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Old 02-17-2014   #21
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I always respect your opinion ICAK, but sometimes you look for a little too much "proof" considering we're discussing a game where secrecy and schadenfreude are king. It's very rare you'll get the true spin on what's going on behind the scenes in a varifiable manner. Look at some of the rubbish posted as 'news' on NFL.com and it's little more than speculation from the same outside position as we get with maybe a little more access to Chinese whispers than what we get as lay-fans.
I am not against speculation and hopes. I am just wary of building a storyline out of smoke which over time becomes bricks through repetition.

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I'm not certain what you're seeing, man. Smith had a rough year, but Jones wasn't close to beating him out or anyone else along the oline. Saying he did just as well as Brooks is crazy. Brooks was one of the better of the bunch towards the end of the season. Playing next to Newton is what hurt him.
I'll second this.
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Old 02-17-2014   #22
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I thought Ben Jones did a fine job. Give him the starting job & he'll grow into it. I think it should have had the job over Wade Smith for sure. Rotating in & out of the game as a rookie I thought he did as well as Brooks. Different, but for what he did, he did well.

I'm not saying he should be a lock for the LG spot, if Ques is going to be in competition for the position, let them battle it out. But I think Q & Brennan should be battling for the RT job.
Most C's in college start out playing OG for a couple of yrs and learn the OL calls. Then when the vet C starts making too much $$$$ they let him walk in FA and the young guy takes over at C. (See Unger for the Seahawks/Deitrich-Smith Packers etc....)
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Old 02-17-2014   #23
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I'm not certain what you're seeing, man. Smith had a rough year, but Jones wasn't close to beating him out or anyone else along the oline. Saying he did just as well as Brooks is crazy. Brooks was one of the better of the bunch towards the end of the season. Playing next to Newton is what hurt him.
Last year, yes. Brooks looked much better at the end of the year than he did to start... most likely due to not having to rotate in & out of the game all year.

Ben Jones didn't get to play until mid year & then he was rotating in & out with Wade. As bad as he may have looked, Wade played so poorly, imo, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the field unless it was because of injury. I'd have cut him before the season started because nothing I saw in 2012, or the 2013 preseason had me believing he could play anywhere close to his cap number.

But... when I say Ben Jones looked as good as Brooks, I was talking about in 2012 when they were both rotating in & out of the OL. Different, but relatively equal development. If it were me, Brooks would have started on the Left side & Ben would have started on the right side.
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Old 02-17-2014   #24
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Last year, yes. Brooks looked much better at the end of the year than he did to start... most likely due to not having to rotate in & out of the game all year.

Ben Jones didn't get to play until mid year & then he was rotating in & out with Wade. As bad as he may have looked, Wade played so poorly, imo, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the field unless it was because of injury. I'd have cut him before the season started because nothing I saw in 2012, or the 2013 preseason had me believing he could play anywhere close to his cap number.

But... when I say Ben Jones looked as good as Brooks, I was talking about in 2012 when they were both rotating in & out of the OL. Different, but relatively equal development. If it were me, Brooks would have started on the Left side & Ben would have started on the right side.
Still don't know what you're watching. He was even worse in 12 than 13. The only thing that kept the rotation going was Brooks' inconsistency. In 2012 Brooks was bad for MA's. Jones just flat out got whooped more times than not.

Agree to disagree
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Old 02-17-2014   #25
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
Earl Mitchell didn't get enough reps behind Shaun Cody, whilst. Chris Jones went and started for New England having barely seen the field for us.
I like Earl, and think he is underrated in TT, but he's not much better that Shaun Cody IMO. He has the potential to be, but not quite there yet. And the only reason Chris Jones started in NE was due to injuries. It's not like he "took over" the starting job. The Pats were also 3rd from last in rushing defense, so was he even playing well?

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Foster was held back for 3/4 of a season behind who exactly, and then Ben Tate has been criminally under utilised to the point where we've ran Foster into the ground just because he was in 'the doghouse' during a season when he remained relatively healthy.
How do you know Foster was ready to play in this league when he was first signed? Arian himself said he had alot to learn. Lets not assume Foster would have been successful from day one. Who knows, maybe the only reason Arian was successful was because Kubiak waited until he was ready?

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I've not been one to hound Kubiak, I think he moved the club to a new level over his tenure (it was definitely time to move on though), I just see this as having been a failing he had. He never trusted young players with few reps, and subsequently they never got enough reps to develop.

Your first point, yeah, you're right, it's a league wide thing, not that it necessarily makes it right. If your first round draft pick isn't ready to play week 1, don't throw him to the wolves anyway, find someone who can play and feed him in gradually.
Are you contradicting yourself a little there? You first say Kubes didn't trust young players. Then you say if the young guy isn't ready to play, don't throw him into the wolves?

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In fact I think the NFL as a whole is roundly failing in the area of talent development, when you reach the pros, due to the salary cap and roster limitations, it's sink or swim straight away when in other sports you find lots of players who take a few years of extremely uneven play before finding their feet at the top level.

I'd love to see some kind of reserve league added for development, keep them seperate from the actual roster, play maybe 4 or 6 games a season against other reserve teams, and see how they get on, maybe be able to activate one or 2 per season to the active roster and for the rest they just have to wait till the following TC to try and battle it out. Would give more young players a chance to get better IMHO.
I agree with you here, and it is due to the salary cap. Because of the cap, just about every team MUST heavily rely on the rookies they just drafted to contribute, and contribute right away!
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Old 02-17-2014   #26
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Default Re: Center Battle

I'm not worried about the oline. Personally I want to see quess at RT with some good competition behind him pushing and the best out of jones, Brennan Williams and others at LG.

Don't care what blocking scheme we use.

Thing about learning to zone block is that you can carry over a lot of those techniques to a man blocking scheme. Not sure what we'll ultimately run, but to me it doesn't matter.
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Old 02-18-2014   #27
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN View Post
Worth a try. I fear Myers will be manhandled by not playing ZBS, I believe he was a product of that system


Your man... Pots and pans
We will see, maybe Meyers can add a little weight in order to transition form ZBS to a different scheme?


Your dude... Forks and spoons.
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Old 02-18-2014   #28
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Default Re: Center Battle

I like Myers but age/cap are negatives. Jones should have enough time now to call plays & size/youth should make him equal. He is not a OG & needs to be center or cut. Q should start unless we draft someone like Gabe Jackson.
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Old 02-18-2014   #29
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Default Re: Center Battle

Jones has shown zilch to indicate he is anything close to equal to Myers. A lot of Duane Brown's slump this season was watching out over the LG.
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Old 02-18-2014   #30
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by _King_ View Post
I'm not worried about the oline. Personally I want to see quess at RT with some good competition behind him pushing and the best out of jones, Brennan Williams and others at LG.

Don't care what blocking scheme we use.

Thing about learning to zone block is that you can carry over a lot of those techniques to a man blocking scheme. Not sure what we'll ultimately run, but to me it doesn't matter.
Maintaining same weight does not transition well from one scheme to the other. And increased weight may not transition to the maintenance of the original scheme.
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Old 02-18-2014   #31
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Jones has shown zilch to indicate he is anything close to equal to Myers. A lot of Duane Brown's slump this season was watching out over the LG.
Hasn't most of Jones game experience come at LG? Cannot compare him to Myers at center; it would have to be from training as a center.
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Old 02-18-2014   #32
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I like Myers but age/cap are negatives. Jones should have enough time now to call plays & size/youth should make him equal. He is not a OG & needs to be center or cut. Q should start unless we draft someone like Gabe Jackson.
Myers' cap number is nowhere near bad enough to consider cutting him with a brand new head coach. If he were in the NFL the last 4 years & had the inside line at a guy he knows/trusts to handle that position (pretty important position) maybe.

But no way I can see us cutting Myers.
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Old 02-21-2014   #33
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Default Re: Center Battle

he's gotten some quality time over the past two years at both right guard and left guard, and to be honest, i havent seen anything from jones that i would call starter material. not very physical, no pop off the line, and way too many mental mistakes for my liking. maybe that was being out of position or the role didnt allow for much "gel", but i just dont see it in jones.
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Old 02-21-2014   #34
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Default Re: Center Battle

Myers is starting to get a bit long in the tooth, but I expect him to start this year for sure and probably next year. After that, we'll see. He has been one of the best centers in the NFL over the past several years.

Competition is good and I don't mind anyone having to compete for a job but it's a real stretch to say Ben Jones has a legit shot at the starting C spot.

Jones looks like a competent career backup/spot starter to me. Having said that, if he works hard maybe he is the heir apparent there. Time will tell.
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Old 02-21-2014   #35
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Default Re: Center Battle

Jones spends way too much time on his ass.
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Old 02-21-2014   #36
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Jones spends way too much time on his ass.
That was a unique blocking technique introduced to the entire OL last year.
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Old 02-22-2014   #37
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Default Re: Center Battle

If we switch from a ZBS we're basically starting from scratch as far as the entire OL depth chart is concerned. Brooks and maybe Brown are the exception....
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Old 02-27-2014   #38
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Default Re: Center Battle

For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.
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Old 02-27-2014   #39
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Default Re: Center Battle

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For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.
WOW!! That's actually is huge Doc... As someone that played O-Line, we understand what it means for an offensive lineman to explode off the line but more importantly jab that defensive lineman (violently) with full effort to effect their rush..

What kind of repair time (i.e. elbow full strength/extension) are we talking about? 6-8 weeks? 3 months?

As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?
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Old 02-27-2014   #40
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.
Wow. I missed that one. Could be important.

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As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?
Within the next couple of years if Jones is no good. Myers was still playing at a good level, but his pass blocking dipped a bit possibly due to Wade's weak play.
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