. Prior to the new agreement, it only made sense to use that pick on a franchise LT, CB, DE, or QB... since franchise players at those positions made the kind of money top 10 players were being paid.

Eric Fisher signed a deal that paid him ~$5M/yr... which is decent money for a starter at RT. It will be even when he is plugged in at LT next season.

What I don't get is why anyone would think the guy we draft will be a RT only in the NFL. They already know he'll never be better than Duane Brown. Duane Brown who was a "reach" to play the position in a "traditional" blocking system.

I'm not saying the system makes the man... but adding strength to a position of strength makes too much sense. If he ends up playing RT because Brown is a better LT... eh.. we don't know how good Robinson is or could be.

But if he's so good that he wins the job over Duane Brown, imagine how good he must be? Imagine how good we'll be if Duane Brown is the second best player on our OL.
Last year the Chiefs drafted Eric Fischer with their 1.1 knowing they would need him to play LT this year after Brandon Albert left in FA, and the Jags also in 2013 drafted a top LT prospect in Luke Joeckel with their 1.2 knowing they'd need him to play left tackle after Eugene Monroe also left them in FA, though he was actually traded late in 2013.
The Texans have no such problem as Duane Brown is under contract with the team for 4 more years, so Thunderkyss why are so intent on the Texans having not one but two franchise left tackles on their roster ? I mean it's not like we have no holes in our starting lineup, because we've got lots of other issues that need attention ASAP. Some people say we are better than a 2-14 team ? Well I dunno about that, but I know based on last year we are losers and need lots of new blood, but we don't need anotther franchise left tackle because we've already got one.
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Old 03-23-2014   #155
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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The Texans have no such problem as Duane Brown is under contract with the team for 4 more years, so Thunderkyss why are so intent on the Texans having not one but two franchise left tackles on their roster ? I mean it's not like we have no holes in our starting lineup, because we've got lots of other issues that need attention ASAP. Some people say we are better than a 2-14 team ? Well I dunno about that, but I know based on last year we are losers and need lots of new blood, but we don't need anotther franchise left tackle because we've already got one.
The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.

It would be like having Jj Watt & JaDaveon Clowney in the same defensive front 7, only better.
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Old 03-23-2014   #156
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.
A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position. Fine he is cheap now, and then what? He isn't going to stay happy at RT even for his rookie contract because you are hurting his market value for his 2nd contract (as well as possible bonuses on his rookie contract). He's very unlikely to get any pro bowl or all pro recognition because that almost all goes to LTs.

This isn't like DE, WR or CB where you can have two stars on one team. RTs are largely unrecognized. This situation is also not like any where the clear plan was not to have both on the roster for more than 1-2 years. Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?
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Old 03-23-2014   #157
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO.
First off, you're adding Casserly to Smith.

But whenever someone makes a statement like this, I always wonder how true it is. When I look at some other teams, I see the same sort of production we got out of ours. Good teams get lucky on those later round draft picks but they also swing and miss a lot, too. Sure, Navorro Bowman, Frank Gore, Jermichael Finley, and guys like that are 3rd rounders but there are a lot of guys drafted in the 3rd round in the past 10 years that aren't playing anymore. The average career is only something like 2-3 years.

But I did notice something interesting.

Remember how great our draft was in 2006? The Broncos KILLED it in 2006. Besides Jay Cutler and Tony Schefler in the 1st and 2nd, they got Brandon Marshall, Domenik Hixon, Elvis Dumerville, and Chris Kuper in the 4th and 5th rounds.
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Old 03-23-2014   #158
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO.
Yet somehow Rick still has a job.
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Old 03-23-2014   #159
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?
No, only San Francisco.
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Old 03-23-2014   #160
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position. Fine he is cheap now, and then what? He isn't going to stay happy at RT even for his rookie contract because you are hurting his market value for his 2nd contract (as well as possible bonuses on his rookie contract). He's very unlikely to get any pro bowl or all pro recognition because that almost all goes to LTs.

This isn't like DE, WR or CB where you can have two stars on one team. RTs are largely unrecognized. This situation is also not like any where the clear plan was not to have both on the roster for more than 1-2 years. Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?
The 2 best players are Robinson/Clowney. IMHO

Hopefully the Texans org has learned from the past and will select the best player 1-1. It looks like Bortles will go 1-1. Hopefully he develops into what BOB thinks he can be.
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