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Old 02-22-2014   #21
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.
I wouldn't like it at 1-1. The point is getting maximum value by trading down and then taking him if that is your guy. The highest I've seen him is at #5.
A trade of our 1-1 (3000) with the Raiders for their 1-5 (1700), 2-36 (540), 3-67 (255), 4-103 (88) and their 2015 - 1st (420) ((3003)). Is a much better deal than simply picking him at 1-1.

This is reasonable if they have the desire to leapfrog the pack for their guy at QB. Rumor has indicated their guy is Manziel, who might be gone if they wait.
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Old 02-22-2014   #22
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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I wouldn't like it at 1-1. The point is getting maximum value by trading down and then taking him if that is your guy. The highest I've seen him is at #5.
A trade of our 1-1 (3000) with the Raiders for their 1-5 (1700), 2-36 (540), 3-67 (255), 4-103 (88) and their 2015 - 1st (420) ((3003)). Is a much better deal than simply picking him at 1-1.

This is reasonable if they have the desire to leapfrog the pack for their guy at QB. Rumor has indicated their guy is Manziel, who might be gone if they wait.
It's not reasonable. You have them giving up a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th this year and a 1st next year to move up 4 spots. That's their first four picks this year and their top pick next year. No team is going to empty their draft like that for one player. Much less to move up just 4 spots.

In 2011, the Falcons gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th in 2011 and a 1st and 4th in 2012 to move up 21 spots (#27 to #6). You expect the Raiders to give up basically the same to move up 4 spots? Not a chance.

BTW, I agree with your stance on trading back if you are targeting a guy like Mack and getting maximum value out of the draft. However, there is no chance a team would unload their draft like that to move up 4 spots.
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Old 02-22-2014   #23
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.
would favor CJ Mosley OLB in Crennel defense over Mack if that was route. trust his tape against SEC competition over Mid-American. blame me for my lack of exposure, tried to watch Buffalo a couple times last season but just not that interested in their games as opposed to seeing almost all Alabama games. Mack was never contested or blocked, see the athletic ability & movement skills but just haven't seen enough based off that to project #1 overall. Had him mocked to Texans after bye week or very early in season when Texans were falling down hill, just never expected them to be choosing on the very bottom of the pile
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Old 02-22-2014   #24
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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would favor CJ Mosley OLB in Crennel defense over Mack if that was route. trust his tape against SEC competition over Mid-American. blame me for my lack of exposure, tried to watch Buffalo a couple times last season but just not that interested in their games as opposed to seeing almost all Alabama games. Mack was never contested or blocked, see the athletic ability & movement skills but just haven't seen enough based off that to project #1 overall. Had him mocked to Texans after bye week or very early in season when Texans were falling down hill, just never expected them to be choosing on the very bottom of the pile
You should check out his tape against Ohio State. He dominated that offensive line.
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Old 02-22-2014   #25
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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It's not reasonable. You have them giving up a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th this year and a 1st next year to move up 4 spots. That's their first four picks this year and their top pick next year. No team is going to empty their draft like that for one player. Much less to move up just 4 spots.

In 2011, the Falcons gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th in 2011 and a 1st and 4th in 2012 to move up 21 spots (#27 to #6). You expect the Raiders to give up basically the same to move up 4 spots? Not a chance.

BTW, I agree with your stance on trading back if you are targeting a guy like Mack and getting maximum value out of the draft. However, there is no chance a team would unload their draft like that to move up 4 spots.
It depends on how much they want to get their guy. Why not use the trade in 2012 for comparison. Washington gave up their 6th pick + 38th pick + 2013 1st Rounder + 2014 1st Rounder. They also moved up 5 spots to the SECOND spot.

Rams
1-2 ((2600))

Redskins
1-6 (1600)
2-38 (520)
next years 1st (420)
year after nexts 1st (190)
((2930))

Now tell me again why they would NEVER do it?
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Old 02-22-2014   #26
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
You should check out his tape against Ohio State. He dominated that offensive line.
Mewhort doesn't really impress me that much, but will certainly check it out, thanks!!!
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Old 02-22-2014   #27
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
It depends on how much they want to get their guy. Why not use the trade in 2012 for comparison. Washington gave up their 6th pick + 38th pick + 2013 1st Rounder + 2014 1st Rounder. They also moved up 5 spots to the SECOND spot.

Rams
1-2 ((2600))

Redskins
1-6 (1600)
2-38 (520)
next years 1st (420)
year after nexts 1st (190)
((2930))

Now tell me again why they would NEVER do it?
1) They didn't unload their entire draft for one guy. They gave up 2 picks that year, 1 pick the next year, and 1 pick the year after. It was spread out. You have the Raiders giving up their top 4 picks this year plus top pick next year.

2) That trade seems to be universally considered a failure for Washington. Is a team really going to fall into that trap just 2 years later? I don't think so. Especially when RGIII was considered worthy of the #1 pick that year by most draftniks and all of the QB's this year are considered reaches at #1.
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Old 02-22-2014   #28
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.
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Old 02-22-2014   #29
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.
It's a legitimate question. How hard will he work after he gets paid? It scares the hell out of scouts because it's one of the few things that you can't measure. You won't know until he starts getting the checks.
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Old 02-22-2014   #30
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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It's a legitimate question. How hard will he work after he gets paid? It scares the hell out of scouts because it's one of the few things that you can't measure. You won't know until he starts getting the checks.
Who'd have thunk David Carr wouldn't eat/sleep/drink football? Were there any signs?
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Old 02-25-2014   #31
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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At every pick of every round you should have a list of guys worthy of said pick. Because of need people want to exclude everything but QB with pick 1.1. I understand QB is the most important position on the field. ThAt doesn't mean you blindly use the best asset you have to fill the position. It doesn't mean use your best asset to put a player there that isn't talented enough to warrant that asset.

If QB is fairly close to next BPA (talent wise) at one of those premier positions then QB is most likely your best choice.
This is where I think the largest difference here is in this message board.

You and many others talk about this and say, 'if there isn't that much of a drop off between the QBs at 1.01 and QBs at 2.01 so grab best available'.

That logic is correct, there is nothing wrong with that.

But I think everyone (and I only speak for myself) that is preaching QB at 1.01 (Be it TB, Bortles, or JFF) all believe that those loser QBs available later in the draft won't be able to anything except hold a towel for those top 3 guys (depending on who your #1 is).
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Old 02-25-2014   #32
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.
What was it, 1 sack in the last 40 quarters of play? Clowney is a physical freak with all the talent in the world. True, he was double teamed a lot last season, but he was far from a dominant player. His own coach questions his work ethic. A player, that can`t get dominate in college (or even have a very good season last year) raises question marks, especially if he is supposed to be a generational talent. That makes Clowney a risky pick. Not because of his talent or phyisique, there is no question about that - but you don`t know if he will ever put in the work needed. You don`t know if he won`t take 50% of snaps of. And you don`t know if he doesn`t lose interest in football once the money comes in.

Picking Clowney is a gamble. And with several other quality players on the board, I can understand dropping him.
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Old 02-25-2014   #33
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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But I think everyone (and I only speak for myself) that is preaching QB at 1.01 (Be it TB, Bortles, or JFF) all believe that those loser QBs available later in the draft won't be able to anything except hold a towel for those top 3 guys (depending on who your #1 is).
With Bortles at #3 (some have him at #1) & Carr at #4... I just find that extremely hard to believe.
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Old 02-25-2014   #34
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

The more I read, the more I'm leaning toward Watkins.
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Old 02-26-2014   #35
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

I really appreciate Mayoc's choice of Mack as his top guy in the Draft. Not because I agree with him, which I definitely don't, but because it's such an outside the box kinda choice and demonstrates that Mayoc is secure enough in his own knowledge that he's "the guy" when it comes to the Draft that he's willing to make such an unconventional choice.
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Old 02-26-2014   #36
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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I really appreciate Mayoc's choice of Mack as his top guy in the Draft. Not because I agree with him, which I definitely don't, but because it's such an outside the box kinda choice and demonstrates that Mayoc is secure enough in his own knowledge that he's "the guy" when it comes to the Draft that he's willing to make such an unconventional choice.
agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall
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Old 02-26-2014   #37
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall
Kinda agree, Mayock behaves more like a television personality than a pro scout these days. The difference between the broadcast feed(Mayock) and the NFL.com feeds was dramatic. Only time network was better was on DBs w/Sanders and Haden.

I'm good with Mack top 10, but no way as 1-1. Headline seeking take, imo.
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Old 02-26-2014   #38
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

Mayock along with everyone else is not a fortune teller. (In 2011 he ranked Gabbert #5 with Newton #21) They can project and predict based on what they know and what they have seen. We all know there is no magic formula. Every player evolves and progresses differently with different variables. Watch Clowney's game tape and interviews and make your mind up for yourselves. Only time will tell if any of these guys were the "correct selection."
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Old 02-26-2014   #39
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall
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Mayock along with everyone else is not a fortune teller. (In 2011 he ranked Gabbert #5 with Newton #21) They can project and predict based on what they know and what they have seen. We all know there is no magic formula. Every player evolves and progresses differently with different variables. Watch Clowney's game tape and interviews and make your mind up for yourselves. Only time will tell if any of these guys were the "correct selection."
That he is no seer is absolutely true. But Mayock is arguably the most accurate guy out there, in a world of inaccuracy.
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Old 02-26-2014   #40
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Default Re: Mike Mayock 2014 NFL Draft

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With Bortles at #3 (some have him at #1) & Carr at #4... I just find that extremely hard to believe.
I know you've stated that you don't see much difference between the top tier guys like Bridgewater and the lower tier guys like... oh... hmmm... McCarron... but most people don't feel that way.

The people who have identified with one QB or another will think their guy is going to be great and everyone else will be lucky to be a backup.

For me, I'm not sold on this QB class but I still think that Bridgewater is head and shoulders above the other QBs in this class and I think he's probably just an average NFL starter. I don't think Manziel is a long-term answer and I think Bortles isn't a short term answer, although he might be a better than average NFL starter eventually. I think there's a possibility that one of the lower tier guys is a surprise Brady-like story but I don't expect it and I only expect it if they're given a few years to develop.
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