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Old 03-01-2014   #1
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Default Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014
Quote:
YEAR: 2014
Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech 60
Stephen Morris, Miami 59
Tom Savage, Pittsburgh 57
Blake Bortles, Central Florida 56
Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois 56
Jeff Mathews, Cornell 56
Keith Wenning, Ball State 56
Jordan Lynch, Northern Illinois 55
Tajh Boyd, Clemson 54
Bryn Renner, North Carolina 54
David Fales, San Jose State 53
AJ McCarron, Alabama 53
Dustin Vaughan, West Texas A&M 53
Connor Shaw, South Carolina 50

YEAR: 2013
Geno Smith, West Virginia 55
...
EJ Manuel, Florida State 54
...
Michael Glennon, North Carolina State 49

YEAR: 2012
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State 59
...
Nick Foles, Arizona 57
...
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55
Case Keenum, Houston 55

YEAR: 2011
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 59
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 58
...
Andy Dalton, TCU 56
...
Jake Locker, Washington 54
TJ Yates, North Carolina 52
Christian Ponder, Florida St 51

YEAR: 2010
Colt McCoy, Texas 56 (Did not throw at Combine. Throw was recorded at a private workout with a Radar Gun & Computer Chip in Ball.

YEAR: 2009
Mark Sanchez, Southern Cal 57
Josh Freeman, Kansas State 57

YEAR 2008
Joe Flacco, Delaware 55
...
Chad Henne, Michigan 53
...
Matt Flynn, LSU 50
To see all results: http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/...ine-2008-2012/
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Old 03-02-2014   #2
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Things to think about:

1) the best prospects don't throw at the combine year after year so there is not enough context.

2) Isolating any single metric yields bad analysis..see the top 40 yards dashes and bench press

3) Despite 1 and 2, there is some velocity that the vast majority of successful QBs obtain. looks like around 53-54 MPH.

4) and yes I saw that Keenum threw as fast as Russell Wilson, but see number 2
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Old 03-02-2014   #3
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Things to think about:

1) the best prospects don't throw at the combine year after year so there is not enough context.

2) Isolating any single metric yields bad analysis..see the top 40 yards dashes and bench press

3) Despite 1 and 2, there is some velocity that the vast majority of successful QBs obtain. looks like around 53-54 MPH.

4) and yes I saw that Keenum threw as fast as Russell Wilson, but see number 2
Looks like a weeding out stat if all you get is the number and no video. Anyone below 50 - red flag. Above that pretty much no correlation to success or functional arm strength. Basically any decent QB can load up and make the gun read in the 50's for a few throws. With the video you would be able to see Flacco doing it with ease v. a Schaub/Bortles having to load up to do it.
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Old 03-02-2014   #4
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

According to Sports Science, a little bit of wobble is ideal:

http://www.totalprosports.com/2009/1...ct-pass-video/
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Old 03-02-2014   #5
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Things to think about:

3) Despite 1 and 2, there is some velocity that the vast majority of successful QBs obtain. looks like around 53-54 MPH.
Here's another thing to consider: Are the QBs being asked to throw at max velocity? Maybe Flacco was trying to show at the combine that he could throw with touch? Does anyone really think the guys with 55+ velocity have as good or better arm strength than Joe Flacco? I don't think so. It's pretty much a nothing stat. A scout (and maybe even fans like us) should be able to watch the games and determine if a QB has a strong arm or not.
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Old 03-02-2014   #6
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Nearly every NFL scout will tell you that accuracy is more important that arm strength, but a QB still must be able to throw the ball down field, or better yet an effective "deep out" pattern to meet the minimum threshold for arm strength in the Pros. But I dunno for sure what those numbers are supposed to represent ?
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Old 03-02-2014   #7
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

I'm not too worried about velocity or 40 yard dash times for my traditional pocket passers. They'll all be able to throw the deep ball fairly well if they make it to the NFL. If I was looking at a play maker, gunslinging type, someone more likely to throw without a good base, arm strength & 40s are more important.
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Old 03-02-2014   #8
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Here's another thing to consider: Are the QBs being asked to throw at max velocity? Maybe Flacco was trying to show at the combine that he could throw with touch? Does anyone really think the guys with 55+ velocity have as good or better arm strength than Joe Flacco? I don't think so. It's pretty much a nothing stat. A scout (and maybe even fans like us) should be able to watch the games and determine if a QB has a strong arm or not.


Guys with power arms,they just throw,but guys with something to prove probably try to show more arm talent. I used to have this discussion with 76texan about keenum. I've been in camp and stood with pat kirwan and solomon wilcots watching all 3 qb drop back at the same time and throw. It was clear Yates arm was clearly better than the other 2. When they were throwing the out routes to the sideline,Yates ball got there with more velocity and at a quicker rate than keenum and schaub.
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Old 03-02-2014   #9
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Looks like a weeding out stat if all you get is the number and no video. Anyone below 50 - red flag. Above that pretty much no correlation to success or functional arm strength. Basically any decent QB can load up and make the gun read in the 50's for a few throws. With the video you would be able to see Flacco doing it with ease v. a Schaub/Bortles having to load up to do it.
This. It's not a throwaway stat in that if you have a guy you like then you want to make sure he's in the over-50 group but past that you don't put too much emphasis on it.
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Old 03-03-2014   #10
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Here's another thing to consider: Are the QBs being asked to throw at max velocity?
They shoot the same route every year. QBs don't try harder for the gun.

Everyone has a natural speed once they master the kinetic chain. Drew Brees is low 50s, but very accurate. Whoever said above is correct, accuracy is most important because it's most difficult to remedy.
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Old 03-03-2014   #11
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
QBs don't try harder for the gun.
Curious how you know this?

Human nature says they will.
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Old 03-03-2014   #12
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

I like to watch the film to see what's what with a qb's arm.

I've seen Schaub load up and really gun the ball at times, but I see a guy like Rodgers who zings the ball almost not even thinking about it. It's just how he throws.

Over the course of watching a guy on tape or seeing a guy in person, you can get a feel for the type of arm he has.
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Old 03-03-2014   #13
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Guys with power arms,they just throw,but guys with something to prove probably try to show more arm talent. I used to have this discussion with 76texan about keenum. I've been in camp and stood with pat kirwan and solomon wilcots watching all 3 qb drop back at the same time and throw. It was clear Yates arm was clearly better than the other 2. When they were throwing the out routes to the sideline,Yates ball got there with more velocity and at a quicker rate than keenum and schaub.
I think Yates has the most live arm out of the three, but you can't really go look at one drill and make a determination.

Guys could be focusing on different things in a drill. One guy could be really fresh or just feeling good. One guys arm can be sore from throwing a bunch the previous day. One guy might've gotten some last night and the other guy might've put his pet cat to sleep.

Also the target you're throwing to can affect your velocity. If you're throwing to a slower moving more deliberate target you might put the ball up for them...someone with great hands you might feel more comfortable just zinging it in on them.

Soreness really almost anywhere in the body can effect ball velocity. Especially in a practice setting where your adrenaline isn't flowing.

I'm not denying what you saw, but what you saw may not mean much at all. Not from one drill at one practice.
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Old 03-03-2014   #14
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
According to Sports Science, a little bit of wobble is ideal:
Thanks for posting that PO. I feel much better now knowing :"a little bit of wobble is ideal". I seem to recall a little bit in my canter when leaving a few of my favorite watering holes late in the evening. Of coarse this is only noticed on my way to the passengers seat sitting next to my DD.
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Old 03-03-2014   #15
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Thanks for posting that PO. I feel much better now knowing :"a little bit of wobble is ideal". I seem to recall a little bit in my canter when leaving a few of my favorite watering holes late in the evening. Of coarse this is only noticed on my way to the passengers seat sitting next to my DD.
And by the stop sign you may or may not avoid
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Old 03-03-2014   #16
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
I like to watch the film to see what's what with a qb's arm.

I've seen Schaub load up and really gun the ball at times, but I see a guy like Rodgers who zings the ball almost not even thinking about it. It's just how he throws.

Over the course of watching a guy on tape or seeing a guy in person, you can get a feel for the type of arm he has.
I would love to get to hear the sound of TB/BB/JM/Garappolo/Met/Murray/ Smith's ball and see how much they had to load up to make the throw. This would tell me a large part of who my future QB would be.
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Old 03-03-2014   #17
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Curious how you know this? Human nature says they will.
The guy who publishes the information told me last year. If they try to overthrow their mechanics break down/miss the WR/looks bad. They're focused on footwork, fundamentals, and ball placement -- that's what pays the bills.
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Old 03-03-2014   #18
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
The guy who publishes the information told me last year. If they try to overthrow their mechanics break down/miss the WR/looks bad. They're focused on footwork, fundamentals, and ball placement -- that's what pays the bills.
Thanks for answering. Not sure I'm buying what he's selling but it's an answer.

I think a guy with a ? on his arm (Keenum, Schaub, Manziel, Bortles) is going to come in and push it harder than a guy with a big arm (Flacco, Mallett, Mettenberger) and that's why we see such a tight grouping of speeds.

Big arm -> concentrates on accuracy possibly sacrificing speed.
? arm -> concentrates on speed possibly sacrificing accuracy.
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Old 03-03-2014   #19
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

If a thrower tries to "over" throw their velocity typically drops. Sports performance is all about manipulating tense to create force. One of the things you'll find with elite athletes, it's not just how much tension they can produce in working muscles it's also how quite the antagonistic muscles are as well. Effectively everything is working in concert. If you try to over throw then the muscles that are supposed to be shut off and up being tensed as well creating an opposing force thus reducing the total output.

For example, using completely arbitrary numbers, if a thrower stays relaxed and loose when throwing, his tricep may fire at an 8 while the tension in his bicep drops to a 1. If the same guy over throws, his tricep may fire at a 8.5 but his bicep is now at a 2.5-3 so the net result is indeed lower. This can happen all along the kinetic chain as well
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Old 03-03-2014   #20
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Default Re: Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2014

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
If a thrower tries to "over" throw their velocity typically drops. Sports performance is all about manipulating tense to create force. One of the things you'll find with elite athletes, it's not just how much tension they can produce in working muscles it's also how quite the antagonistic muscles are as well. Effectively everything is working in concert. If you try to over throw then the muscles that are supposed to be shut off and up being tensed as well creating an opposing force thus reducing the total output.

For example, using completely arbitrary numbers, if a thrower stays relaxed and loose when throwing, his tricep may fire at an 8 while the tension in his bicep drops to a 1. If the same guy over throws, his tricep may fire at a 8.5 but his bicep is now at a 2.5-3 so the net result is indeed lower. This can happen all along the kinetic chain as well
I agree and I think this also works for bat speed, club head speed, arm speed. And I think it is the reason why you are always hearing athletes getting advice to relax and stay loose.
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