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Old 02-24-2014   #2541
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Johnny Manziel is most comparable to which prior NFL prospects???

http://mockdraftable.com/player_embed/4337/
Athletically, Manziel and Wilson are extremely similar. As QB's? Not even close.
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Old 02-24-2014   #2542
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Default Re: Manziel

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/24/johnny...quarterback/1/
Peter king's story on manziel
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Old 02-24-2014   #2543
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Default Re: Manziel

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Good read. But I bet he wouldn't be talking to Manziel if he weren't from Texas.




& in case you missed it




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Old 02-24-2014   #2544
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Default Re: Manziel

Who is the real Johnny?
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Old 02-24-2014   #2545
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Default Re: Manziel

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Who is the real Johnny?


Edit: removed giant image

Last edited by kiwitexansfan; 02-25-2014 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2546
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Athletically, Manziel and Wilson are extremely similar. As QB's? Not even close.
Yep at this stage of their careers Manziel is the far superior QB.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2547
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Default Re: Manziel

Did anyone notice who was in the booth with Smith and OB at the combine when the QB's were doing their thing? Lombardi. Hmmmmm!
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Old 02-25-2014   #2548
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Did anyone notice who was in the booth with Smith and OB at the combine when the QB's were doing their thing? Lombardi. Hmmmmm!
you know lombardi got fired.
his working with the pats now. unless thats what you meant in terms of interesting
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Old 02-25-2014   #2549
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Yep at this stage of their careers Manziel is the far superior QB.
You've got to be kidding...

More exciting player? Certainly. Superior as a QB? No.

Wilson was a slightly better athlete. Had a stronger arm. Played in two different pro style systems while Manziel has only played in Sumlin's high school offense. Wilson was named team captain at Wisconsin by his teammates after only having been there for two weeks. Manziel has maturity concerns (he's also younger than Wilson was). Wilson used his arm as a primary weapon and his legs when he had to. Manziel uses his legs as his primary weapon and his arm as a secondary one. Wilson was a one man team for three years before he got to Wisconsin. Manziel has been surrounded by as much NFL talent as any QB in the country.

Manziel had a great college career and fantastic stats. Won a Heisman. We all know his story.

Wilson had 17 TDs to 1 INT as a RS FR. As a RS SO he had a 379 pass streak without throwing an INT. Led the conference in passing and total offense again as a RS JR. Transferred to Wisconsin and broke the collegiate record for passing efficiency in a pro style offense that he only had weeks to learn before the season started. Led his team to a conference title and had a ratio of 33 TDs to 4 INTs.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2550
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
You've got to be kidding...

Superior as a QB? No.
Yep, as an NFL prospect Manziel can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wilson. Not. Even. Close.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2551
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Yep, as an NFL prospect Manziel can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wilson. Not. Even. Close.
Did you read what bah was responding to?

And to state the obvious since it apparently needs to be said - Manziel is benefiting from Wilson's success in the NFL.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2552
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
You've got to be kidding...

More exciting player? Certainly. Superior as a QB? No.

Wilson was a slightly better athlete. Had a stronger arm. Played in two different pro style systems while Manziel has only played in Sumlin's high school offense. Wilson was named team captain at Wisconsin by his teammates after only having been there for two weeks. Manziel has maturity concerns (he's also younger than Wilson was). Wilson used his arm as a primary weapon and his legs when he had to. Manziel uses his legs as his primary weapon and his arm as a secondary one. Wilson was a one man team for three years before he got to Wisconsin. Manziel has been surrounded by as much NFL talent as any QB in the country.

Manziel had a great college career and fantastic stats. Won a Heisman. We all know his story.

Wilson had 17 TDs to 1 INT as a RS FR. As a RS SO he had a 379 pass streak without throwing an INT. Led the conference in passing and total offense again as a RS JR. Transferred to Wisconsin and broke the collegiate record for passing efficiency in a pro style offense that he only had weeks to learn before the season started. Led his team to a conference title and had a ratio of 33 TDs to 4 INTs.
You've got to be kidding. There is no question who was the better college QB or nfl prospect. If Wilson was so great in college why didn't he get drafted sooner? Why wasn't he even considered a first round prospect. Hate on Manziel all you wNt but it's silly to suggest what you are saying.

If Wilson was coming out this year and did exactly what he did his career at Wisconsin, he would be a late second round pick at best.

Manziel is being considered for the number one overall pick. No contest.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2553
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
you know lombardi got fired.
his working with the pats now. unless thats what you meant in terms of interesting
Yes I know all about lambardi. It's interesting because he is such a Manziel fan and he's with our guys while the QB's are doing their drills.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2554
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by mussop View Post
You've got to be kidding. There is no question who was the better college QB or nfl prospect. If Wilson was so great in college why didn't he get drafted sooner? Why wasn't he even considered a first round prospect. Hate on Manziel all you want but it's silly to suggest what you are saying.

If Wilson was coming out this year and did exactly what he did his career at Wisconsin, he would be a late second round pick at best.

Manziel is being considered for the number one overall pick. No contest.
Because of his height mostly, and a bit of concern about his size. There are a lot of scouts and draftniks who care more about prototypical size than gametape, and I think even moreso when it comes to picking a QB. Brees had always been the exception to the rule, Wilson doing well in the NFL has opened the door a little more for under 6 foot QBs. Hence the "Wilson will make JFF a lot of money" quotes that we have been hearing since the Super Bowl.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2555
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Because of his height mostly, and a bit of concern about his size. There are a lot of scouts and draftniks who care more about prototypical size than gametape, and I think even moreso when it comes to picking a QB. Brees had always been the exception to the rule, Wilson doing well in the NFL has opened the door a little more for under 6 foot QBs. Hence the "Wilson will make JFF a lot of money" quotes that we have been hearing since the Super Bowl.
And I agree with all of that except the assumption that the only reason he wasn't considered a high first round pick was because of his height. And the assumption that the only reason Manziel is being considered for the first pick overall is because of Wilson's success. If that is what you are assuming.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2556
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
And I agree with all of that except the assumption that the only reason he wasn't considered a high first round pick was because of his height. And the assumption that the only reason Manziel is being considered for the first pick overall is because of Wilson's success. If that is what you are assuming.
Assumption, not even close. Wilson's height (which nobody is asserting was the "only reason") was the biggest reason he slid. For example:

Quote:
WEAKNESSES Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.
Link

Wilson's success is also well documented to have benefited Manziel. Once again, not the "only" reason.

Take the two phenomenon - Wilson moved down due to height, and Manziel moved up due to Wilson's success - and remove them and it isn't unfair to opine they would be much closer to one another than the apparent draft disparity indicates, possibly even in direct competition.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2557
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Assumption, not even close. Wilson's height (which nobody is asserting was the "only reason") was the biggest reason he slid. For example:



Link

Wilson's success is also well documented to have benefited Manziel. Once again, not the "only" reason.

Take the two phenomenon - Wilson moved down due to height, and Manziel moved up due to Wilson's success - and remove them and it isn't unfair to opine they would be much closer to one another than the apparent draft disparity indicates, possibly even in direct competition.
Don't buy it but Fare enough. Take draft-ability out of the equation. Was Wilson ever even in the talks as The best player on college football? Was he even considered in the running for the heisman?

I guess a better more fair question would be, if he played the last two seasons, same season as Manziel, would he have been in the running for the heisman or considered one of the top QB's in this class?

Sorry don't see it. I love what he has accomplished in the nfl but that doesn't change who he was in college.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2558
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Default Re: Manziel

Wilson was a more effective and more efficient passer in college than Manziel. Anybody who saw the two play would agree, unless they had some sort of bias. Wilson also played with a much less talented roster than Manziel. Mussop has clearly demonstrated a bias toward Manziel during this draft cycle, so no surprise to hear his opinion.

Anyway, this is a rehash conversation, but that's basically what this thread has been for the last month or so.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2559
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Don't buy it but Fare enough. Take draft-ability out of the equation. Was Wilson ever even in the talks as The best player on college football? Was he even considered in the running for the heisman?
Wilson received around 50 Heisman votes iirc.

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Wilson was a more effective and more efficient passer in college than Manziel.
His last three seasons are a portrait in efficiency. Set the all time rating record in college then became one of if not the only QB to start their career with two 100+ rating seasons.
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Old 02-25-2014   #2560
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Default Re: Manziel

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It's funny how we think we know better than Jerry, or Al. But we've never been able to accomplish anything comparable on any scale.

In other words... there are owners out there that we don't think about as often as Jj or Davis... they've done what we think Jj & Al should have done. .. & don't have sht to show for it.


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