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Old 02-03-2014   #141
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

Yeah, as much as I hate on him, he actually has a possibility of an NFL career unlike the other two.

He is definitely better, but the question is, is that good enough?

I say no unless he meets the team requirements I spoke about in post #129.
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Old 02-04-2014   #142
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
Even if McCarron is better than we collective doubt he is, his decision to skip the Senior Bowl (even to prevent aggravating some minor injury - Clowney and Ebron still decided to show) and now potentially not even throw the ball? He needs to drop whomever is giving him advice like 3rd period French, and fast.
I like him as a fourth round backup to Case.
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Old 02-04-2014   #143
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Well I'm just going to have to disagree with all of you. I think the kid can play at a high level & don't see the limitations you mention. Sure he's not as athletic as Kaepernick, but that is not a requirement for success in the NFL.

He's got everything I'm looking for in a QB & I wouldn't hesitate to take him at 1-1 if I thought I needed to. But since he is so underrated I'll target him later in the draft.

We'll just have to wait & see.

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1-1? Are you kidding or serious?
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Old 02-04-2014   #144
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
He's got everything I'm looking for in a QB & I wouldn't hesitate to take him at 1-1 if I thought I needed to. But since he is so underrated I'll target him later in the draft.
Personally I dont think its a good idea to draft players based on other teams boards or rankings. If you have AJ rated as a first round prospect then you better take him at 1.1. Waiting around because you think others have him rated lower spells disaster if he is "your guy."
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Old 02-04-2014   #145
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
1-1? Are you kidding or serious?
Dead serious.

When I consider taking a QB with the #1 overall pick, he's got to meet certain criteria.

Size... check
Successful career..... check
Prolific... check
Major Program... check
Good arm.... check
Sound mechanics... check
Pro offense.... check
Competitive... check
Smart... check
Hot Super Model girlfriend/wife... check

He's as good a prospect as Lienart was & Lienart was considered the best QB of both the 2005 & 2006 draft. Without the benefit of hindsight, Lienart would probably be the best QB in this draft.

I know people will look at Lienart & say he was a bust, which is true, but I don't think that means McCarron will be a bust. As far as prospects go, it doesn't get much better than Lienart. Well, it does but then you're talking once in a lifetime type players. McCarron's not once in a lifetime, but he's worthy of the #1 overall.

Luckily I'm the only who thinks that way & we can most likely get him in the second.
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Old 02-04-2014   #146
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Dead serious.

When I consider taking a QB with the #1 overall pick, he's got to meet certain criteria.

Size... check
Successful career..... check
Prolific... check
Major Program... check
Good arm.... check
Sound mechanics... check
Pro offense.... check
Competitive... check
Smart... check
Hot Super Model girlfriend/wife... check

He's as good a prospect as Lienart was & Lienart was considered the best QB of both the 2005 & 2006 draft. Without the benefit of hindsight, Lienart would probably be the best QB in this draft.

I know people will look at Lienart & say he was a bust, which is true, but I don't think that means McCarron will be a bust. As far as prospects go, it doesn't get much better than Lienart. Well, it does but then you're talking once in a lifetime type players. McCarron's not once in a lifetime, but he's worthy of the #1 overall.

Luckily I'm the only who thinks that way & we can most likely get him in the second.
Leinart is the poster boy for prospects like McCarron. You're taking the #1 reason not to take McCarron and trying to spin it around as the reason you should take him. Plenty of scouts pointed out the potential risks with Leinart but he ended up being drafted high anyway, probably based off of a chart like the one above.

Just because Leinart was drafted in the 1st round doesn't mean that he deserved to be. He busted because he was clearly overrated as a prospect. He didn't have a NFL caliber arm, he played behind an awesome OL who protected him so cleanly that he never had to play under pressure. He had probably the best running game in the country supporting him. He had big WRs who just dominated smaller less talented defenders. He had a defense loaded with future NFL stars that kept him from having to carry his team.

Basically, if he was surrounded by premier talent he looked like a premier QB. But he couldn't elevate the talent around him. They actually elevated him.So when he got to the NFL and every team had similar talent, his flaws became magnified.
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Old 02-07-2014   #147
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes
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Stayed up until 4 AM watching AJ McCarron. Not sure if it was the sleep deprivation but I began to see some Kyle Orton in him. #NFLDraft
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Old 02-07-2014   #148
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes
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Stayed up until 4 AM watching AJ McCarron. Not sure if it was the sleep deprivation but I began to see some Kyle Orton in him. #NFLDraft
Does he elaborate on this any? I found this...
Quote:
Pro Potential
Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league.

Best fit
Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two solid NFL QB in a few years.
That's not what I saw when I watched McCarron. I understand the knock on him, that he played with "too much talent" & I'll agree that he's probably the most experienced QB in this draft with a clean pocket, I don't think anyone else had seen such a clean pocket with the frequency McCarron did.

But that kid brought a lot more to the table than he's getting credit for.
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Old 02-07-2014   #149
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Serious question, did Brady?
Not really, and that was the point - though Brady struggled with a lot more. I don't know if that same level of drive exists in McCarron, but that's getting into motivation talk and that's where lesser sportswriters make their living.
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Old 02-07-2014   #150
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
Not really, and that was the point - though Brady struggled with a lot more. I don't know if that same level of drive exists in McCarron, but that's getting into motivation talk and that's where lesser sportswriters make their living.
Brady didn't have the same drive in college that he took to the NFL. He was looked over in college with the whole Henson ordeal, but he still had a good career and earned the stigma of "captain comeback" during his senior year.

However, it was at the NFL combine when scouts literally made fun of him and he fell to the 6th round that he developed the biggest chip on his shoulder that any player has ever had. He started watching film 8 hours a day, every day, and was Bledsoe's shadow every second during practice. The guy lived for the chance where he could make fools of everyone who had doubted him. When he got his chance, he set out on a mission to prove them all wrong.

I don't see that same drive in McCarron, but that kind of drive is rare so that shouldn't be a knock on AJ at all.
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Old 02-07-2014   #151
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Brady didn't have the same drive in college that he took to the NFL. He was looked over in college with the whole Henson ordeal, but he still had a good career and earned the stigma of "captain comeback" during his senior year.

However, it was at the NFL combine when scouts literally made fun of him and he fell to the 6th round that he developed the biggest chip on his shoulder that any player has ever had. He started watching film 8 hours a day, every day, and was Bledsoe's shadow every second during practice. The guy lived for the chance where he could make fools of everyone who had doubted him. When he got his chance, he set out on a mission to prove them all wrong.

I don't see that same drive in McCarron, but that kind of drive is rare so that shouldn't be a knock on AJ at all.
Am I the only one who sees this as unrealized upside (College Tom) which is not available in (College Teddy) who is already doing these things?
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Old 02-07-2014   #152
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Am I the only one who sees this as unrealized upside (College Tom) which is not available in (College Teddy) who is already doing these things?
One of the things that worries me about Bridgewater is that this may be as good as it gets. Drive & determination are great, man among boys... great... but I don't see the path for growth.

Manziel (& I'm not advocating we draft Manziel at 1-1) is playing at a high level & he's not even doing it right. He still has a lot to learn. Maybe he'll never get there, but his upside is way out there in comparison.

Bortles is playing at a similar level & you can see lots of room for improvement.
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Old 02-08-2014   #153
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
One of the things that worries me about Bridgewater is that this may be as good as it gets. Drive & determination are great, man among boys... great... but I don't see the path for growth.

Manziel (& I'm not advocating we draft Manziel at 1-1) is playing at a high level & he's not even doing it right. He still has a lot to learn. Maybe he'll never get there, but his upside is way out there in comparison.

Bortles is playing at a similar level & you can see lots of room for improvement.
Come on man, I get that you don't like Bridgewater and all, but don't you think it is a little absurd to say he might be "too good at this point" and count that as a negative? Seems like you are just grasping at straws now...

Every single player in every single sport always has room for improvement.
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Old 02-08-2014   #154
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Come on man, I get that you don't like Bridgewater and all, but don't you think it is a little absurd to say he might be "too good at this point" and count that as a negative? Seems like you are just grasping at straws now...

Every single player in every single sport always has room for improvement.
You have to take what he said in context , this isn't about how good he is , but if he can be any better than he is .... and he has a solid point , I don't see a lot of room for improvement outside of cleaning up his mechanics and getting that little loop out of his throwing motion.

He does everything well. What can he do better to be a better player in the future ?? His best asset , his pocket presence .... cant be taught.

I really wish he had played in a power conference ....
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Old 02-08-2014   #155
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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You have to take what he said in context , this isn't about how good he is , but if he can be any better than he is .... and he has a solid point , I don't see a lot of room for improvement outside of cleaning up his mechanics and getting that little loop out of his throwing motion.

He does everything well. What can he do better to be a better player in the future ?? His best asset , his pocket presence .... cant be taught.

I really wish he had played in a power conference ....
Context doesn't matter, if you are saying you don't like a guy because he can't do anything better then he already does at the age of 21 then you are just reaching for reasons to hate on a guy you obviously already don't like (which is Bridgewater in thunders case).

I say again, every player has room for improvement. The leap from college football to the NFL is so vast that you have to improve so much just to even make a roster.

Seriously, the discussion in this place has gotten so weird...we aren't even analyzing a players actual abilities anymore and instead just making up talking points that aren't even there...I swear by the end of this month we will be talking about which QB is the best looking and whether or not that will effect his confidence and spill over into games. Not pointing fingers, we all are doing it. I can't wait until at least the combine has passed so we have some more actual data to analyze .
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Old 02-08-2014   #156
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Context doesn't matter, if you are saying you don't like a guy because he can't do anything better then he already does at the age of 21 then you are just reaching for reasons to hate on a guy you obviously already don't like (which is Bridgewater in thunders case).

I say again, every player has room for improvement. The leap from college football to the NFL is so vast that you have to improve so much just to even make a roster.

Seriously, the discussion in this place has gotten so weird...we aren't even analyzing a players actual abilities anymore and instead just making up talking points that aren't even there...I swear by the end of this month we will be talking about which QB is the best looking and whether or not that will effect his confidence and spill over into games. Not pointing fingers, we all are doing it. I can't wait until at least the combine has passed so we have some more actual data to analyze .
Dude , much of this process and all of the $$$$$ is about "how good they can be in the future" .... Not "how good are they now".

Having room for improvement and having the ability to improving are two different things. If you have maxed out your ability .... you don't improve further.

If Bridgewater has reached his best , he's not a candidate for 1:1.

(I'm not saying he has , just trying to explain the concept which seems lost)
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Old 02-08-2014   #157
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
One of the things that worries me about Bridgewater is that this may be as good as it gets. Drive & determination are great, man among boys... great... but I don't see the path for growth.

Manziel (& I'm not advocating we draft Manziel at 1-1) is playing at a high level & he's not even doing it right. He still has a lot to learn. Maybe he'll never get there, but his upside is way out there in comparison.

Bortles is playing at a similar level & you can see lots of room for improvement.
I don`t know why you are worried about Bridgewater. For one thing, he has a killer drive and determination (as you pointed out), is a film nut and has huge football intelligence. Those are the kind of guys that try to get better every day and that know how to do it. Facing NFL defenses will make him better. The biggest knock on him was the competition he faced. But he is the kind of guy that will only get better, after facing better competition. Because after every game he will watch 100 hours of tape, find out exactly what he did wrong and figure out how to do it better the next time.

And he hasn`t filled out his body yet. He will get bigger and stronger. His biggest weakness so far was his deep throw accuracy (more arm strength and coaching can fix that). Other knocks on him has been minor technical issues (little hitch in the throwing motion, holding the ball to low, footwork not always perfect when facing pressure) - all of those things can be corrected with good coaching.

He won`t get taller and he won`t get bigger hands - he won`t ever be a natural runner like Manziel (though he is a pretty decent runner). But besides that all his weakness can be improved. And having a guy with a tremendous drive and football intelligence really helps in that regard. So I don`t know why you are worried about Bridgewater in that regard.
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Old 02-08-2014   #158
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

Not much to add after multiple brilliant posts on subject matter, being AJ McCarron. But one thing for sure, that is so difficult to measure, is a players innermost desire & motivation. The proverbial, chip on the shoulder. Best thing in the world for AJ would be for him to slip to the 6th round, then let the Brady comparisons roll.
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Old 02-08-2014   #159
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

If you look at what I said... "Manziel ain't doing it right & is highly successful" & I'll add against "the stiffest competition" just imagine how much better he could be if he were to do it "right" staying in the pocket, playing within the system until he absolutely have to adlib & make something up.

As far as his college production goes, I'll give him an 8. Yards, TDs, INTs, accuracy, yadda, yadda, yadda.... if he were playing in a pro system (no fault of his that he isn't) & was making calls at the line with the production he has, I'd give him a 10.

Bridgewater (who I do not hate & would be just as happy if the Texans selected him as if they selected Manziel..... especially at 1-1, which I wouldn't be to thrilled with either) gets the same 8. Except he gets it because he is making the reads & calls at the line, because he is playing in a pro style offense.

Manziel can get better when he learns the pro system, making calls at the line, bringing him to a 9. He might get worse, he might not be able to do it.... but if he does, he gets better, his score improves.

Bridgewater's not going to get better from that aspect, because he already knows how to play in a pro system. He stays at an 8.

Bridgewater should get better with time, the NFL should "slow down" for him, he'll learn to manipulate the defense, blah, blah, blah, his score will improve to a 9.

Manziel should get better with time, the NFL should "slow down" for him. May not, he may be a hopeless cause, but he might & if he does, he'll go to a 10.

Manziel has more paths to improve than Bridgewater, that's all I'm saying. Now you may not agree that they are both starting out at 8, & that's fine. But anyone considering Manziel at 1-1 (I'm not, & I'm not saying that anyone is, but we are having this conversation.... so...) thinks they are relatively close right now.
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Old 02-08-2014   #160
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Default Re: AJ McCarron

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Not much to add after multiple brilliant posts on subject matter, being AJ McCarron. But one thing for sure, that is so difficult to measure, is a players innermost desire & motivation. The proverbial, chip on the shoulder. Best thing in the world for AJ would be for him to slip to the 6th round, then let the Brady comparisons roll.
If he goes to the Patriots, or Steelers in the 6th. Going to the Cardinals or Bills, or one of these other QB black holes... not so much.
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