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Old 03-16-2014   #101
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Bob McNair is a dadgum genius when it comes to building energy companies and horse farms. When it comes to building an NFL football team Bob knows less than Jerry Jones.

You're right. He gave a loser-ass coach 8 years. That was a massive mistake in his part. He fixed it.


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Old 03-16-2014   #102
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Because Posey's issue isn't/wasn't a talent problem. It was an injury problem. We took a chance on him needing extra time to get into game shape & it appeared that gamble paid off, until he suffered another unrelated injury.
And his problem is STILL an injury problem.

TY Hilton came out as a rookie and he performed. Neither Posey nor Martin did. Remember how hard Kubiak & Schaub worked to get Martin into the mix at the beginning of that season? Do you remember all the quick slants Martin dropped? Hilton wasn't dropping passes; he was catching them. As a rookie, he responded better.

Sure. He could have been put into our offense and then suffered malaria and encephalitis and been a bust. But given his performance (and the fact that he ended up as the 2nd best receiver out of that draft class), he probably would have blossomed in our system as well because we saw that Martin was able to get opportunities.
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Old 03-16-2014   #103
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Sure. He could have been put into our offense and then suffered malaria and encephalitis and been a bust. But given his performance (and the fact that he ended up as the 2nd best receiver out of that draft class), he probably would have blossomed in our system as well because we saw that Martin was able to get opportunities.
Point taken. Still don't believe he was a better prospect than Posey. It's an injury problem, but not one he was likely to incur as it was totally unrelated to his previous injury.

Had he not been injured, Posey could have been what DeAndre was last season as I doubt we'd have drafted a WR in the first.
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Old 03-16-2014   #104
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Point taken. Still don't believe he was a better prospect than Posey. It's an injury problem, but not one he was likely to incur as it was totally unrelated to his previous injury.

Had he not been injured, Posey could have been what DeAndre was last season as I doubt we'd have drafted a WR in the first.
Devier's talented but two years in and he has 21 receptions; T.Y. Hilton has 132.

DeAndre had 52 his rookie season.

I know hindsight is 20-20 but if RS was banging the table for TY over Devier, history appears to have proved him right.
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Old 03-16-2014   #105
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Because Posey's issue isn't/wasn't a talent problem. It was an injury problem. We took a chance on him needing extra time to get into game shape & it appeared that gamble paid off, until he suffered another unrelated injury.

The way TPN put it, you'd think Hilton is a better talent than Posey & right now, we don't know that.

There is no guarantee that Hilton would have seen as much playing time as he did in Indy. Chances are that he wouldn't, buried behind the great Kevin Walter & we'd be crying about our lack of depth at the WR position with Hilton on the depth chart.
But why do you think Hilton would have suffered the same injury? Or that he couldn't have beaten out keyshawn? He wouldn't have needed that extra time from having a year off
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Old 03-16-2014   #106
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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But why do you think Hilton would have suffered the same injury? Or that he couldn't have beaten out keyshawn? He wouldn't have needed that extra time from having a year off
He might have beaten out Keyshawn, but he wasn't going to beat out Walter. I don't think Kubiak would have given him the opportunities. But TPN has a good point, Martin had plenty of opportunities to make plays. If Hilton would have got those opportunities he'd have been a star. But we still would have stuck to our two TE sets, with KW as WR2

I don't think he would have suffered the same injury, just throwing it out there because that's what stopped Posey. An unrelated injury that could have happened to anyone. I don't think we can hold it against Rick Smith that Posey was injured & Hilton was not.
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Old 03-16-2014   #107
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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I don't think Kubiak would have given him the opportunities.
He gave Martin the opportunity to step up early in the season and Martin didn't hang on to the ball. Over and over. And then Schaub started looking elsewhere.

With Hilton... given the fact that he was hanging on to the ball in Indy... it looks like he would have stepped up. Which would have led to more opportunities which Martin didn't get because he didn't step up.
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Old 03-16-2014   #108
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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He might have beaten out Keyshawn, but he wasn't going to beat out Walter. I don't think Kubiak would have given him the opportunities. But TPN has a good point, Martin had plenty of opportunities to make plays. If Hilton would have got those opportunities he'd have been a star. But we still would have stuck to our two TE sets, with KW as WR2
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He gave Martin the opportunity to step up early in the season and Martin didn't hang on to the ball. Over and over. And then Schaub started looking elsewhere.

With Hilton... given the fact that he was hanging on to the ball in Indy... it looks like he would have stepped up. Which would have led to more opportunities which Martin didn't get because he didn't step up.
Exactly. Kubiak and Schaub also looked early and often to Hopkins. There is zero reason to believe Walter's presence would have kept another WR from being targeted or that Walter couldn't be jumped on the depth chart. We also ran more than 2 WRs over 50% of the time and that was with Keshawn not catching 2/3rds of the balls thrown his way. There is no reason to believe we wouldn't have run more 3+ WR sets if our 3rd WR was catching 2/3rds instead.
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Old 03-16-2014   #109
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Who's to say? No one and I mean no one thought the 2013 Texans would be the worst team in the league. Is it likely the Texans contend? No, its unlikely. Especially not knowing who the get at QB and what they can get out of him. But I've seen too many crazy things happen in the NFL to make a blanket statement that a team won't contend. A lot crazier than the 2014 Texans becoming a contender.
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Yup. The Texans had a very uncharacteristic drop. They could also have an uncharacteristic bounce. Especially since the chief cause of the drop is one position imploding.

I don't necessarily disagree that they could turn it around , but the odds are long against it considering the position that imploded was the most important position in football.
There are no FA's with the talent to step in and lead this team to the promised land & its highly unlikely that a rookie QB steps in and takes them to the playoffs , much less a deep run in the playoffs.

They have no QB and will need a year or more for a rookie to develop.

I don't blame Smith & co for not spending in FA this year , it just doesn't make a lick of sense to do so when you have so many and such impactful questionmarks across the roster.
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Old 03-16-2014   #110
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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He gave Martin the opportunity to step up early in the season and Martin didn't hang on to the ball. Over and over. And then Schaub started looking elsewhere.

With Hilton... given the fact that he was hanging on to the ball in Indy... it looks like he would have stepped up. Which would have led to more opportunities which Martin didn't get because he didn't step up.
Hey... that's fine I already said you made a good point. Hilton is a better WR than Keyshawn Martin.
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Old 03-16-2014   #111
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

I graded Hilton as a far superior prospect to Posey. I had him as a 2nd rounder. Issue with him was that he was very raw and played at a small school, whereas Posey had two solid years in the Big Ten. I had Posey as a 3rd rounder so we took him in the right spot but I definitely would have preferred Hilton.

I had Martin as a 6th rounder. Hated the pick at the time and still hate it now.
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Old 03-17-2014   #112
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Personally, I think it's a straw man to assert the only way a new GM should've been hired if and only if, they worked with O'Brien(who has no previous HC experience in NFL or lengthy successfull college experience).

The known piece here is Smith. Not saying make a change here for sake of making a change, more so asking when it comes down to it why have him stay?,Only really way he stays is if you believe Kubiak made bulk,of personnel calls and Smith gave him options.
There are at least two approaches to GMs when it comes to personnel.

One approach is to make him responsible for evaluation and the securing of talent. This is the style most believe is the norm.

A second is to simply assign him the responsibility to secure the talent others have determined they need. This is a reasonable approach when your skills lean toward the accounting rather than the talent evaluation. This is what I believe we have in Rick.

This makes him an acceptable retention with a new coaching change which will simply give him different players to pursue which fit their evaluations of the best players for their system.
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Old 03-17-2014   #113
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Remember a couple of years ago when the Seahawks didn't have any DBs? They fixed that. Hopefully, we can fix our holes this offseason.

But.

To do that.

You've got to make some moves at some point.
And to do that on a limited budget, you have to get VALUE. Value is most often found toward the last stages of FA, in the draft and with UDFA. If Kubiak were still here, I think we'd have been in talks with Winston. Perhaps we are if he fit's OBs system. But we really don't know how he will adapt his system to our personnel at this time or if he has a new variation in mind from what he has done in the past.
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Old 03-17-2014   #114
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

>Are we rebuilding?

That has a more obvious answer than "Is the sky blue?"
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Old 03-17-2014   #115
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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>Are we rebuilding?

That has a more obvious answer than "Is the sky blue?"
Not lately...
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Old 03-17-2014   #116
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Based on the number of FAs lost vs number of FAs signed the Texans ARE NOT building or rebuilding, they're destructing.
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Old 03-17-2014   #117
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Based on the number of FAs lost vs number of FAs signed the Texans ARE NOT building or rebuilding, they're destructing.
You have to tear down before you can rebuild!
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Old 03-17-2014   #118
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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I had Martin as a 6th rounder. Hated the pick at the time and still hate it now.
I hated that pick as well. The guy wasn't even the best WR on his college team. That was B.J. Cunningham, who was a 6th round pick and is pretty much out of the league at this point. Martin was a horrible pick.
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Old 03-17-2014   #119
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Re: Are we rebuilding?


Yes
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Old 03-17-2014   #120
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I really thought we would keep most of our free agents, maybe two leaving. Get maybe a QB through free agency or minor trade and try to turn this around fast. Now, not so much, I'm not sure what the direction is. If it's full rebuild then trade everybody, half a$$ never works. Maybe it's a two year plan. I don't know but I am a little surprised so far.
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