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Old 03-15-2014   #81
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Maybe I phrased it poorly but that's exactly what I meant. There would have been a definite advantage to hiring a new GM if he had previously worked with O'Brien to know what sort of players he (O'Brien) liked. My guess is that there wasn't a guy with that background available when they were looking. So Rick Smith got to stay.
Personally, I think it's a straw man to assert the only way a new GM should've been hired if and only if, they worked with O'Brien(who has no previous HC experience in NFL or lengthy successfull college experience).

The known piece here is Smith. Not saying make a change here for sake of making a change, more so asking when it comes down to it why have him stay?,Only really way he stays is if you believe Kubiak made bulk,of personnel calls and Smith gave him options.
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Old 03-15-2014   #82
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by djohn2oo8 View Post
What happened when the running game wasn't working? Who was open then? It was amazing how the line went from protecting Schaub to not protecting Keenum. Kubiak could not adjust, or did not to when they blitzed Keenum, which made them predictable. First play of every single game was playaction, don't tell me that the offense wasn't predictable.
You know much of the issue with pass rush , blitzes and pressure was Keenum's fault. He didn't recognize where pressure was coming from pre snap and failed to call proper protection schemes.

The second half of the KC game is a prime example of that - They didn't even technically blitz , they overloaded from one side or the other while the opposite defenders fell into coverage - Something that most solid QB's can exploit with a quick pass .... Keenum got his ass handed to him.

Its easy to blame the coach or the scheme .. but ultimately its the talent on the field that scores TD's & throws INT's.

I'm laughing my ass off at the comments about Obrien's scheme being so "complicated" .... Its no more complex than the one the last coach ran and in fact its not a whole lot different.
In many situations , it is much simpler than what Kubiak operated where receivers had several different routes & combinations of routes to run based off of what specific defenders did on any given play , all while making everything appear identical to any other play from set up to beyond the snap of the ball with play action.

That offense was good enough year before last to be a top 5 in damn near every category ..... with a QB who was very limited physically and playing with injuries.
Blame the coach , not the noodle armed statue of a QB with sh!t for protection ..... or the UDFA QB with sh!t for protection , who couldn't read a defense .... and disregard the results generated with a healthy noodle armed statue of a QB with solid protection. Also forget about the back to back division championships and a playoff win with a 5th round rookie QB. Blame the system ....


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Hey Rob

Some of that was from supposed leadership.
You know , I hear it from the horses mouth .... not from the made up world of John McLame.

Had a conversation with .... Bob a while back. He really likes Johnny Football.

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That said, I think there was great men in leadership positions that were not inherently leaders. I wish your relative "all the best" and unfortunately for the Texans he will. He will succeed in his new duties which should be scary for the rest of the AFC!

To be quite honest , I'm glad he's no longer with the Texans .... I just get tired of people blaming the wrong people for failures of specific individuals.



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As an aside Rob, I would like to have dinner with you, Chris et al like we did at the seafood restaurant. I had a killer time.


Yeah , we need to do that again soon. Haven't talked to Dave in a while but I'm sure he'd go given notice. I'll make a post in the "No Sports Talk Allowed" section in the next couple days and see if we can set something up .... before Chris runs away to California Texas.
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Old 03-15-2014   #83
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Maybe I phrased it poorly but that's exactly what I meant. There would have been a definite advantage to hiring a new GM if he had previously worked with O'Brien to know what sort of players he (O'Brien) liked. My guess is that there wasn't a guy with that background available when they were looking. So Rick Smith got to stay.
That's nowhere near the truth .... McNair really believed this team was better than it is and that's why Smith kept his job. Its not. I bet in hindsight , he'd have fired them both.
This team is an absolute disaster at a multitude of positions , with the most important position (QB) being one of them ..... and Rick is responsible for that contract , tho I do give him credit for making it easy to walk away from this season or beyond.

After last years draft (among the many other draft mistakes), I'm afraid to give him another draft to screw up .... After Swearinger & Hopkins , no one contributed sh!t.

The 2012 team got by on the strength of their veteran stars with a little help from the rest of the roster , this past season those veteran stars couldn't do enough to overcome the weaknesses throughout the rest of the roster.

QB - broken & bad
RG - wet behind the ears with potential.
RT - Pathetic
LG - Washed up
RB - Injured , injured and who the hell is blocking anyway ?!
TE - Injuries.

DT - Sub par & ill suited for a 34
OLB - Disappointing on both sides
ILB - Injuries & Joe Mays ?!
CB - Injured JJo , McCain sucks. K Jax played relatively well.
SS - Injured , I thought Keo played pretty well even if he is limited physically.
FS - Rookie mistakes


Special teams .... One WTF moment after another.

On offense I didn't mention WR , C and LT. On defense , I didn't mention DE , now one of those guys is in Oakland. Count the holes this team needs to fill to be competitive ... and then realize that plugging in a rookie QB pretty much guarantee's we don't sniff the playoffs.
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Old 03-15-2014   #84
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Granted we have holes however so does every other team. Seahawks WRs were ok at best. Broncos OL was suspect.
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Old 03-15-2014   #85
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That's nowhere near the truth .... McNair really believed this team was better than it is and that's why Smith kept his job. Its not. I bet in hindsight , he'd have fired them both.
What I remember hearing at the time of Kubiak's firing was that one of the big things Smith wanted more power over was the draft. One of the big things I remember hearing (although I don't recall where I read it) was Smith doing a "See, I told you so" about the WRs that were drafted two years ago. Smith didn't want Posey, he wanted TY Hilton and he got over-ruled.

Now. I believe that McNair was there in the war room and in the meeting rooms prior to the draft. I think he knows which guys Smith wanted to draft vs. the guys that Kubiak and the other coaches wanted to take.

His keeping Smith might be a way of saying that we would have had a better team if Smith had more control in the draft. I don't know.

When it comes to free agency this year, my brain keeps telling me that we're playing it smart and that we'll find some guys that are going to fill some of these holes and that they're going to be guys that OB and RAC like. But my heart is getting pounded right now. I want to see us do something. I want to see us pull some rabbits out of some hats and start to put together a team that can make it to the play-offs and do some damage.
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Old 03-15-2014   #86
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Granted we have holes however so does every other team. Seahawks WRs were ok at best. Broncos OL was suspect.
Remember a couple of years ago when the Seahawks didn't have any DBs? They fixed that. Hopefully, we can fix our holes this offseason.

But.

To do that.

You've got to make some moves at some point.
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Old 03-15-2014   #87
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
What I remember hearing at the time of Kubiak's firing was that one of the big things Smith wanted more power over was the draft. One of the big things I remember hearing (although I don't recall where I read it) was Smith doing a "See, I told you so" about the WRs that were drafted two years ago. Smith didn't want Posey, he wanted TY Hilton and he got over-ruled.

Don't believe everything you hear ....



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When it comes to free agency this year, my brain keeps telling me that we're playing it smart and that we'll find some guys that are going to fill some of these holes and that they're going to be guys that OB and RAC like. But my heart is getting pounded right now. I want to see us do something. I want to see us pull some rabbits out of some hats and start to put together a team that can make it to the play-offs and do some damage.
Forget about it , you may as well resign yourself to the fact that this is a rebuilding year.

Unless they somehow pull a veteran starting QB out of their hats , this team isn't contending this season and I don't find that to be very likely at all.

Then you have a dozen other holes to fill .... because of the cap issues & hole at QB , its kinda silly to spend a lot of $$ on FA's. Before you start spending on high priced FA's , you need to be closer to your goals.
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Old 03-16-2014   #88
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That's nowhere near the truth .... McNair really believed this team was better than it is and that's why Smith kept his job. Its not. I bet in hindsight , he'd have fired them both.
This team is an absolute disaster at a multitude of positions , with the most important position (QB) being one of them ..... and Rick is responsible for that contract , tho I do give him credit for making it easy to walk away from this season or beyond.

After last years draft (among the many other draft mistakes), I'm afraid to give him another draft to screw up .... After Swearinger & Hopkins , no one contributed sh!t.
McNair is in the draft room every draft and knows how the decision making goes. He knows who had the final say on each pick. And he fired those he thought responsible, the coaches.

Now if you say that makes Smith little more than a figurehead who does contracts and tries to make some draft day trades. No argument from me.

Edit: as for the rest of your post, that just shows we ARE rebuilding. I don't disagree with that either.
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Old 03-16-2014   #89
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Forget about it , you may as well resign yourself to the fact that this is a rebuilding year.

Unless they somehow pull a veteran starting QB out of their hats , this team isn't contending this season and I don't find that to be very likely at all.

Then you have a dozen other holes to fill .... because of the cap issues & hole at QB , its kinda silly to spend a lot of $$ on FA's. Before you start spending on high priced FA's , you need to be closer to your goals.
Like I said, they have to pull some rabbits out of some hats to be able to put us in contention this year.

That, or maybe hire some hit-squads to go out and kill, main, or destroy the reputations of several of our competitors.
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Old 03-16-2014   #90
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
What I remember hearing at the time of Kubiak's firing was that one of the big things Smith wanted more power over was the draft. One of the big things I remember hearing (although I don't recall where I read it) was Smith doing a "See, I told you so" about the WRs that were drafted two years ago. Smith didn't want Posey, he wanted TY Hilton and he got over-ruled.

Now. I believe that McNair was there in the war room and in the meeting rooms prior to the draft. I think he knows which guys Smith wanted to draft vs. the guys that Kubiak and the other coaches wanted to take.

His keeping Smith might be a way of saying that we would have had a better team if Smith had more control in the draft. I don't know.

When it comes to free agency this year, my brain keeps telling me that we're playing it smart and that we'll find some guys that are going to fill some of these holes and that they're going to be guys that OB and RAC like. But my heart is getting pounded right now. I want to see us do something. I want to see us pull some rabbits out of some hats and start to put together a team that can make it to the play-offs and do some damage.
Remember when we drafted back and got Duane Brown? Remember the story Kubiak himself told that Rick Smith had one more trade back option and Kubiak yelled at him not to take it for fear they might miss Brown? If Smith was in control of the draft and all personnel moves then how does Kubiak have the power to veto a draft day move that would get the team an additional draft pick??

It's well understood how much of a control freak Kubiak is on game day; what makes you think draft day would be different?
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Old 03-16-2014   #91
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
McNair is in the draft room every draft and knows how the decision making goes. He knows who had the final say on each pick. And he fired those he thought responsible, the coaches.

Now if you say that makes Smith little more than a figurehead who does contracts and tries to make some draft day trades. No argument from me.

Edit: as for the rest of your post, that just shows we ARE rebuilding. I don't disagree with that either.
Its pretty obvious that McNair believes we have more talent on this roster than we actually do .... and fired Gary for failing to get what he thought was a contender to contend. The expectations were sky high last season going in .... He's pretty much said exactly that with his expectations of a quick turn around. "We have a lot of talent."


I've got news for him ..... we don't have near as much talent as he thinks we do and this will not be a contender next season.


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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Remember when we drafted back and got Duane Brown? Remember the story Kubiak himself told that Rick Smith had one more trade back option and Kubiak yelled at him not to take it for fear they might miss Brown? If Smith was in control of the draft and all personnel moves then how does Kubiak have the power to veto a draft day move that would get the team an additional draft pick??
Can you blame him for wanting his guy there and arguing the point of missing out on him ? Brown has been

That didn't mean Gary had more or less control over the draft than Smith , just that in that case he made his case , argued his point and got his guy.

Bottom line is that roster building is Smith's job .... he has to get guys that fit the description given by the coach. That hasn't changed with the new coaching staff.



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It's well understood how much of a control freak Kubiak is on game day; what makes you think draft day would be different?
I really think that's a misconception. The QB has a lot of freedom to change plays , thing is that those changes are built into the play prior to the snap.
He can change from a run to a pass .... from the same set.
He can change a route or a combination of routes , he can change the protection based upon what he see's at the line. Many things can change while the appearance stays the same.

Many people assume "we don't call audibles" to mean we don't make adjustments , that's simply not true and has been argued and explained here several times in the past ..... but the myth lives on , mainly because Gary fell on the sword covering for Schaub after a pick six this season saying he couldn't change the play when in actuality he had several options available and didn't take advantage of them.

Rosenfels even explained this in an interview at one point saying how flexible & QB friendly this offense was.

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Like I said, they have to pull some rabbits out of some hats to be able to put us in contention this year.

That, or maybe hire some hit-squads to go out and kill, main, or destroy the reputations of several of our competitors.
I have 19 rabbits in the back yard .... with 3 litters due next month. I'll help supply the rabbits to pull outa the hat .... but I don't think I have near enough.

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Old 03-16-2014   #92
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by djohn2oo8 View Post
What happened when the running game wasn't working? Who was open then? It was amazing how the line went from protecting Schaub to not protecting Keenum. Kubiak could not adjust, or did not to when they blitzed Keenum, which made them predictable. First play of every single game was playaction, don't tell me that the offense wasn't predictable.
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The same people.

It's amazing because it didn't happen. The difference was Schaub was better at seeing the D and getting rid of the ball.

Well since not even close to the first play of every game was playaction apparently the playcalling wasn't predictable even with hindsight. The #2 GM in the league, #1 actual GM since they stuck Belichick in #1 just disagreed with you and hired Kubiak who had other suitors as well. The league disagrees with you.
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Are these numbers for the whole season? I would like to see the numbers for just the last four games of the season - the last two games started by Keenum and the final two games of the season started by Schaub.

Keenum's last games was when I asked myself the question, why wasn't Keenum operating out of the shotgun more to counter the blitz; this was also when I had the thought that it seemed Keenum was playing a different game from his earlier ones.

And when Schaub started the final two games was when I thought I noticed he was operating almost exclusively from the shotgun. Certainly this was true for the several consecutive series when this thought hit me.

(edit) It just now occurred to me that these four games were after Kubiak was fired. I wish I had recorded these games.
Texans Opening Drive First Snaps 2013

Hou v SD (Schaub)
Pass Left (Tipped at line and Intercepted)

TENN v HOU (Schaub)
Hand off Foster Left side (10 Yard Gain)

HOU v BAL (Schaub)
Play Action pass to flat (OD Tackled for loss)

SEA v HOU (Schaub)
Hand Off Foster right side (1 yard gain)

HOU v SF (Schaub)
Hand off Tate left side (1 yard loss)

STL v HOU (Schaub)
Hand off Foster right side (18 yard gain)

HOU v KC (Keenum)
Play Action pass deep left to Graham (Dropped Ball - Incomplete)

IND v HOU (Keenum)
Pass from Pistol over middle to Foster (Incomplete)

HOU v AZ (Keenum)
Pass attempt from pistol (Strip/Fumble returned for AZ TD)

OAK v HOU (Keenum)
Play Action pass from pistol to flat (Johnson 3 yard loss)

JAC v HOU (Keenum)
Toss right to Tate (3 yard loss +15 yards penalty)

NE v HOU (Keenum)
Hand off tate left side (6 yard gain)

HOU v JAC (Keenum)
Hand off from pistol to tate middle (3 yard gain)

HOU v IND (Keenum)
Hand off tate right side (4 yard gain)

DEN v HOU (Schaub)
Hand off D. Johnson left side (4 yard gain)

HOU v TEN (Schaub)
Play action pass left to Johnson (5 yard gain)
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Old 03-16-2014   #93
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Cap Hell
  1. $15.6M . Andre Johnson
  2. $14.4M . Matt Schaub
  3. $11.2M . Johnathan Joseph
  4. $8.50M . Duane Brown
  5. $8.50M . Arian Foster
  6. $7.00M . Chris Myers
  7. $6.00M . Danieal Manning
  8. $5.30M . Brian Cushing
  9. $4.30M . Kareem Jackson
  10. $3.60M . Jj Watt
$84.4M for ten players. That's why we're in cap hell. We've got good players & we pay them like they're good players. We may not like them any more, but at one time... We think/thought Andre was/is the best WR in the league. We believe(d) Duane Brown was/is among the best LTs in the league. At one time, we thought it was imperative that we lock Cushing up long term. We were ecstatic when Rick Smith reached out into FA & plucked Jjo & DMann off the market.

... & we want to make Jj Watt the highest paid defensive player in the league.

We've got $49M (or so) to sign the other 43 players that make up the roster.
So you mean our problem is we have too many good players .

I don`t really think that too many of these contracts are bad. Schaubs is obviously, JoJos might, if he can`t get back to form (but not nearly as bad as Schaub), Foster has health issues, other than that the contract is fair. Myers and Manning we`ll have to wait and see how they do under BoB. Id do the other contracts in a hardbeat.

I don`t think it is wrong to have 10 players taking up close to 2/3ds of our salary. The problem is these players underperforming or being injured and other players not being adequate at least. I actually believe that most teams have a similar salary structure (with a couple of big time players taking up most of the salary cap, and the rest of the team are players on their rookie salary and cheap signings).

If we`d have at least a mediocre RT last season and the Schaub from 2 seasons ago, I really believe we would`ve been a playoff team (and even one that could make the superbowl with a little luck).
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Old 03-16-2014   #94
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post


I've got news for him ..... we don't have near as much talent as he thinks we do and this will not be a contender next season.


Who's to say? No one and I mean no one thought the 2013 Texans would be the worst team in the league. Is it likely the Texans contend? No, its unlikely. Especially not knowing who the get at QB and what they can get out of him. But I've seen too many crazy things happen in the NFL to make a blanket statement that a team won't contend. A lot crazier than the 2014 Texans becoming a contender.
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Old 03-16-2014   #95
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I don`t think it is wrong to have 10 players taking up close to 2/3ds of our salary. The problem is these players underperforming or being injured and other players not being adequate at least. I actually believe that most teams have a similar salary structure (with a couple of big time players taking up most of the salary cap, and the rest of the team are players on their rookie salary and cheap signings).
You are correct. The Texans are not grossly top heavy compared to teams with non-rookie contract QBs. Top 7 cap hits combined:

Texans $71

Patriots $67
Ravens $70
Steelers $70
Packers $65
Saints $65
Broncos $68
Giants $68

What is unusual is AJ and not because of what he is being paid but because of how much money has been pushed into this year in contract restructure accounting.* If his bonus money accounting were more normal the Texans would be right at mid pack with about $68.

* If you want to see an egregious example, Larry Fitzgerald's cap hit next year is $23.6 mil.

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Who's to say? No one and I mean no one thought the 2013 Texans would be the worst team in the league. Is it likely the Texans contend? No, its unlikely. Especially not knowing who the get at QB and what they can get out of him. But I've seen too many crazy things happen in the NFL to make a blanket statement that a team won't contend. A lot crazier than the 2014 Texans becoming a contender.
Yup. The Texans had a very uncharacteristic drop. They could also have an uncharacteristic bounce. Especially since the chief cause of the drop is one position imploding.
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Old 03-16-2014   #96
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
McNair is in the draft room every draft and knows how the decision making goes. He knows who had the final say on each pick. And he fired those he thought responsible, the coaches.

Now if you say that makes Smith little more than a figurehead who does contracts and tries to make some draft day trades. No argument from me.

Edit: as for the rest of your post, that just shows we ARE rebuilding. I don't disagree with that either.
I think one of the things that has been frustrating for fans is that we have not known for sure who is responsible. My understanding is that Kubiak had final say of player decisions, but did he merely use that as veto power or did he tell Smith what to do more than not.
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Old 03-16-2014   #97
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Granted we have holes however so does every other team.
More specifically... every team on our 2014 schedule has holes on their team. Most of them have more holes than we do.... yup, more than we do.

We don't have to be very good next year & still turn in a winning record. Cutting down on the turnovers, especially from the QB... improve in the red zone.... we'll win a lot of games in 2014.
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Old 03-16-2014   #98
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
One of the big things I remember hearing (although I don't recall where I read it) was Smith doing a "See, I told you so" about the WRs that were drafted two years ago. Smith didn't want Posey, he wanted TY Hilton and he got over-ruled.
Well that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Hilton would still have been at least 3rd on our depth chart, maybe even 4th. I remember a lot of excitement around Keyshawn Martin picking up the play-book really quick, & being a pro.

Then it could have very well have been Hilton who blew his Achilles out in the last game of the season.

We still would have drafted DeAndre, Keyshawn would still be our #3... & Hilton would still be "potential" right now.
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Old 03-16-2014   #99
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Well that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Hilton would still have been at least 3rd on our depth chart, maybe even 4th. I remember a lot of excitement around Keyshawn Martin picking up the play-book really quick, & being a pro.

Then it could have very well have been Hilton who blew his Achilles out in the last game of the season.

We still would have drafted DeAndre, Keyshawn would still be our #3... & Hilton would still be "potential" right now.
Where do you come up with this stuff? You really think that changing people would lead to the exact same results?
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Old 03-16-2014   #100
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
Where do you come up with this stuff? You really think that changing people would lead to the exact same results?
Because Posey's issue isn't/wasn't a talent problem. It was an injury problem. We took a chance on him needing extra time to get into game shape & it appeared that gamble paid off, until he suffered another unrelated injury.

The way TPN put it, you'd think Hilton is a better talent than Posey & right now, we don't know that.

There is no guarantee that Hilton would have seen as much playing time as he did in Indy. Chances are that he wouldn't, buried behind the great Kevin Walter & we'd be crying about our lack of depth at the WR position with Hilton on the depth chart.
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