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Old 03-17-2014   #2101
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
Honestly, I don't think that's true...

But I think that's a lot of people's perception.

You say one thing negative or positive about any of these guys and you get labled as a lover or a hater.
I think it is true. I think a lot of people love Bridgewater but don't even know exactly why. His true value is in a talent that is intangible (his brain).

And I think a lot of people really don't like Bridgewater but don't know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
The Jags link was driving me nuts. It's great if you only wanted to see his footwork and delivery angle. They really needed to pan back some.

Or you're on the fence as to whether he's worth 1:1 (pretty much how I feel about the entire crop). Put another way, there's 5 or 6 guys I'd be thrilled to get at 1:15.
I'm with you. I think he is the best shot in this draft at a franchise QB, but he's not a guarantee and there are some other pretty nice options available to us.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2102
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
One thing is pretty clear around here, you either love Bridgewater or you hate him.
What do you gotta say about his pro day bro? To be honest, I believe there are less than 3 people in this message board that can watch stuff like this and give an accurate assessment. I believe you're one of them.

FWIW - I am not one either, and don't think I'm calling anyone here out, I just think most people are full of S and go off of stupid reporters that are also full of S.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2103
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
Honestly, I don't think that's true...

But I think that's a lot of people's perception.

You say one thing negative or positive about any of these guys and you get labled as a lover or a hater.
^^^^ Yes. This.

I've got a lot of doubts about Bridgewater. I'm definitely not sold on him at 1-1 although if we're going to go QB at 1-1 in this draft, I think he's the guy.

I don't love him. I don't hate him. I'd prefer to draft several other people at 1-1 before him.

But even so, that doesn't make that throw a "throwing it up for grabs" throw.

This whole black and white thing about players and opinions is really intellectually lazy. "You don't agree with me, therefore... you're BIASED AND YOU'RE A _____ (fill in the blank with lover or hater.)" I hate that.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2104
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
What do you gotta say about his pro day bro? To be honest, I believe there are less than 3 people in this message board that can watch stuff like this and give an accurate assessment. I believe you're one of them.

FWIW - I am not one either, and don't think I'm calling anyone here out, I just think most people are full of S and go off of stupid reporters that are also full of S.
I thought he looked meh. But I also literally do not care. Tom Brady also looked meh when he worked out in shorts. Then you have guys like Gabbert who look amazing when throwing against air but just can't play the position mentally. Here's a fun read:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...bbert-pro-day/

Quote:
I took a limited and informal poll among some NFL personnel evaluators and asked them how Gabbert compared at this point in the pre-draft process to recent first-round quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford and Sam Bradford, both of whom went first overall? The consensus was that Gabbert, despite having relatively modest success as a collegiate starter, certainly measured up based on his pro day showing.
There is nothing exceptional about Bridgewater physically. And I think you can easily see that when he works out in shorts. What you can't see in this environment are the mental things, which is where he stands out and which are also the most important things a QB has to have at the next level.

In a pro day or combine setting all I'm looking for is to make sure that the guy really does have the physical skills that he appears to on tape. Bridgewater showed that. Everything else is on film. If you already know that Bridgewater is not an exceptional physical specimen then why would you knock him for not looking like one at his pro day?

Football is played in pads and too many guys base their evaluations on things that happen when the pads are off. Those guys also end up getting fired.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2105
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
That cold thing is bothering me...

I mean...it could be totally true...But still...
I'm serious when I say I think there's a problem around weight and/or food for him.

He played last year ~190 lbs. and looked fine to me.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2106
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
^^^^ Yes. This.

I've got a lot of doubts about Bridgewater. I'm definitely not sold on him at 1-1 although if we're going to go QB at 1-1 in this draft, I think he's the guy.

I don't love him. I don't hate him. I'd prefer to draft several other people at 1-1 before him.

But even so, that doesn't make that throw a "throwing it up for grabs" throw.

This whole black and white thing about players and opinions is really intellectually lazy. "You don't agree with me, therefore... you're BIASED AND YOU'RE A _____ (fill in the blank with lover or hater.)" I hate that.
Completely agree. I don't see any of these QB's in such a black and white manner. Each have issues. And at this point I still don't see any of them at 1-1 but if we reach for a QB I understand that as well. I feel more confident about a couple of others more than the QB's at that spot though.

Reports from this proday sure didn't change that feeling.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2107
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post

And I think a lot of people really don't like Bridgewater but don't know why.
I'm sure I come across as someone who doesn't like Bridgewater. I don't hate him.

I think I've been pretty straight forward saying I don't watch college football & rely on what the draftniks here & to a lesser extent those around the country say.

I do my little bit of youtube scouting, going so far as to watching a few complete games... still I admit nowhere near the work others have done.

If y'all say he's the best QB in this draft, I don't argue. Y'all have been watching him for 3 years.

At the same time, I know a little, or at least I believe I do. There are certain things that go into a QB grade, size being one of them. Level of competition another. I'm not enamored with his footwork, or anything about his technique... & everything I see has him graded as a mid 1st rounder at best. If there were a lack of talent in this class, I can see a top 10 pick, but so far, this draft has as much elite talent in it as most..... so that's not the case.

Another thing that gets me, is I don't understand how he can be graded so highly by most here, but then the other QBs are so far behind... doesn't make sense. The NFL combine grades looked a lot closer where Bortles got a 6.4 & McCarron got a 5.6 with several QBs in between. Not exactly the way I grade them, but the spread isn't as wide as the talk here would have you believe.

To me, the only one that has that extra something-something that would propel a mid 1st QB into the top 5 is Johnny Manziel, but I believe guys like him that go that high rarely works out... even though I wouldn't mind having a Michael Vick or Cam Newton type player right about now.

Intangibles count... I'm not saying otherwise, but surely you agree that someone like me can't grade intangibles after looking at them for what... 2 months now?

So if the Texans draft TeddyB, I hope y'all are right & I hope we're all right about Bill O'Brien... if we're not, then it don't matter who our QB is.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2108
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm sure I come across as someone who doesn't like Bridgewater. I don't hate him.

I think I've been pretty straight forward saying I don't watch college football & rely on what the draftniks here & to a lesser extent those around the country say.

I do my little bit of youtube scouting, going so far as to watching a few complete games... still I admit nowhere near the work others have done.

If y'all say he's the best QB in this draft, I don't argue. Y'all have been watching him for 3 years.

At the same time, I know a little, or at least I believe I do. There are certain things that go into a QB grade, size being one of them. Level of competition another. I'm not enamored with his footwork, or anything about his technique... & everything I see has him graded as a mid 1st rounder at best. If there were a lack of talent in this class, I can see a top 10 pick, but so far, this draft has as much elite talent in it as most..... so that's not the case.

Another thing that gets me, is I don't understand how he can be graded so highly by most here, but then the other QBs are so far behind... doesn't make sense. The NFL combine grades looked a lot closer where Bortles got a 6.4 & McCarron got a 5.6 with several QBs in between. Not exactly the way I grade them, but the spread isn't as wide as the talk here would have you believe.

To me, the only one that has that extra something-something that would propel a mid 1st QB into the top 5 is Johnny Manziel, but I believe guys like him that go that high rarely works out... even though I wouldn't mind having a Michael Vick or Cam Newton type player right about now.

Intangibles count... I'm not saying otherwise, but surely you agree that someone like me can't grade intangibles after looking at them for what... 2 months now?

So if the Texans draft TeddyB, I hope y'all are right & I hope we're all right about Bill O'Brien... if we're not, then it don't matter who our QB is.
I actually didn't have you in mind...for once.

I don't agree with a lot of your stances but I do respect your ability to give reasons for why you think what you think. Your stance on Bridgewater has never been hazy.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2109
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Another thing that gets me, is I don't understand how he can be graded so highly by most here, but then the other QBs are so far behind... doesn't make sense. The NFL combine grades looked a lot closer where Bortles got a 6.4 & McCarron got a 5.6 with several QBs in between. Not exactly the way I grade them, but the spread isn't as wide as the talk here would have you believe.
You're looking at those NFL Grades and you're thinking... oh... 5.6 is pretty close to a 6.4. But. It isn't.

A 7.0+ grade is a top-5 pick. Not many of those get handed out. In the 6.9-6.4 range, you've got guys going in the top 10. A 5.9-6.4 grade is a solid first round pick.

From 5.6-5.5 is a mid-third round to a second round pick. And then it's a log jam. 5.3 and 5.4 guys are probably 4th-5th round. 5.3-5.1 are 6-7th round guys.

Roughly speaking.

So that NFL 5.6 grade is closer to a 5.3 than to a 6.4 grade in a lot of ways.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2110
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

"Me personally, I don't get nervous because I trust myself, I'm confident in myself," Bridgewater said.
__________________________________________

Quote:
Sources from within the Louisville program told me they believe nerves crept in on Teddy Bridgewater today, which was a major factor in his disappointing performance. In the weeks leading up to pro-day, Bridgewater was hitting all the passes which were scripted during today's workout. Many are talking about Bridgewater's inaccuracy throwing on the move today, but my school source said it was never a real strength for the signal caller on Saturdays. The word leaving pro-day is "connecting the dots" (more on that later) Bridgewater ends up with the Oakland Raiders in round one.

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Old 03-17-2014   #2111
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I thought he looked meh. But I also literally do not care. Tom Brady also looked meh when he worked out in shorts. Then you have guys like Gabbert who look amazing when throwing against air but just can't play the position mentally. Here's a fun read:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...bbert-pro-day/



There is nothing exceptional about Bridgewater physically. And I think you can easily see that when he works out in shorts. What you can't see in this environment are the mental things, which is where he stands out and which are also the most important things a QB has to have at the next level.

In a pro day or combine setting all I'm looking for is to make sure that the guy really does have the physical skills that he appears to on tape. Bridgewater showed that. Everything else is on film. If you already know that Bridgewater is not an exceptional physical specimen then why would you knock him for not looking like one at his pro day?

Football is played in pads and too many guys base their evaluations on things that happen when the pads are off. Those guys also end up getting fired.
This is pretty much me and I've said so many times. The texans will personally work him out mentally and again physically private. I don't even watch pro days for the most part. I remember jake locker throwing all short route for a guy with a cannon because he had accuracy problems. I remember everyone in awe with jamarcus russell throwing darts 50 yds down the field. The qb has to be the smartset player on field and have to be able to ingest and know everyones assignment. That's been my thing with bridgewater,his football intelligence. We will see what the front office thinks one way or another
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Old 03-17-2014   #2112
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater



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Old 03-17-2014   #2113
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

I'm not terribly excited about Teddy Bridgewater. If the Texans end up drafting him I just feel like he'll become a big-time project. I feel the same way abour Johnny Manziel. I actually like Blake Bortles the most out of the three.

I don't even know if Teddy Bridgewater is going to be as good in the pros as a healthy Cam Newton or Robert Griffin III. I'd rather gamble on a quarterback in the second or third round, where guys like Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson were drafted.

Jimmy Garoppolo would be my dream choice at pick #33 if he's on the board.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2114
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Football is played in pads and too many guys base their evaluations on things that happen when the pads are off. Those guys also end up getting fired.
Boom.

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Old 03-17-2014   #2115
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
It's not really "throwing it up for grabs" when you put the ball in a position that only your WR can get it. Here, this is throwing it up for grabs:



Can you spot the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
If you don't think this pass isn't "throwing it up for grabs", I can't help you.

You guys made the mistake of bringing Manziel into this. Had you not, disaacks3 is likely to not call everyone TB lovers. You point out that Manziel is tossing it up for grabs, when he clearly is, and compare it to Bridgewater and disaacks3 has to defend his boy. Haters gonna hate, as he would say. What was it that icak called it? The Manziel Defense League?

Anyone who can't see the difference between these two throws is seriously biased. He is right in saying that every QB throws it up for grabs at some point. Some do more than others.

Last edited by TexansSeminole; 03-17-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2116
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You guys made the mistake of bringing Manziel into this. Had you not, disaacks3 is likely to not call everyone TB lovers. You point out that Manziel is tossing it up for grabs, when he clearly is, and compare it to Bridgewater and disaacks3 has to defend his boy. Haters gonna hate, as he would say. What was it that icak called it? The Manziel Defense League?

Anyone who can't see the difference between these two throws is seriously biased. He is right in saying that every QB throws it up for grabs at some point. Some do more than others.
Hmm. "My boy"? Try again. Manziel is a likely boom-or-bust player in the NFL. Bortles is an unpolished project. Bridgewater is the most Pro-ready, but it's hard to tell where his ceiling lies.

It's not about bringing in Manziel as you say, it's about calling one off-schedule successful play a great throw and another one blind luck. Neither pass shown had the HC jumping for joy when it was let go. All three top QB candidates have had some "unconventional, yet successful" plays. Those plays will be much tougher sells in the NFL.

Anyone who can't tell that both plays had healthy doses of luck involved is seriously biased. I've seen the Cincinatti play to Copeland picked apart by dozens of sites, the word "prayer" comes up about 40% of the time.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2117
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You're looking at those NFL Grades and you're thinking... oh... 5.6 is pretty close to a 6.4. But. It isn't.

A 7.0+ grade is a top-5 pick. Not many of those get handed out. In the 6.9-6.4 range, you've got guys going in the top 10. A 6.4-5.9 grade is a solid first round pick.
A 5.9-5.6 is a second round pick..... solid back-up, possible starter

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
From 5.6-5.5 is a mid-third round to a second round pick. And then it's a log jam. 5.3 and 5.4 guys are probably 4th-5th round. 5.3-5.1 are 6-7th round guys.

Roughly speaking.

So that NFL 5.6 grade is closer to a 5.3 than to a 6.4 grade in a lot of ways.
So for the group of QBs we're looking at, those grades say mid 1st to mid 2nd.... at least that's how I look at it. & they're close, as there isn't much separating them.

Bridgewater: uncanny pocket awareness & accuracy

Bortles: elite size

Manziel: Play makah

McCarron:

Pros:Elite size, good accuracy, good decision making, high to middle football IQ, decent mobility, major conference, major program, played under bright lights & delivered more times than not.

Cons: Played with too much talent on his team on both sides of the ball (Manziel was only surrounded by elite talent on the offensive side of the ball, Bridgewater had no talent on offense, but played with the #1 defense in NCAAF)
Again, my grades don't shake out like theirs, but the grouping is closer to what I've got.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2118
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
I'm serious when I say I think there's a problem around weight and/or food for him.

He played last year ~190 lbs. and looked fine to me.
I personally have a problem with the "recent cold" explanation. The problem as I see it comes more likely from another angle.

He actually played last year at ~188. At the NFL Combine he weighed in at 208 pounds........20 pounds heavier. Then at the Pro Day, he's 202.........down 6 pounds from the Combine, but still 12 pounds heavier than last year's playing weight.

So this would be my concern. You know that because of all that was made of his light weight, pre Combine, he would have placed major concentrated effort to increase it.........much more on muscle weight training....and more lax on the aerobics.........and therefore on the conditioning/performance. It may have been a major reason for him not wanting to do anything at the Combine except weigh in. Now for the Pro Day, the weight training would have to have been at least balanced out in order that it would not adversely affect performance..........performance for only ONE single outing. In adding back in more aerobics training, this could easily have accounted for his weight loss.

Now, during a NFL full season not only must your aerobics training activity be maintained, BUT it will naturally be INCREASED during playing time, not only during practices but especially regular game time.

And this is where I have a major question mark. With this anticipated shift in weight training:aerobics ratio, will Bridgewater be able to maintain the weight required playing in the NFL......and with it his mobility and strength.......and decent durability.

When we think of weight "problems" in new young NFL players, we typically think of players having problems keeping their weight down. However, just as concerning, if not more, is a player who cannot increase and/or maintain his weight at a level required to fulfill his role in the NFL.

As always, time will give us the answers. If holding the weight is a problem, for some fans, the answer cannot come too soon..........while for one team it may come too late.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2119
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Neither pass shown had the HC jumping for joy when it was let go.
When they reviewed the tape, I'm sure Sumlin was like, "Johnny... don't do that sht again!! I mean it this time!"

Where Strong was, "Excellent, just like we worked on in practice. If you're gonna chunk it, put it between our guy & the back of the endzone."

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Anyone who can't tell that both plays had healthy doses of luck involved is seriously biased.
The difference is that Bridgewater's luck was that his receiver located the ball & adjusted to it. Manziel's luck was that the other guy didn't get it first, heck, if they'd have knocked it down it would have been a net zero play for A&M.

But if it's 3rd & 1, it's like a punt. At least he didn't take a sack. On second down, or first, I'd rather he threw it away. If we're down & time's running out, what are you gonna do? His line, including Matthews, didn't do him no favors there.
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Old 03-17-2014   #2120
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Anyone who can't tell that both plays had healthy doses of luck involved is seriously biased.
I prefer to call it "magic". Don't tell me you don't believe in magic.
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