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Old 02-05-2014   #2001
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
annnnd Texas A&M's 85th ranked defense had nooooothing to do with those loses?

You hang 40+ on a team and lose, that isn't on the QB. You give up 5 TDs in the first 5 possessions to
D-U-K-E, has nothing to do with the QB....

Can't hang the problems of a horrible A&M defense on Manziel's shoulders when Manziel has no control of that matter. That falls on Sumlin...

nice try, thanks for playing...
Throws two INT in each game against Alabama and Auburn, with QBR's below 80.0 in both games, and it's Sumlin's fault? I will give you these because the defense did give up a lot of points.

Scoring only 10 points against LSU, going 16-41 with 2 INT and a QBR below 15.0 was Sumlin's fault?

Only 1 TD throw against Mizzou with a QBR below 50.0 was Sumlin's fault?

BTW, the Aggie defense gave up two of it lowest point totals against SEC teams in these games against LSU and Mizzou when Johnny played so spectacularly.

Poor JFF. He would be the greatest ever if not for Sumlin...
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Old 02-05-2014   #2002
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Default Re: Texans MUST TAKE Manziel.

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Look at where A&M's defense ranks in the most important category. Hint: they aren't on page 1. Team Scoring Defense

You're a fool if you think "Johnny Freaking Football" was the reason they lost to every ranked SEC team. If you did more than look at the final score of the Duke game, you'd also have seen how atrocious his defense was in that game, and it took some serious leadership abilities to bring his team back.
Go ahead and check his stat line and QBR in those end of season back to back losses to LSU and Mizzou and get back with me on how that was all on the defense...
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Old 02-05-2014   #2003
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Default Re: Manziel

My Bevo-dar is going off...

You're throwing out meaningless stats. Other than the LSU game Manziel performed well in all of them. Watch tape instead of just saying "well this happened or that happened." I was there for every single game Manziel played in. I'll tell you that he wasn't the reason we lost.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2004
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
anybody catch first take this morning?

Stephen A Smith absolutely crushed bill o brien for saying he questions manziel's work ethic.

He absolutely ethered o brien's baseless accusations.

Skip said that Nick Saban said he has never in all of his years coaching football come across a competitor like Manziel.

I dont understand why we cant just judge manziel on what he does on the football field.

Sounds to me like obrien made that take without any evidence whatsoever and just wanted to pollute the air. Stephen A said it best, if you dont like johnny football as a player, just say that. Dont make baseless accusations like he doesnt believe in his work ethic just to slander the guy.

Im telling you right now, passing up on that kind of talent and potential will haunt the texans.

It will be randy moss 2.0 all over again.
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless are complete Ass clowns and should never be used to back up your argument. ESPN's first take is literally the laughing stock of all sports talk shows.

Part of me feels as if Im speaking with Manziel's father which if I am...Im sorry sir...no disrespect. Your son is a fine athlete but you should have spanked his ass a few more times when he was younger.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2005
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
It will be randy moss 2.0 all over again.
Love how you avoid the much more analogous and obvious comparison - it will be Vince Young 2.0 all over again.

But since you go with Randy Moss for some inexplicable reason, how many SB rings does Randy have?

Now how many rings for teams that passed on him (which doesn't include the Texans since they didn't exist)? - that would be 10.

So what's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
everybody loves to denigrate and clown on skip and stephen a yet they have the most popular sports debate show in the morning and everybody knows them.
That's because imbeciles need entertainment too.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2006
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Default Re: Manziel

I don't like Johnny Manziel as a player.

He has some fixable issues but a lot of my issues with him cannot or probably just will not be fixed.

I don't like his size. I don't think height is as important as most people do but it is still an issue. He is too reliant on his legs. He got better at this in his second year but his legs are still his primary weapon instead of his arm. He relies far too much on improvisation and doesn't stay on schedule. He won't be able to out-athlete everybody at the next level and will need to learn how to stay within the concept of the designed play instead of turning three out of every five plays into backyard football.

He throws off of his back foot far too often. He consistently makes dangerous throws into coverage or down the middle of the field because he knows his WRs are bigger and stronger than the defenders, something he may not have in the NFL.

He plays in a glorified high school offense with basically zero mental responsibility from the QB. All the calls, protections, and adjustments are called from the sideline. Nothing about his offense cleanly translates to the NFL, and nothing in his offense has prepared him for the NFL. You will be starting from scratch. I do believe that he has the mental capacity to learn a NFL system, but it is still an issue.

I think that his style of play will need to be adapted to the NFL, thus you may not be getting the same prospect he was in college. I believe his current style of play will lead to a few good/great years at best but not long term success. I'm not comfortable with spending the #1 overall pick on a guy who's style of play does not lend itself to long term success. You could alter his style of play. But I'm not comfortable spending the #1 pick on a prospect that you have to fundamentally alter.

For me, Manziel's absolute best case scenario is Jeff Garcia. With all the things standing in the way of him becoming that, I'm not comfortable taking him #1 overall.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2007
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
everybody loves to denigrate and clown on skip and stephen a yet they have the most popular sports debate show in the morning and everybody knows them. LOL at the laughing stock of all sports talk shows. Talk about overstating. Everybody always tries to trivialize that show yet they are on the biggest sports network and they have a huge fanbase.

but you say they are a laughing stock of all sports talk shows? LOL please.

Everybody watches them and so do you.

And i dont get the whole he's a bad dude, no work ethic slag on Manziel.

Did he rape anybody? Did he murder? Did he rob someone? Did he assault someone? Did he say something racial or derogatory?

What did Manizel really do to get that reputation? Or are we just exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion some harmless hard partying that Manziel did?

Check his film. Check his competition. Check what the other experts are saying. Lets see what he does in the combine and compare all of that vs the other QBs.
I'd buy they are the laughing stock of the sports world, sure. It's the worst sport show I can think of ever. Well, a tie for 1st with PTI and ATH. Haven't seen any of those show in well over a year.

If I'm trying to take a point, I'll pass on using Bayless or Smith, thank you.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2008
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless are complete Ass clowns and should never be used to back up your argument. ESPN's first take is literally the laughing stock of all sports talk shows...
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I don't like Johnny Manziel as a player.

He has some fixable issues but a lot of my issues with him cannot or probably just will not be fixed.

I don't like his size. I don't think height is as important as most people do but it is still an issue. He is too reliant on his legs. He got better at this in his second year but his legs are still his primary weapon instead of his arm. He relies far too much on improvisation and doesn't stay on schedule. He won't be able to out-athlete everybody at the next level and will need to learn how to stay within the concept of the designed play instead of turning three out of every five plays into backyard football.

He throws off of his back foot far too often. He consistently makes dangerous throws into coverage or down the middle of the field because he knows his WRs are bigger and stronger than the defenders, something he may not have in the NFL.

He plays in a glorified high school offense with basically zero mental responsibility from the QB. All the calls, protections, and adjustments are called from the sideline. Nothing about his offense cleanly translates to the NFL, and nothing in his offense has prepared him for the NFL. You will be starting from scratch. I do believe that he has the mental capacity to learn a NFL system, but it is still an issue.

I think that his style of play will need to be adapted to the NFL, thus you may not be getting the same prospect he was in college. I believe his current style of play will lead to a few good/great years at best but not long term success. I'm not comfortable with spending the #1 overall pick on a guy who's style of play does not lend itself to long term success. You could alter his style of play. But I'm not comfortable spending the #1 pick on a prospect that you have to fundamentally alter.

For me, Manziel's absolute best case scenario is Jeff Garcia. With all the things standing in the way of him becoming that, I'm not comfortable taking him #1 overall.
And this. I'd like to know what percentage of his pass plays were executed as called? I see too much of Johnny Improvisation instead of Johnny Football Mind. And he scrambles out of the back of the pocket which is as low percentage as it gets in the NFL.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2009
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
Having superbowl rings is beside the point. The point is you dont pass up on that kind of talent because of some harmless bad publicity.

the point is Randy Moss was passed on because of his off field problems which were a lot worse than Manziel yet Moss had a great career and if you redid the draft with everything you now know, Moss would have been drafted much sooner.
Demonstrably BS since Moss went through 5 teams who wouldn't put up with his crap despite his on-field talent.

Quote:
The vince young comparison i dont get. Is Manziel gonna try to commit suicide like young? Why is it that when you compare you look for the worst comparison? As if Manziel cant get the benefit of the doubt. People always hope for the worst possible scenario and use that as their ceiling instead of giving the player the benefit of the doubt.
Well gee, I know it is subtle:

Texans 1.1
Texas QB from simple system with resume bolstered by a great deal of running.
Top DE in competition for 1.1 with great athleticism and a questionable motor.
Neither has shown any suicide predilection pre-draft

Clearly a cancer like Moss is a better comparison.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2010
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
Name me a better sports alternative on television.
Oh, that's easy. I don't even have to leave ESPN for it either. Sportscenter. It's sports NEWS and not commentary from two guys who are equally certifiable in their own way.

Any sports show that delivers the news in general. Sports commentary shows are for the folks who need others to think for them.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2011
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
He doesnt have to adapt to the nfl. The nfl is the one adapting.

His style of quarterbacking just won the superbowl.

Russell Wilson, Colin Capernick, Cam Newton, RG3, Manziel is cut from the same cloth.
Wilson - 5'11" 206. Played in a pro style offense in college and was much more polished entering the NFL

Kaepernick - 6'4" 230. Bigger, stronger arm, runs like a gazelle.

Newton - 6'5" 245. Cut from the same cloth? LOL

Griffin - 6'2" 218. All conference hurdler with stronger arm. Did play in the same style offense as Manziel and relies on his legs too much so probably the closest you got with these examples. He also appears to be the one out of these four who most likely will have to adapt his game if he wants to sustain long term success.

All four of these guys are better athletes than Manziel. All four have stronger arms than Manziel. Only one of them isn't prototypical size like Manziel. And the one who is his size was the most pro ready of all of them. And all four of them played within the design of their offense and didn't have to rely on improvisation so frequently. And they all had less talent as a supporting cast.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean that it is.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2012
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Default Re: Manziel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6x-O3kb1sI

Richard Sherman is no Bayless fan
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Old 02-05-2014   #2013
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
they are cut from the same cloth. They are playmakers who can hurt you with their arms and legs. You do know cut from the same cloth is a figure of speech not meant to be taken literally right?

And to say Manziel is not a better athlete than either of those guys is just downright inaccurate. Check the film and see the plays that he pulled off vs elite competition.
You would also agree that he is cut from the same cloth as Vince Young and Michael Vick then? Young couldn't adapt and didn't sustain success in the NFL. Vick was forced to adapt his game to succeed long term. Tebow beat elite competition with his arm and his legs. Where is he? Failed to adapt.

I did not say that Manziel is not athletic. But all four of those guys are better athletes than him. One of us needs to check the film, but it is not me. I've studied all five. You have only studied one.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2014
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
You would also agree that he is cut from the same cloth as Vince Young and Michael Vick then? Young couldn't adapt and didn't sustain success in the NFL. Vick was forced to adapt his game to succeed long term.

I did not say that Manziel is not athletic. But all four of those guys are better athletes than him. One of us needs to check the film, but it is not me. I've studied all five. You have only studied one.
Not sure Russell Wilson is a better athalete. Nor has a stronger arm. And the difference in the player you added on is football iq. Young and Vick have none. Manziel has it in spades.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2015
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Default Re: Manziel

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Not sure Russell Wilson is a better athalete. Nor has a stronger arm. And the difference in the player you added on is football iq. Young and Vick have none. Manziel has it in spades.
Manziel is a better athlete but I'd say Wilson has a better arm; he throws a beautiful deep ball. Both are way more accurate than Vick or Young were in college.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2016
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Default Re: Manziel

George Whitfield Jr. ‏@georgewhitfield
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A few thousand yrs later we still have David's... And they are still killing giants. @JManziel2 #DimeCity pic.twitter.com/6TxMCuDU9b


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@JManziel2 at work in #DimeCity 15 days to #NFLCombine @KevOC7 @Dmurr68 @WhitAthletix #surgo pic.twitter.com/BVuImyA6UZ
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Old 02-05-2014   #2017
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
You always give the benefit of the doubt on talent.

TESTED TALENT.

Manziel has talent, potential, heart, and competitive desire in spades. We always complained about our QBs being lame and boring and not being able to make plays, well here is a QB who does that.

I trust this kid's talent and potential. I hope the texans and bill o brien keep an open mind and give this kid an honest look.
I think we will be fine with either of the top three they decide to go with, Manziel, Bortles or BRIDGEWATER. I prefer Bridgewater myself because I know he will be better from the three in the long run.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2018
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Default Re: Manziel

I can't take anyone who watches first take with a straight face seriously. That show is horrid.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2019
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Default Re: Manziel

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I can't take anyone who watches first take with a straight face seriously. That show is horrid.
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Old 02-05-2014   #2020
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I can't take anyone who watches first take with a straight face seriously. That show is horrid.
The poster in question is, based on post history, is JUST the type that would like First Take and defend it as if it were somehow...........legit.
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