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Old 02-13-2014   #301
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

An agent who has read the Wells report says, "It's going to be bad for Richie".
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Old 02-14-2014   #302
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Default Ted Wells report released

NFL.com reports that according to the Ted Wells report, Richie Incognito, John Jerry, Mike Pouncey engaged in pattern of harassment directed at not only Jonathan Martin, but also others.

I love this. After all the fluff pieces NFL.com wrote after the Smith Incognito mishap, they are having to eat their words with the real truth of what this dirt bag is really like.

I had my doubts about the character of a guy like Pouncey as well when he and his brother wore those "FREE HERNANDEZ" hats. Now it appears he too is a bully as well as a bad judge of character.

Incognito deserves to be booted from the league for all of the dirty things he has done his entire career, but this is going to be the straw that broke the camels back, and I applaud Martin for taking a stand and speaking out.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...miami-dolphins
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Old 02-14-2014   #303
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Wells Report: http://www.nfldolphinsreport.com/

Quote:
After a thorough examination of the facts, we conclude that three starters
on the Dolphins offensive line, Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Mike Pouncey, engaged
in a pattern of harassment directed at not only Martin, but also another young Dolphins
offensive lineman, whom we refer to as Player A for confidentiality reasons, and a
member of the training staff, whom we refer to as the Assistant Trainer. We find that the
Assistant Trainer repeatedly was targeted with racial slurs and other racially derogatory
language. Player A frequently was subjected to homophobic name-calling and improper
physical touching.
Martin was taunted on a persistent basis with sexually explicit
remarks about his sister and his mother and at times ridiculed with racial insults and other
offensive comments
Quote:
These text messages also corroborate Martin’s claims that he viewed his
teammates’ taunting as unwanted and that he was distraught over his failure to challenge
them. His parents’ worried responses show that they recognized that their son was
experiencing significant psychological turmoil.

On April 22, 2013, Martin wrote to his mother:
Quote:
I figured out a major source of my anxiety. I’m a push over,
a people pleaser. I avoid confrontation whenever I can, I
always want everyone to like me. I let people talk about
me, say anything to my face, and I just take it, laugh it off,
even when I know they are intentionally trying to
disrespect me. I mostly blame the soft schools I went to,
which fostered within me a feeling that I’m a huge pu$$y,
as I never got into fights. I used to get verbally bullied
every day in middle school and high school, by kids that
are half my size. I would never fight back, just get sad &
feel like no one wanted to be my friend, when in fact I was
just being socially awkward. Most people in that situation
are witty & quick with sarcastic replies, I never have been.
I’m awkward around people a lot of the time because I
simply don’t know how to act around them . . .
Shortly thereafter, Martin’s mother responded:
Quote:
My first thought is that I am glad you wrote this down as a
way to start figuring it out. There are people in the world
with their own insecurities and they tend to be bullies and
confront people. Dealing with them can be a challenge. I
think when you feel really good about yourself they won’t

bother you as much because you won’t let them define you.
This fits into wanting to please and be liked. Some people
out there are not worth it. W e do live in a bubble. Financial
and
professional success is sheltering. W hich is both good and
bad. I think the NFL has a disproportionate share of people
who are obscure but masking it with aggression. Your
profession is really difficult with measurement and
evaluation every week. So we need to build up you liking
you. This is where some professional help would be good.
They can help you structure your thoughts. And that whole
brain chemistry thing is real. You may need some
additional seratonin. . . .
Martin, however, seemed unconvinced that his mother’s suggested
solutions would be sufficient to alleviate his anguish. The same day, he wrote to her:
Quote:
I care about my legacy as a professional athlete. But I’m
miserable currently. A therapist & medication won’t help
me gain the respect of my teammates. I really don’t know
what to do Mom
On April 29, 2013, Martin sent the following message to his father, which
included a reference to the dinner in Fort Lauderdale where Martin says Incognito had
called him a “nword” and a complaint about insults concerning his sister:
Quote:
People call me a nword to my face. Happened 2 days ago.
And I laughed it off. Because I am too nice of a person.
They say terrible things about my sister. I don’t do
anything. I suppose it’s white private school conditioning,
turning the other cheek
Martin’s father responded:
Quote:
They think nword is okay because black people use it. Tell
them you don’t use it and it is never okey and if they do it
again then they can kiss your black ass. Likewise say that
your sister is a Madonna. If they say it again they can kiss
your ass. If they do say either again then just stare at them
give them and give them your finger.

Just so you know, I punked out many times including over
nword. Also over just being black. Mot proud of it in the
least. It is just a matter of understanding your own strength.
Had 3 white boys outside of a bowling alley calling me
nword. I backed down.
Had a Harvard a$$hole talk about my suntan. I backed
down. Just stay who you are.
Also, I learned how to pop a bully in his mouth and kicked
one in his balls.
On May 5, after feeling humiliated by Incognito and Pouncey during a
yacht trip, Martin sent his mother these messages:
Quote:
I’m never gonna change. I got punked again today. Like a
little b!tch. And I never do anything about it.
I was sobbing in a rented yacht bathroom earlier

Last edited by Playoffs; 02-14-2014 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 02-14-2014   #304
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Quote:
Ted Wells in his report: "We reject the assertion by Incognito that Martin has fabricated claims of harassment after the fact."
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Quote:
Richie Incognito kept a fine book for OL kangaroo court. On 11/3, he texted players “They’re going to suspend me. Please destroy fine book

Jonathan Martin paid Richie Incognito a $10,000.00 fine, by check, for failing to attend an OL gathering in Vegas, per Ted Wells’ report. Wow.

A Dolphins assistant trainer is of Japanese descent. Incognito, Pouncey & Jerry “called his mother a ‘rub and tug masseuse,’” per the report
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Quote:
Wells: Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner gave a player a male blowup doll as a Christmas gift. Told the investigators he didn’t remember doing it

Wells: “Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner was aware of the running “joke” that Player A was gay, and on at least 1 occasion, he participated
Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout
Quote:
According to #Dolphins "fine book", Mike Pouncey was fined $100 for being subpoenaed by FBI [in Aaron Hernandez investigation]. (Wells Report)

Last edited by Playoffs; 02-14-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 02-14-2014   #305
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

I feel bad for Martin. There really isn't anything he could have done to make that situation any better, his best option was to leave the team. When people push you so far that you start believing it is your fault and you are flawed, forcing you into depression and suicidal thoughts, they are crossing a line.

It's extreme sad to read his text messages to his mother and father. It really shows his mental state after being put down on a daily basis for over a year.

The report states that some players felt that Incognito was a cancer that divided locker rooms. Harassing a trainer and two teammates sounds more like dividing an entire organization to me.

The Miami Dolphins is a crappy organization. Philbin should be fired. If the head coach can't be aware of such activities, he's not doing his job properly. It is not enough to claim that you are simply unaware when you are the leader of the team. Information wasn't passed along to him that two assistants knew about and even sometimes participated in such activities? That wouldn't fly with me if I were the owner.

I'd cut Pouncey and Jerry as well. They themselves, without Incognito, have been found to be complete *******s/idiots in this entire mess as well. No player is worth that baggage.
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Old 02-14-2014   #306
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Richie's fine notebook:



Quote:
artin was one of three Dolphins employees who were regularly treated this way by Incognito, Mike Pouncey and John Jerry. The others were an unnamed offensive lineman and an assistant trainer from Japan, which was the subject of specific racial taunts from Incognito and the others.
From the report:
The Assistant Trainer was born in Japan and attended university there through 2001, before emigrating to the United States. Martin said that Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey directed racial slurs at the Assistant Trainer, calling him a "Jap," a "Chinaman" and a "chink"; referred to him as a "dirty communist" or a "North Korean"; made demands such as "give me some water you ****ing chink"; spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for "rubby rubby sucky sucky"; and called his mother a "rub and tug masseuse." Martin also informed us that Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer by saying that they had had sex with his girlfriend.
That behavior included this incident:
On December 7, 2012, the anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem (which the Assistant Trainer had given them) and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. According to Martin, the Assistant Trainer confided in him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor comments, finding them derogatory toward his heritage.

...

Offensive line coach Mike Turner participated in the bullying as well, according to the report. Turner played dumb when asked about it.
During the 2012 Christmas season, Coach Turner gave all of the offensive linemen gift bags that included a variety of stocking stuffers. In each gift bag except for Player A's, Turner included a female "blow-up" doll; Player A's bag included a male doll. Martin and another player were surprised that Turner did this; Martin further said that he was offended that Turner had endorsed the humiliating treatment of Player A by participating in it. Incognito and others agreed that this incident with Coach Turner occurred. When interviewed, Turner was asked if he gave Player A a male blow-up doll. He replied, "I can't remember." We do not believe that Turner forgot this incident, which many others recalled.

...

Martin and other witnesses informed us that Player A was repeatedly called a "******" and subjected to other homophobic invective. Incognito stated that Player A, although not actually believed to be gay, was subject to these taunts repeatedly and persistently—he got it "every day from everybody, high frequency." According to Incognito, Player A was a "good kid" and he "took it well," never asking his teammates to stop.

Incognito and others acknowledged that Player A was routinely touched by Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey in a mockingly suggestive manner, including on his rear end, while being taunted about his supposed homosexuality. Incognito specifically admitted that he would grab Player A and ask for a hug as part of this "joke."

Martin said that on one occasion, Pouncey physically restrained Player A and, in full view of other players, jokingly told Jerry to "come get some *****," and that Jerry responded by touching Player A's buttocks in a way that simulated anal penetration. Pouncey and Jerry both denied this allegation. Given the seriousness of this allegation and the conflicting recollections, we decline to make any findings about this particular alleged incident.

The evidence shows that [Offensive Line Coach Jim Turner] overheard and participated in this behavior toward Player A. During the 2012 Christmas season, Coach Turner gave all of the offensive linemen gift bags that included a variety of stocking stuffers. In each gift bag except for Player A's, Turner included a female "blow-up" doll; Player A's bag included a male doll.

...
Anyone still on Richie's side?
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Old 02-14-2014   #307
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

I was sobbing in a rented yacht bathroom earlier
******
I feel sorry for this kid, but he may have to make a career change especially now with all of this coming out. Way too much very personal info not the least of which is Martin's correspondence with Mommy & Daddy. Fortunately for hisself he's got a Stanford education.
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Old 02-14-2014   #308
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
I was sobbing in a rented yacht bathroom earlier
******
I feel sorry for this kid, but he may have to make a career change especially now with all of this coming out. Way too much very personal info not the least of which is Martin's correspondence with Mommy & Daddy. Fortunately for hisself he's got a Stanford education.
This is one thing we agree on. After today I think they're both done in the league. It would be different if Martin was playing up to his potential, but he's kind of been a bust since entering the league.
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Old 02-14-2014   #309
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Default Re: Ted Wells report released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
NFL.com reports that according to the Ted Wells report, Richie Incognito, John Jerry, Mike Pouncey engaged in pattern of harassment directed at not only Jonathan Martin, but also others.

I love this. After all the fluff pieces NFL.com wrote after the Smith Incognito mishap, they are having to eat their words with the real truth of what this dirt bag is really like.

I had my doubts about the character of a guy like Pouncey as well when he and his brother wore those "FREE HERNANDEZ" hats. Now it appears he too is a bully as well as a bad judge of character.

Incognito deserves to be booted from the league for all of the dirty things he has done his entire career, but this is going to be the straw that broke the camels back, and I applaud Martin for taking a stand and speaking out.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...miami-dolphins

Sunday School class/Daycare is now open.

We wouldn't want any old mean dirty players on the Texans HOF OL. Atleast you didn't call Incognito a racist as some were doing earlier before all of the facts started coming out.

I personally could care less about what goes on in an NFL lockerroom. It's entertainment. I do care about winning on the field.

Have we heard from player A?
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Old 02-14-2014   #310
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
This is one thing we agree on. After today I think they're both done in the league. It would be different if Martin was playing up to his potential, but he's kind of been a bust since entering the league.
I'm not even sure Martin is going to want to play in the NFL again. For more reasons than his experience in this whole situation.
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Old 02-14-2014   #311
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Default Re: Ted Wells report released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
NFL.com reports that according to the Ted Wells report, Richie Incognito, John Jerry, Mike Pouncey engaged in pattern of harassment directed at not only Jonathan Martin, but also others.

I love this. After all the fluff pieces NFL.com wrote after the Smith Incognito mishap, they are having to eat their words with the real truth of what this dirt bag is really like.

I had my doubts about the character of a guy like Pouncey as well when he and his brother wore those "FREE HERNANDEZ" hats. Now it appears he too is a bully as well as a bad judge of character.

Incognito deserves to be booted from the league for all of the dirty things he has done his entire career, but this is going to be the straw that broke the camels back, and I applaud Martin for taking a stand and speaking out.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...miami-dolphins
yep. I have no doubt that Roger Goodell is going to come down hard on these a-holes.

You don't mess with the integrity of the NFL shield, and these clowns just threw crap all over it with their actions.

Especially when mainstream media like CNN and Sports Illustrated post this headline:

Quote:
Goodell needs to send message and eliminate culture of harassment

There are two things you need to understand about the Wells Report on Richie Incognito. One is that Incognito called teammate Jonathan Martin all sorts of racial epithets, he seems to treat women the way some people treat paper cups, and he taunted and harassed other players and an assistant trainer.

The other thing: Incognito knew most of that would be in the Wells Report, and he still thought the report would make him look good.

Why did Incognito believe that, after eight NFL seasons with three franchises? What does that say about the NFL? He thought his behavior was fine. That is the big issue here -- bigger than Incognito and Martin, and bigger than the Miami Dolphins.

Does NFL commissioner Roger Goodell want an NFL that makes Richie Incognito a team captain? Or does he want a league that welcomes Michael Sam?

-------------------------------------

It's time for the NFL to end this boys-will-be-boys nonsense. These are men. Make them act like it. A little teasing is fine, but if it's not OK in the NFL's New York offices, it should not be OK in an NFL locker room. A workplace is a workplace, whether the employees wear neckties or helmets.

Full article
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Old 02-14-2014   #312
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Default Re: Ted Wells report released

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Sunday School class/Daycare is now open.

We wouldn't want any old mean dirty players on the Texans HOF OL. Atleast you didn't call Incognito a racist as some were doing earlier before all of the facts started coming out.
Sounds like a racist to me. He not only used racial slurs but in texts to a white teammate talked about how specific guns would be good for killing black people, in multiple instances. Associating with black people doesn't give you a free pass to make strange statements like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I personally could care less about what goes on in an NFL lockerroom. It's entertainment. I do care about winning on the field.

Have we heard from player A?
I almost fully agree with this, but I do hope that we never have a locker room situation in which this type of thing is going on.

I don't think a team with this type of culture can ever truly become a champion. People need to have some kind of bond to be a special group. Too many people don't respond well in this type of culture.

Last edited by TexansSeminole; 02-14-2014 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 02-14-2014   #313
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Default Re: Ted Wells report released

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Sounds like a racist to me. He not only used racial slurs but in texts to a white teammate talked about how specific guns would be good for killing black people, in multiple instances. Associating with black people doesn't give you a free pass to make strange statements like that.



I almost fully agree with this, but I do hope that we never have a locker room situation in which this type of thing is going on.

I don't think a team with this type of culture can ever truly become a champion. People need to have some kind of bond to be a special group. Too many people don't respond well in this type of culture.
True

Micheal Irvin stabbed Everrett McKyer in the neck with a pair of scissors for taking Irvin's spot in the barbers chair and those Cowboys teams were pretty good.

The coaches got on Charles Haley in the meeting room in SF. Haley proceeded to drop trou and take a crap on the floor. Those 49ers teams were pretty good. It's about talent/brains more than anything else.
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Old 02-14-2014   #314
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Everyone has met a Johnathon Martin before. He was that kid who when teased/bullied 1)took it personally and 2)was unable to respond. It's surprising that he did not have a firm enough sense of self to extract himself from that trio by choosing different team members to hang with, but I can't fault him for that.

How does no one in that lockerroom stand up for the Japanese trainer those knuckleheads were targeting??? Or the gay teammate? When will the character guys intervene and say "enough is enough"?

I have zero tolerance for bullying. Martin obviously brought his own weaknesses to this environment..... but is he required to fistfight his teammates to neutralize them? What if he breaks his hand or Richie's jaw? What if he hits him with a weight or some other weapon?

I lay the blame for this at the feet of the Dolphins organization. I have less disdain for Incognito and Pouncey -- who needed to be trained -- than I do the people who ignored this. Somebody needed to be the adult here... no one stood up. That, imo, is cowardice.
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Old 02-14-2014   #315
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
How does no one in that lockerroom stand up for the Japanese trainer those knuckleheads were targeting???
Yep. You know, the guys all over this topic with "Martin should have just punched the guy" as a solution - what's this little trainer guy do? I'm betting he'd have a hard time whipping Incognito's ass. Maybe he should just snap and shoot him in the parking lot?

Bullies are a problem when they're allowed to be a problem. It's the problem I always had with the school system. I was the type of kid to fight back. Literally got into hundreds of fights. When those fights occurred on school grounds, I got into trouble because "fighting is wrong". Well then, have the bully stop bullying and I won't have to handle it, right?

*sigh* I hate people.
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Old 02-14-2014   #316
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Would you invite him to camp just to give him a little

wait for it

wait for it

wait for it

education?
If by education you mean Antonio smith smashing his skull with an encyclopedia then sure. Why not?
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Old 02-14-2014   #317
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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I'm looking at the alternative....... I don't like Incognito as a person just as much as anyone else. But from my understanding he has been graded as an above average Guard in the league for a few years now. Is he dirty? Yes. Cheap shot artist? Has been known to be at least to our team. Is he better than what we have on the team right now and probably what we can afford? Probably.

Listen, when I said that I know that its not going to happen. I also wouldn't mind having Calvin Johnson play for us.
Man incognito is bad news and simply not worth the headache. Just my IMO.
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Old 02-14-2014   #318
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Default Re: Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
This is one thing we agree on. After today I think they're both done in the league. It would be different if Martin was playing up to his potential, but he's kind of been a bust since entering the league.
Perhaps he was not playing to his potential because he was being bullied and harassed every single day he was there. Kind of hard to focus when you are neck deep in that kind of thing.

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Sunday School class/Daycare is now open.

We wouldn't want any old mean dirty players on the Texans HOF OL. Atleast you didn't call Incognito a racist as some were doing earlier before all of the facts started coming out.

I personally could care less about what goes on in an NFL lockerroom. It's entertainment. I do care about winning on the field.

Have we heard from player A?
How did I know we would be at opposite ends of this discussion? Where is your "Majority is right" attitude now? Seems like decent human beings feel like this was more than just some kidding around with a teammate, but not you. You are going to defend a dirtbag like Incognito.

You didn't think a guy was walking away from millions of dollars because of some good old fashioned ribbing did you? You had to know it was something serious, and so while I do not believe in convicting a guy in the court of public opinion before all of the evidence is, where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Were you defending Hernandez too ? All the evidence is not in there yet either, but there is a lot of smoke in that case.

Your tough guy, no sissies allowed attitude is comical. Is that what you would tell your kid were he in this situation, even if he were a college or pro player? "Suck it up you p*ssy"

And just for the record... the phrase is "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less"

You sticking up for a guy like Incognito is sad, but I guess it's true what they say. "Birds of a feather, flock together"
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Old 02-14-2014   #319
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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If by education you mean Antonio smith smashing his skull with an encyclopedia then sure. Why not?
That's precisely what I had in mind. But I guess we would have to resign Antonio.
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Old 02-15-2014   #320
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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That's precisely what I had in mind. But I guess we would have to resign Antonio.
If incognito and antonio smith played on the same team Hard Knocks would cream themselves.
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