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Old 03-03-2014   #301
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Speaking on the bold area of your post. Doing that with Watt will follow with a disgruntled player that sits out during training camp etc.
Yes, but during that time you negotiate his 4 year extension with a BIG signing bonus and you can prorate it starting in the "5th year" of his rookie deal. Thus reducing his caphit over time by throwing a few million of his signing bonus into that year.
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Old 03-03-2014   #302
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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(this discussion should probably have its own thread, but whatever)...
You're right, my bad... here the new topic:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=104286
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Old 03-03-2014   #303
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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A Storm is a Brewing...First round picks from the 2011 draft class are in for a rude awakening
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Simply put, a system that was advertised as a way to reward players who perform has instead turned into leverage against the players.
( By request, deserves its own topic.)

Leverage isn't leverage unless you use it. We should offer him a "reasonable" contract now, pay him well, just not in the overpaid Mario Williams neighborhood. I'd give him $24M signing bonus (Mario got $19M & only $25M guaranteed) & guarantee the next three years of salary, $1M, $6M, $6M (another $13M)....... Overall value of the 6 year deal would be ~$60M. He gets 40% of it up front, 60% guaranteed ($37M).

I'm willing to do 5 years for $60M, I'm willing to go as far as $74M for 6. Either way, if he's worth it I'm looking to renegotiate in 2018 anyway.

So I'm looking at anything from $10M/yr (this is where we start) to $12M/yr. Which is less than the $16M/yr of Mario's contract. But I'm putting 26% more money in Jj's pocket right off the bat. & he's guaranteed 50% more.

The offer won't change next year, & it won't change after 2015 when he's a free agent. He can take the money now, or risk injury, or two sub par seasons in a 2 gap 3-4.
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Old 03-03-2014   #304
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Leverage isn't leverage unless you use it. We should offer him a "reasonable" contract now, pay him well, just not in the overpaid Mario Williams neighborhood. I'd give him $24M signing bonus (Mario got $19M & only $25M guaranteed) & guarantee the next three years of salary, $1M, $6M, $6M (another $13M)....... Overall value of the 6 year deal would be ~$60M. He gets 40% of it up front, 60% guaranteed ($37M).

I'm willing to do 5 years for $60M, I'm willing to go as far as $74M for 6. Either way, if he's worth it I'm looking to renegotiate in 2018 anyway.

So I'm looking at anything from $10M/yr (this is where we start) to $12M/yr. Which is less than the $16M/yr of Mario's contract. But I'm putting 26% more money in Jj's pocket right off the bat. & he's guaranteed 50% more.

The offer won't change next year, & it won't change after 2015 when he's a free agent. He can take the money now, or risk injury, or two sub par seasons in a 2 gap 3-4.
Can I have some of what you are smoking?
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Old 03-03-2014   #305
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Can I have some of what you are smoking?
Me too. I just need a little pinch for a '1 hitter'.

Standing by....
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Old 03-03-2014   #306
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Can I have some of what you are smoking?

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Me too. I just need a little pinch for a '1 hitter'.

Standing by....

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Old 03-03-2014   #307
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Can I have some of what you are smoking?
Are you saying you would offer Jj more than $12M/yr now, or you're going to make him play out his rookie contract, plus the team option 5th year before you offer him an extension?
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Old 03-03-2014   #308
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Can I have some of what you are smoking?
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Are you saying you would offer Jj more than...
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Old 03-03-2014   #309
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Are you saying you would offer Jj more than $12M/yr now, or you're going to make him play out his rookie contract, plus the team option 5th year before you offer him an extension?
I am saying $10 is an insult, $12 is not going to happen and going all Trump on him with refusing to increase as the market rises is a recipe for failure so pass the brownies if you think that is going to work.
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Old 03-03-2014   #310
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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I am saying $10 is an insult, $12 is not going to happen and going all Trump on him with refusing to increase as the market rises is a recipe for failure so pass the brownies if you think that is going to work.
I'm offering a bigger signing bonus than Mario got, I'm offering more guaranteed money than Mario got. I'm willing to guarantee him $37M (heck, I'll make it an even $40M), I'm offering an average salary of $12M, I can start putting that money in his pocket today.

He can say no. That's his prerogative. Instead of putting $25M in his mattress, or he can take his $120K game check to the bank each week. If he gets hurt & is no longer the player he is now...... he may not get such a deal in the future. If the NFL "catches up" to him & his production declines... he may not get such a deal in the future.

I'm making it pretty clear my ceiling is $12M/yr, if he turns it down now, he'll turn it down at the end of the 2015 season. I'd much rather trade him before the 2015 season before I pay him more than $12M/yr. There will more than likely be a line of teams who'd be more than happy to pay him more than that.

I'm banking on it. Especially if we draft Clowney.
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Old 03-04-2014   #311
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

In addition to all the other problems and reasons this has less of a chance of happening than me being made Pope, you need to take another look at Mario's contract. Through the 1st 3 years of his contract (2014) he will have received $51.9 mil so $1.9 mil more than JJ would make in the 1st 5 years of your contract proposal.

But carry on.
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Old 03-04-2014   #312
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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In addition to all the other problems and reasons this has less of a chance of happening than me being made Pope, you need to take another look at Mario's contract. Through the 1st 3 years of his contract (2014) he will have received $51.9 mil so $1.9 mil more than JJ would make in the 1st 5 years of your contract proposal.

But carry on.
So be it. I've drawn my line in the sand. I put a dollar amount on what I'm willing to pay Jj Watt. Anything more than that, to me is overpaying & a mistake. If the Texans want to make that mistake, nothing I say is going to change that.

Like I said to start, what's the point of having leverage if you're not going to use it?
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Old 03-04-2014   #313
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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So be it. I've drawn my line in the sand. I put a dollar amount on what I'm willing to pay Jj Watt. Anything more than that, to me is overpaying & a mistake. If the Texans want to make that mistake, nothing I say is going to change that.

Like I said to start, what's the point of having leverage if you're not going to use it?
What's the point of drafting the best defensive player in the league if you're not prepared to pay him like it? You gonna trade him because he refuses to be low balled?

It doesn't matter if Mario's contract is ridiculous. Watt is a better player than Mario and his representation will be looking to be compensated in a similar manner. $12 mil a year is a slap in the face. The franchise tag for a DE is $13.1 mil.
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Old 03-04-2014   #314
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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It doesn't matter if Mario's contract is ridiculous. Watt is a better player than Mario and his representation will be looking to be compensated in a similar manner. $12 mil a year is a slap in the face. The franchise tag for a DE is $13.1 mil.
Mario will never realize $16M/yr.
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Old 03-04-2014   #315
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Mario will never realize $16M/yr.
You're right. He is about to finish three years at $17.3/yr in his pocket.
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Old 03-04-2014   #316
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Mario will never realize $16M/yr.
Short of Mario voluntarily agreeing to a pay reduction, please give a scenario where it's even possible he doesn't realize $16M/yr.
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Old 03-04-2014   #317
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Short of Mario voluntarily agreeing to a pay reduction, please give a scenario where it's even possible he doesn't realize $16M/yr.
They'll ask him this year or next to restructure.
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Old 03-04-2014   #318
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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They'll ask him this year or next to restructure.
That doesn't address my question. Many restructures don't impact dollars - only timing, and I specifically excluded taking a pay cut. So I ask again...
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Old 03-04-2014   #319
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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They'll ask him this year or next to restructure.
Restructuring will mean he gets the money in his pocket faster, possibly with the promise of more money above his current contract.
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Old 03-04-2014   #320
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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That doesn't address my question. Many restructures don't impact dollars - only timing, and I specifically excluded taking a pay cut. So I ask again...
Maybe I spoke too soon. Looking at the cap, they can easily afford it. But just because the Bills does it, doesn't mean we should.

"We" didn't want Mario on this team with an $18M cap hit, regardless how many sacks & TFL he produced.
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