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Old 02-14-2014   #321
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Quote:
[Offensive Line Coach Jim] Turner exacerbated this situation on Nov. 2 when he sent messages to Martin, basically insisting that he lie on Incognito’s behalf. From the report:

Quote:
November 2, 2013:
Turner: Richie incognito is getting hammered on national TV. This is not right. You could put an end to all the rumors with a simple statement. DO THE RIGHT THING. NOW.
Quote:
Martin: Coach. I want to put out a statement. Believe me I do. This thing has become such a huge story somehow. But I’ve been advised not to… And I’m not supposed to text anyone either cuz last time I responded to a teammate (Richie) I was intentionally manipulated and the conversation was immediately forwarded to a reporter.
Quote:
Turner: He is protecting himself. He has been beat up for 4 days. Put an end to this. You are a grown man. Do the right thing

Turner: John I want the best for you and your health but make a statement and take the heat off Richie and the lockerroom. This isn’t right.
Quote:
November 3, 2013:
Turner: I know you are a man of character. Where is it?
Quote:
November 6, 2013:
Turner: It is never to (sic) late to do the right thing!
“Turner sent these text messages to Martin knowing that Martin had hospitalized himself in connection with a mental health condition, and in the face of public reports indicating that Martin’s emotional condition may have been a reaction to his teammates’ bullying and abusive behavior,” the report states.
More from the report:

Quote:
Martin and another player we interviewed both believed that the Assistant Trainer awkwardly laughed along with some of the racial insults, even though he was in fact offended. And both players seemed offended by the flagrant racial harassment of the Assistant Trainer.

In a text message sent on November 4, 2013, Martin told a friend: “I always felt so bad for [the Assistant Trainer] ... it was really racist.”

Martin claims that a number of Dolphins employees saw how the Assistant Trainer was humiliated but did not intervene, including his supervisor, head trainer Kevin O’Neill, who allegedly even laughed at some of the racial insults. As far as we know, none of the players, including Martin, confronted Incognito, Jerry or Pouncey about the racist comments directed at the Assistant Trainer or demanded that they cease.

When interviewed about these matters, the Assistant Trainer initially pleaded that he not be required to answer certain questions, implying that he could not be forthright because he was concerned about losing the trust of the players.

The trainer also told investigators that Incognito was a friend and that he had never offended him. But soon after Martin left the team, the trainer sent him a text message reading, "Hey I understand how [y]ou feel man... They are relentless sometime.... Some day I wanna do exactly what you did today."

As the investigators concluded, "The ceaseless racial ridicule directed at the Assistant Trainer was appalling and plainly over the line in any workplace."
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Old 02-15-2014   #322
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Everyone has met a Johnathon Martin before. He was that kid who when teased/bullied 1)took it personally and 2)was unable to respond. It's surprising that he did not have a firm enough sense of self to extract himself from that trio by choosing different team members to hang with, but I can't fault him for that.

How does no one in that lockerroom stand up for the Japanese trainer those knuckleheads were targeting??? Or the gay teammate? When will the character guys intervene and say "enough is enough"?

I have zero tolerance for bullying. Martin obviously brought his own weaknesses to this environment..... but is he required to fistfight his teammates to neutralize them? What if he breaks his hand or Richie's jaw? What if he hits him with a weight or some other weapon?

I lay the blame for this at the feet of the Dolphins organization. I have less disdain for Incognito and Pouncey -- who needed to be trained -- than I do the people who ignored this. Somebody needed to be the adult here... no one stood up. That, imo, is cowardice.
The problem with that is that these guys are starters within his position group. These are his guys, the guys he needs to form a bond with.
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Old 02-15-2014   #323
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Played football for a long time. Anyone who thinks this is normal behavior in a locker room has no clue what they are talking about. There is a difference between hazing and being a complete psychopath. I played with a RB who's now in the NFL who used to come up behind you when you were naked and pretend that he was trying to rape you. If you were offended by it he would call you gay and then leave you alone. It was a joke. Difference is that Incognito clearly isn't joking. He has deep issues that he tries to resolve by breaking down other people to make himself feel better. He pokes and pokes until he finds your true weaknesses and then relentlessly attacks them. That's not funny.

I had guys like this on my teams and they were always put in their place, and I never made it remotely close to the NFL. Where are the leaders in this locker room? This isn't a band of brothers. They don't give a **** about each other. Nothing that Richie did would make Martin a better football player. I can't believe that a guy like this even made it to the NFL. Look up Incognito's history at Nebraska and Oregon and then come back here and tell me that what he does is "normal" locker room behavior, or why he is the only player on the team who had to sign a one-strike character clause in his contract.

Ask yourself these two questions if you think this is okay. Do you think this **** flies in Peyton Manning's locker room? Why or why not?
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Old 02-15-2014   #324
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Played football for a long time. Anyone who thinks this is normal behavior in a locker room has no clue what they are talking about.
Quote:
Two of the common responses to the bullying within the Dolphins locker room have been, “That’s just how locker rooms are,” and “That’s just how offensive linemen act.” One NFL offensive lineman wants to let people know that’s not the case.

Green Bay Packers offensive lineman T.J. Lang took to Twitter after the release of the Ted Wells report to say that the information he learned about the Dolphins’ locker room does not square with what he’s seen in the Packers’ locker room, or with what he’s heard about other NFL locker rooms.

“Please don’t stereotype NFL players for what’s going on with Miami. That type of stuff is not common in other locker rooms,” Lang said.
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Old 02-15-2014   #325
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Excellent piece by Stink...

Don't lose crucial parts of 'the code'
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"Schlereth, it's your turn to read," he said.

"No thank you," I replied.

"Get up and read, now!," he barked.

"Please, please, no," I begged.

"Get up now or fail," he stated with conviction.

I arose, heart leaping from my shirt, cheeks so flushed they would make a rose wilt with jealousy. I walked to the front of the room. I stood for what seemed like an eternity but in reality was less than a minute and painfully tried to sound out words that were way above my pay grade. With each passing second and every stammered-upon syllable, the snickers from the class grew louder, until my teacher had heard enough.

"Sit down! You're stupid!" he proclaimed.

The class was bursting at the seams with laughter and a heartbroken boy slumped in his chair, tears streaming down his cheeks, puddling in pools of embarrassment on the table beneath him.

Quote:
My parents lovingly passed down the lessons of their lives so that my sister, Jana, and I may also teach our children the foundational principles of a life well lived. There was something else my father passed on, quite unintentionally, I'm sure: learning disabilities. My father is dyslexic, and so am I.
Have you ever been scared or embarrassed to the point of paralysis? Where do you turn when you feel you have nowhere to turn? In whom do you confide when it seems everyone is against you? What is the "correct" response in those situations? I had nowhere to turn and no fellow students or other teachers to support me or help me. I couldn't even turn to my parents because I felt like I had failed them. I was alone.

In a different setting, but one with many similarities, Jonathan Martin walked out. Looking back, I wish I'd had the courage to do the same. Maybe that would have brought the attention that my situation needed for things to be set straight.
...
Quote:
In my seventh season, I found myself on a bus in Japan as a member of the Denver Broncos. It was my first season in Denver and our first road trip of the preseason. As we sat in traffic, there was the usual joking and poking fun that accompanies those moments.

In the seats behind me sat two defensive players, and they were flipping some grief to a young player, typical stuff. At some point, the good-natured, innocuous ribbing became personal and out of bounds, so I turned and said "Enough," they responded with a few choice words for me and I made it clear in no uncertain terms that they crossed a line and I wasn't putting up with it. They mumbled a few protests under their breaths, but it was over and the bus rolled slowly to its destination, again under the din of good-natured fun that accompanies grown men who play a childhood game for a living. A few minutes later, I glanced back at the young player I had stood up for -- no words were exchanged, just a tacit nod of the head, as if to say, "Thanks. I appreciate the help." I replied in kind, and it's was never brought up again.

So there is one story, among many I have, of some self-policing, some enforcing of a code that builds teams rather than tearing them apart. Those guys didn't freak out at my intervention or suggestion that they lay off. I wasn't attacking their manhood. I was reminding them of the line you don't cross. They got a little carried away, but they knew I was right. We moved on with no trouble. Nothing lingered or simmered because it was addressed on the spot. I'm no hero and it probably would have resolved itself, but I was taught to stand up for my team. I was taught "the code" -- the championship code.
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Old 02-19-2014   #326
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Quote:
Dolphins make it official that O-line coach Jim Turner also has been fired, along w head trainer Kevin O'Neill, as earlier reported

Dolphins have fired longtime head athletics trainer Kevin O'Neill, per league sources. O'Neill was named in the Ted Wells report.
How screwy is the Dolphins organization? O'Neill flew to Indianapolis with the rest of Miami's NFL Combine team... then somebody realized the mistake and he was canned in Indy.
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Old 02-19-2014   #327
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Perhaps he was not playing to his potential because he was being bullied and harassed every single day he was there. Kind of hard to focus when you are neck deep in that kind of thing.



How did I know we would be at opposite ends of this discussion? Where is your "Majority is right" attitude now? Seems like decent human beings feel like this was more than just some kidding around with a teammate, but not you. You are going to defend a dirtbag like Incognito.

You didn't think a guy was walking away from millions of dollars because of some good old fashioned ribbing did you? You had to know it was something serious, and so while I do not believe in convicting a guy in the court of public opinion before all of the evidence is, where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Were you defending Hernandez too ? All the evidence is not in there yet either, but there is a lot of smoke in that case.

Your tough guy, no sissies allowed attitude is comical. Is that what you would tell your kid were he in this situation, even if he were a college or pro player? "Suck it up you p*ssy"

And just for the record... the phrase is "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less"

You sticking up for a guy like Incognito is sad, but I guess it's true what they say. "Birds of a feather, flock together"
Not defending,

Just don't care what goes on in the lockeroom

I do care about winning on the field above all else though and if Incognito helped my favorite team win then count me as all in for signing him.
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Old 02-19-2014   #328
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Not defending,

Just don't care what goes on in the lockeroom

I do care about winning on the field above all else though and if Incognito helped my favorite team win then count me as all in for signing him.
Too true. Locker rooms aren't important. Backyard pools are what's important.
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Old 02-20-2014   #329
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Too true. Locker rooms aren't important. Backyard pools are what's important.
That and deaths
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Old 02-20-2014   #330
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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That and deaths
So this is only an issue if Martin kills himself, or kills Incongnito to make it stop?

We shouldn't worry at all until it reaches that point?

If Incognito did this to Martin at a party would it matter? I'm just trying to find out where the locker room boundary ends.
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Old 02-20-2014   #331
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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So this is only an issue if Martin kills himself, or kills Incongnito to make it stop?

We shouldn't worry at all until it reaches that point?

If Incognito did this to Martin at a party would it matter? I'm just trying to find out where the locker room boundary ends.
It wouldn't matter if it were at a party or not. If martin feels uncomfortable a around people that will be at a party then he shouldn't go to the party.

I believe in letting the players police their own locker room as they see fit. Why is it everybody from the GM/OL coaches/Position group didn't take up for Martin?

It really comes down to $$$$. When Martin came out as a draft prospect part of the reason he fell was because he was considered not tough enough and he was somewhat of a locker room lawyer that was only playing for the $$$$.

Come to find out his parents were lawyers and he's going to get paid after walking out on his team. Exactly as some scouts predicted and the main reasons Martin fell from a 1st rd talent to a 2nd rd pick.

Example, on the Texans Winston was tough, but he was always thinking about his post media career instead of concentrating on the only reason people would care about what Eric Winston would think. (PLAYING FOOTBALL) He was also known as as clubhouse lawyer. I wouldn't want that kinda guy on my team. I want a guy where football comes 1st. Obviously Martin isn't that guy. Neither is Antonio Smith. IMHO
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Old 02-20-2014   #332
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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It wouldn't matter if it were at a party or not. If martin feels uncomfortable a around people that will be at a party then he shouldn't go to the party...
So people should not fly because terrorists make them uncomfortable? Martin should stop living because a bully might be at the party? smh
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Old 02-20-2014   #333
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Too true. Locker rooms aren't important. Backyard pools are what's important.
Rep if I could, but I am pretty sure he missed your sarcasm.
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Old 02-20-2014   #334
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
Quote:
Philbin: There's a common decency people need to have with one another.

Now Philbin says the majority of things that happened he wasn't aware about.

When asked if he regrets not cutting Richie Incognito after the golf course incident, Philbin stepped around the answer.

Philbin said Dolphins Stephen Ross has reached out to Jonathan Martin.

Philbin: We're resolute in our dedication to getting this right and correcting any problems that exist here.

Philbin: It's been tough on a lot of people. Ownership, fan base, everyone in the locker room. It's been difficult.

Philbin said the team is in concert with the NFL about discipline. He hasn't made a decision about any player's future in Miami.

Philbin described Jonathan Martin as having a "condition" but won't get into discussions about him.

Philbin: I'm the head football coach. The performance of the team, the record falls on my shoulders. I'm going to be more vigilant, diligent

Philbin: I have to make sure we create a better atmosphere and environment.

Philbin: I have to do a better job. I'm going to look at every way we educate, communicate, talk to one another.

Philbin said the majority of things that happened he knew about.

Philbin: We're going to have a better workplace. I promise you that. I'm going to make sure that happens.

Philbin said what happened in Miami was "inappropriate and unacceptable"

Philbin: Everything I do impacts everyone I work with the Dolphins on a daily basis.

Philbin: I want everybody to know, I'm the one who is responsible for the workplace environment at the Miami Dolphins facility.
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Old 02-20-2014   #335
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Rep if I could, but I am pretty sure he missed your sarcasm.
Wrong
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Old 02-20-2014   #336
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
Yes, Philbin, you are responsible.

The trainer that just got fired is claiming that he did record events of bullying and reported them up the chain. I think it's likely that Philbin was made aware of this.
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Old 02-20-2014   #337
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Yes, Philbin, you are responsible.

The trainer that just got fired is claiming that he did record events of bullying and reported them up the chain. I think it's likely that Philbin was made aware of this.
Philbin is mostly just unimpressive to me -- either dishonest here or incompetent. Neither desirable.
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Old 02-20-2014   #338
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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It wouldn't matter if it were at a party or not. If martin feels uncomfortable a around people that will be at a party then he shouldn't go to the party.
That's fine. What if he feels uncomfortable around people that will be at his workplace? Should he just not go to work?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I believe in letting the players police their own locker room as they see fit. Why is it everybody from the GM/OL coaches/Position group didn't take up for Martin?
Looks like there wasn't much policing going on at all. I prefer that players police their own but if nobody will step up and be a leader then that falls on the staff to fill the void. Looks to me like the whole organization failed to provide leadership. Hmm I wonder why they have only had two winning seasons out of the last ten..

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
It really comes down to $$$$. When Martin came out as a draft prospect part of the reason he fell was because he was considered not tough enough and he was somewhat of a locker room lawyer that was only playing for the $$$$.

Come to find out his parents were lawyers and he's going to get paid after walking out on his team. Exactly as some scouts predicted and the main reasons Martin fell from a 1st rd talent to a 2nd rd pick.
Feel free to provide any proof of those assertions. Here are links to the top scouting reports that google brought up:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...onathan-martin
Quote:
He does flash some attitude on the field, but is far from a bully. Martin was named first team All-Pac-10 in 2010 and first-team All Pac-12 in 2011.....Above-average football smarts and general intelligence. Plays with a nasty streak. Solid character and work ethic.
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012jmartin.php
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Strengths:...Can play with a mean streak
http://www.optimumscouting.com/ranki...-stanford.html
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As the protector of Andrew Luck's blindside, he was prone to scrutiny had he allowed any defenders to hurt the quarterback prodigy. Martin handled this pressure incredibly well both on and off the field and scouts love his football intelligence and willingness to work hard....He is coachable and has a true desire to be the best....He is one of the leaders along a very talented offensive line and is well respected by his teammates and coaches. Coaches have talked about how much of a quality person he is in the locker room and the great attitude he brings to the team....Martin brings a work ethic that seemed to be infectious across Stanford's offensive line and has the on field attitude you like in your tackle. He also brings a special toughness and has played well through some minor injuries. His teammates say he has a true desire to be the best at his position....
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...-decision.html
Quote:
A scout who was most familiar with Martin was brought in and asked to go over the scouting report. And the file was clean. Martin was described as Andrew Luck's blindside protector, as smart, as a potentially good locker room guy and as a tough player.
I think you get the point. Maybe next time actually read up on something instead of just making stuff up and hoping it sticks. The reason Martin fell in the draft was because he wasn't yet strong enough in pass protection to be a LT and didn't have the upper body strength that most coaches look for in a RT, so he was graded by most teams as an OG with the potential to move back outside to OT after getting some NFL coaching.

I also love the double standard that you have created between Martin and Jadeveon Clowney (albeit in another section of the forum). Suppose Martin was just "in it for the money" as you hypothesize. Why is that an issue but it's not an issue when Clowney tanks his final year at South Carolina to "protect himself so he can support his family"? I get lost in all of your spin so you'll have to spell it out for me when it is okay to be in it for the money and when it is not.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Example, on the Texans Winston was tough, but he was always thinking about his post media career instead of concentrating on the only reason people would care about what Eric Winston would think. (PLAYING FOOTBALL) He was also known as as clubhouse lawyer. I wouldn't want that kinda guy on my team. I want a guy where football comes 1st. Obviously Martin isn't that guy. Neither is Antonio Smith. IMHO
I have no problem with this statement. But none of that has anything to do with the Incognito/Martin situation.
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Old 02-20-2014   #339
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Old 02-20-2014   #340
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Not defending,

Just don't care what goes on in the lockeroom

I do care about winning on the field above all else though and if Incognito helped my favorite team win then count me as all in for signing him.

You care about winning on the field above all else? Football isn't that important but it certainly explains your dislike of bob
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