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Old 03-13-2014   #2681
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Absolutely stupid comparison.
Why is it stupid?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Also makes no sense coming from Warren Moon.
Why is it any different coming from Warren Moon?
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Old 03-13-2014   #2682
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Default Re: Manziel

I could see Manziel being Tim Tebow like.

Great college player, relied on their legs a lot (though Manziel is the better passer obviously), showed a lot of emotion during games, spoke very confidently about their abilities, rah rah type, very popular in the media, kind of divisive, some question whether they can change enough about their game to translate to NFL success...

Manziel is a better passer than Tebow, but I can see some similarities between the two as well. Not saying Manziel will flame out like Tebow, but the possibility exists.
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Old 03-13-2014   #2683
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post


Why is it any different coming from Warren Moon?
It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
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Old 03-13-2014   #2684
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
What does his own career have to do with his evaluation of players?
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Old 03-13-2014   #2685
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
IMO his comparison is strictly based on his doubts that Manziel's ability to make the type of plays he made in college with his feet will transfer over to the NFL and has nothing to do with comparing their throwing ability. If that's the case then it's a fair comparison if you have the doubts Moon does. Since Manziel is undersized he needs to run a much better time at his pro day.
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Old 03-13-2014   #2686
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
IMO his comparison is strictly based on his doubts that Manziel's ability to make the type of plays he made in college with his feet will transfer over to the NFL and has nothing to do with comparing their throwing ability. If that's the case then it's a fair comparison if you have the doubts Moon does. Since Manziel is undersized he needs to run a much better time at his pro day.
That is the way I took it. Purely doubts about translation to the NFL with concerns for same possible outcome not a comparison of all the characteristics of their play.

Which gets me to a pet peeve. I hate that so many people think simply putting two names in the same sentence is a comparison of every aspect of the two. If I say Manning's first two years he had INT problems just like Carr (random choice, not an actual assertion) I don't mean anything beyond exactly that one point of comparison. I hate inane responses like "oh sure so Carr is a hall of famer now."
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Old 03-13-2014   #2687
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Absolutely stupid comparison.
Well it is coming from Moon. Did you really expect more?
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Old 03-13-2014   #2688
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
I could see Manziel being Tim Tebow like.

Great college player, relied on their legs a lot (though Manziel is the better passer obviously), showed a lot of emotion during games, spoke very confidently about their abilities, rah rah type, very popular in the media, kind of divisive, some question whether they can change enough about their game to translate to NFL success...

Manziel is a better passer than Tebow, but I can see some similarities between the two as well. Not saying Manziel will flame out like Tebow, but the possibility exists.
Yep

Too much risk of flame out to pick 1-1 for my taste.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2689
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Default ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

Quote:
He has absolutely no instinct or feel for pocket awareness. He has an instinct to run. That’s a bad instinct if you’re going to have that in the National Football League,” Hoge said on “SportsCenter” on Wednesday. “You have to play in the pocket with traffic around you and throw it. When traffic comes around him, he runs, and that’s dangerous in the National Football League. His skill set does not transition to the National Football League, and it is a big, big risk. In fact, I see bust written all over him, especially if he’s drafted in the first round.
http://www.secrant.com/news/63871/48...Johnny-Manziel
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Old 03-22-2014   #2690
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Quote:
He has absolutely no instinct or feel for pocket awareness. He has an instinct to run. That’s a bad instinct if you’re going to have that in the National Football League,” Hoge said on “SportsCenter” on Wednesday. “You have to play in the pocket with traffic around you and throw it. When traffic comes around him, he runs, and that’s dangerous in the National Football League. His skill set does not transition to the National Football League, and it is a big, big risk. In fact, I see bust written all over him, especially if he’s drafted in the first round.
http://www.secrant.com/news/63871/48...Johnny-Manziel
Smart, innovative OC can design an offense around JFF's skill set.

Hoge just trying to raise his own profile with these absolute statements. He's a tool.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2691
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

Hoge is a tool who has a propensity for making stupid statements.

But he is right about Manziel's pocket awareness. The kid consistently bails for no reason. Regardless of his arm talent he is still a run first QB. That's his mentality.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2692
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Smart, innovative OC can design an offense around JFF's skill set.

Hoge just trying to raise his own profile with these absolute statements. He's a tool.
Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
And most of all, JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
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Old 03-22-2014   #2693
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

And I though he didn't want to be "Johnny Football" anymore...?

Quote:
Johnny Manziel could soon own the trademark for the moniker he’s made famous.

ESPN’s Darren Rovell reports that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office sent a letter Thursday to Kenneth R. Reynolds Family Investments rejecting its claim that the “Johnny Football” phrase wasn’t referring to an individual.

“Registration is refused because the applied-for mark consists of or includes a name, portrait, or signature identifying a particular living individual whose written consent to register the mark is not of record,” the examining attorney wrote.

Kenneth R. Reynolds Family Investments filed for the trademark on Nov. 1, 2012, while Manziel was in the midst of his Heisman Trophy winning season at Texas A&M. The quarterback’s corporation, JMAN2 Enterprises, filed for the trademark on Feb. 2, 2013.

The College Station-based investment firm has up to six months to appeal the ruling.

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...JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
Exactly.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2694
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
And most of all, JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
Lol, exactly...Designer offenses can only get you so far...solid defenses will take you out of the comforts of that designer offense & a good qb has to be able to counter...most qb's who require those type of offenses won't take you anywhere & certainly aren't worthy of a top 10 pick let alone 1:1.

Furthermore, we just traded away a qb who needed an offense designed around what he does best to make him look good. How'd that work out for us?
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Old 03-22-2014   #2695
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Default Re: Manziel

PFF: The Johnny Manziel Debate
Quote:
Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel is one of the most polarizing players in the 2014 NFL draft class. While he posted gaudy numbers over his two seasons at College Station, the signal caller has come under fire for his off-the-field transgressions and hard-to-translate style of play. Ross Miles and I recently debated the possibility of Manziel becoming a franchise quarterback.

The Case Against Manziel (by Ross Miles)

When I watch tape of Johnny Manziel, I don’t see a franchise quarterback I’d want to build a NFL team around. His off-the-field endeavors don’t bother me, and he certainly has the “IT” factor required to be the face of a franchise; instead, my issues are with his game...

The Case for Manziel (by Eli Nachmany)

Some of the NFL’s best quarterbacks are the ones who simply find a way. From Fran Tarkenton to Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers, the league’s history is littered with signal callers who improvise post-snap. Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel is one of those quarterbacks...
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Old 03-22-2014   #2696
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Default Re: Manziel

Some of the NFL’s best quarterbacks are the ones who simply find a way. From Fran Tarkenton to Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers, the league’s history is littered with signal callers who improvise post-snap. Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel is one of those quarterbacks...
*********************
OK Fran Tarkenton might be a valid comparison to Manziel, but he last played 35 years ago which was an entirely different brand & era of football compared to todays NFL, and there's no telling how his style would have fared these days. And I don't think the comparison to Rogers or Farve is valid because unlike Manziel both of those QBs had elite arms.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2697
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2698
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
Hmmph... Teddy's bois don't count pro days.
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Old 03-22-2014   #2699
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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Hmmph... Teddy's bois don't count pro days.
have a smoke and relax, not everyone is a teddy boi.


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Old 03-22-2014   #2700
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Default Re: ESPN's Merrill Hodge says Manziel has "Bust" written all over him

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You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
Haters gonna hate ....


All I know is that every time I've watched T A&M Johnny Football is making big plays and winning football games.


I'm still a bit undecided on these QB's. Bridgewater didn't help himself with his pro day & Bortles didn't exactly light the world on fire. Carr had a really good pro day .... & Johnny Football has his in a few days.
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