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Old 01-24-2014   #21
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by Big Lou View Post
Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.
Folks are missing a big piece of the equation and you have hit on it. Starting last year, but determined on a four year span rather than annually, teams must spend 89% of the salary cap IN CASH not cap hit. So if the caps for 2013-16 are $120, $125, $130 and $135 (total $510 mil) then the teams must spend $453.9 mil in cash over that time period.
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Old 01-24-2014   #22
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Something I have been saying since 2010. Many and most accuse me of being a Debbie Downer, making wild predictions, a hater and host of other derogatory terms. I say it's not wild predictions, alternative histories or anything else, I am simply doing the math.
Only because somehow this salary cap thing found a way to bite us in the middle of December 2011.
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Old 01-24-2014   #23
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League



Image of the same chart the OP posted
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Old 01-24-2014   #24
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick
The fall of Foster, before this season he was one of the most productive backs in the NFL. I dont call one down season because of a season ending injury the fall of foster.

He will be back next season and be just as productive as he was !
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Old 01-24-2014   #25
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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The fall of Foster, before this season he was one of the most productive backs in the NFL. I dont call one down season because of a season ending injury the fall of foster.

He will be back next season and be just as productive as he was !

HE may be back, but will his BACK be back. This is a very bad problem for any player, but much worse for a running back. I warned about this with Cody right after he experienced his initial similar back problem in preseason.
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Old 01-24-2014   #26
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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HE may be back, but will his BACK be back. This is a very bad problem for any player, but much worse for a running back. I warned about this with Cody right after he experienced his initial similar back problem in preseason.
Cloak why you always got to come in with all your college education knowledge and **** on my parade haha

Cant i have my cake and eat it too ?

No man i know he might never be the same, but Foster is a damn good RB, what the 4th fastest to make it to 5,000 yards ? All i'm saying is that i wouldnt count Foster out just yet. And people act like he just started sucking which isnt the case.
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Old 01-25-2014   #27
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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So how's that different than the Patriots? Like I said, we've got twice as many players with a $6M+ cap number than they do & they've only got $5M more than we've got. If Talib was signed for another year, they would be in the same boat.


I do not agree with this. Back loaded contracts, to me, is like money in that bank. The mistake, I think, is letting these guys play out those portions of their contracts. Mario for instance, the Texans should have known (& probably did) what they valued Mario at before the 2011 season, he never should have been allowed to play for $18M, that money should have been converted to a bonus & Mario extended for at least 4 years.

I like Mario, but there's no way he was worth an $18M salary or cap hit. If we couldn't reach a deal, I would have tried to trade him. No other team would have wanted to pay the $18M, but they could have worked out a new contract, just like we did with Schaub. He could have been a Patriot, for a lot less than $96M.

You say you like back loaded contracts but then you say Mario's back loaded contract was a mistake, can't have it both ways, back loaded contracts are detrimental to your salary cap as you explained with all the negative reasons on Mario's contract.

I'm still not seeing it. I can see how you've allowed several facts to add up to a particular result.... but that deterioration has more to do (in my mind) with Schaub second guessing himself, Foster's back issues, & Cushing's knee than it does with an inability to sign quality free agents or replace starters. Kj, Manning, Swearinger, & Jjo were a big part of our problem in 2013 & we paid a pretty penny for each one of them.

Then you take into account that our 2nd round pick (Ben Tate) didn't perform as well as the bum New England picked up off the street (Lagarrett Blount) regardless of the reason.....

Matt Schaub & our secondary, if they'd have played up to their contracts, 2013 would have played out a lot differently. That doesn't sound like mismanaging the salary cap... not the way you're saying. I can understand people who say we spent to much on Schaub or that we shouldn't have extended him & had a replacement in place since 2010. But what you're saying doesn't make sense.
You are using a lot of If's , And's, But's and excuses along with a whole lot of supposition, wishing and hoping to say in your perfect world the Texans would've been 12-4, Division Champs and going to the Super Bowl. When the reality is the Texans would be closer to 8-8 NOT 12-4. The Dallas Cowboys are a team that has a very similar roster and similar salary cap math problems for the last 3 years. For the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 8-8. 8-8 is a whole lot closer to the reality of the situation than the fantasy world you've created through your numerous excuses, if's, and's or but's. Many of your excuses, if's And's or but's are part of the realities of NFL. The one area in Texans favor is the AFC South has been the weak sister of the NFL the last few years. Not any more.
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Old 01-25-2014   #28
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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You say you like back loaded contracts but then you say Mario's back loaded contract was a mistake, can't have it both ways, back loaded contracts are detrimental to your salary cap as you explained with all the negative reasons on Mario's contract.
I said it is a mistake to let the players play out those contracts. You cut him, or extend him. You do not pay him $18M to play one year then let him walk without an offer the next.

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You are using a lot of If's , And's, But's and excuses along with a whole lot of supposition, wishing and hoping to say in your perfect world the Texans would've been 12-4, Division Champs and going to the Super Bowl.
Aren't you doing the same thing, except where I'm saying players should play up to their contracts, you're saying our GM should manage the cap better. However, you say Rick & Chris Olsen are doing it wrong, but they're doing it the same way they do it in New England. Like I said, we've got 8 players making $6M or more, they've got 4 & there's only $5M difference in our cap situation. & if Hernandez wasn't in jail, they'd be even worse.



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When the reality is the Texans would be closer to 8-8 NOT 12-4. The Dallas Cowboys are a team that has a very similar roster and similar salary cap math problems for the last 3 years. For the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 8-8. 8-8 is a whole lot closer to the reality of the situation than the fantasy world you've created through your numerous excuses, if's, and's or but's. Many of your excuses, if's And's or but's are part of the realities of NFL. The one area in Texans favor is the AFC South has been the weak sister of the NFL the last few years. Not any more.


Would the salary cap have been a problem if Matt Schaub didn't set the consecutive pick 6 record? Or if Arian & Cushing were to play 16 games? Or if our high dollar (FA & draft) secondary didn't avg a big PI every game?
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Old 01-25-2014   #29
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Would the salary cap have been a problem if Matt Schaub didn't set the consecutive pick 6 record? Or if Arian & Cushing were to play 16 games? Or if our high dollar (FA & draft) secondary didn't avg a big PI every game?
3 sentences, 3 if's. With enough ifs ands and buts you can make it out to be anything you want.
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Old 01-25-2014   #30
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Folks are missing a big piece of the equation and you have hit on it. Starting last year, but determined on a four year span rather than annually, teams must spend 89% of the salary cap IN CASH not cap hit. So if the caps for 2013-16 are $120, $125, $130 and $135 (total $510 mil) then the teams must spend $453.9 mil in cash over that time period.
The whole cap versus cash thing does make this whole equation a little more difficult to wrap your arms around.
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Old 01-25-2014   #31
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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3 sentences, 3 if's. With enough ifs ands and buts you can make it out to be anything you want.
Those three ifs point to the real problem which is not signing players to multi-year deals, or renegotiating contracts.
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Old 01-25-2014   #32
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Those three ifs point to the real problem which is not signing players to multi-year deals, or renegotiating contracts.
Those 3 ifs along with all the other ands and buts, plus all the excuses, keeps HOPE ALIVE, so you have that going for you.
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Old 01-25-2014   #33
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Those 3 ifs along with all the other ands and buts, plus all the excuses, keeps HOPE ALIVE, so you have that going for you.
Ifs play a big role in everything

such as IF you didnt write this i wouldnt respond
IF you hadnt woke up this morning you wouldnt of written this
IF the internet had never been invented this thread wouldnt exist
IF your mother hadnt met your father you wouldnt be born
IF our fore fathers had lost at lexington this would still be Britian

Yeah i think IFs are relevant !
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Old 01-25-2014   #34
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Ifs play a big role in everything

such as IF you didnt write this i wouldnt respond
IF you hadnt woke up this morning you wouldnt of written this
IF the internet had never been invented this thread wouldnt exist
IF your mother hadnt met your father you wouldnt be born
IF our fore fathers had lost at lexington this would still be Britian

Yeah i think IFs are relevant !
You may think it relevant, however, absolutely none of what you said is based in reality. It all in fact, did happen! Therefore you're dealing with more pretend, fantasy and make believe. Which by the way reflects the general thinking of quite a few Texans fans.
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Old 01-25-2014   #35
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

I had no problem giving Cushing and foster and even Matt the contracts at That time. The texans had to lock those guys up. They(at the time important pieces of he franchise) ESP with Watt's contract looming and it is going to be a BIG on.
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Old 01-25-2014   #36
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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You may think it relevant, however, absolutely none of what you said is based in reality. It all in fact, did happen! Therefore you're dealing with more pretend, fantasy and make believe. Which by the way reflects the general thinking of quite a few Texans fans.
NO you can use if in the context of IF it did happen or IF it did not happen and most generally before something happens it was an "IF" at one time. No fantasy because no matter which way the IF goes it has an affect on the other.

Its funny cause people are so narrow minded, you do know everything that happens, thats gonna happen, has been created or will be created starts with an IF. What if we do this or what if we do that, they choose one of those IFs..... do they not ?

No wonder hollywood has to remake old movies. All modern day thinking outside the box is gone for most.

Good luck !
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Old 01-25-2014   #37
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I had no problem giving Cushing and foster and even Matt the contracts at That time. The texans had to lock those guys up. They(at the time important pieces of he franchise) ESP with Watt's contract looming and it is going to be a BIG on.
Agreed.

Andre Johnson $15.6M
Matt Schaub $14.5M
Johnathan Joseph $11M
Arian Foster $8.5M
Duane Brown $8.5M
Chris Myers $7M
Owen Daniels $6M
Danieal Manning $6M

Next year replace Manning with Cushing.
Chris Myers, Owen Daniels, & Johnathan Joseph comes off that list in 2015.

On one hand you've got a cadre accusing McNair of being cheap. On the other we've got a zealot saying we've spent too much.
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Old 01-25-2014   #38
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

Now..... in his/her defense. & I've been waiting for him/her to say it, but it's like (s)he doesn't understand his/her own argument.... we're screwed with Andre. I mentioned earlier, we shouldn't ever pay anyone an $18M salary, or suffer an $18M cap number for any one player.

Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.

The last two seasons, he's proven that he can still play, but... instead of asking him to take a pay cut, we should have "extended him" through 2018. Looks like he'll be a productive player at least through 2016..... but $16M??

Rick Smith & Chris Olsen need to find a way to extend him after the 2014 season through the 2019 season. Expect him to play through 2017, but minimize the cap hit in 2018.


But Andre is the only case. Mario was allowed to play out his contract without extending him indefinitely, So was Antonio. We can cut OD & Manning today & our cap would be better off. We can cut Matt Schaub today & we'd be better off.

We can cut Jjo & our cap would be better off. However, he's only 29 years old & he's not terrible. He's not $11M good, or $12M (2015)....... 5 to 7 million dollars maybe.
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Old 01-25-2014   #39
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Now..... in his/her defense. & I've been waiting for him/her to say it, but it's like (s)he doesn't understand his/her own argument.... we're screwed with Andre. I mentioned earlier, we shouldn't ever pay anyone an $18M salary, or suffer an $18M cap number for any one player.

Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.

The last two seasons, he's proven that he can still play, but... instead of asking him to take a pay cut, we should have "extended him" through 2018. Looks like he'll be a productive player at least through 2016..... but $16M??

Rick Smith & Chris Olsen need to find a way to extend him after the 2014 season through the 2019 season. Expect him to play through 2017, but minimize the cap hit in 2018.


But Andre is the only case. Mario was allowed to play out his contract without extending him indefinitely, So was Antonio. We can cut OD & Manning today & our cap would be better off. We can cut Matt Schaub today & we'd be better off.

We can cut Jjo & our cap would be better off. However, he's only 29 years old & he's not terrible. He's not $11M good, or $12M (2015)....... 5 to 7 million dollars maybe.
As much as i agree with you about AJs contract i say there is no way they cut him, he will be 33 this season, but his last 2 seasons have both been over 1400 yard seasons. But thats not even the reason i say we shouldnt cut him....

No matter how loyal or hometown boyish this may sound, you do not do that to a player that has given his all for this franchise, and who hung around tough when times were bad. AJ needs to retire a texans when he is damn well ready. IF the franchise does cut him (NO MATTER how much it may help the franchise) I for one will lose a lot of respect for Mcnair and company !

Just all IMHO of course
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Old 01-25-2014   #40
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.
Where do you come up with this stuff? Andre did NOT take a pay cut. He restructured. What that means is they took $4 million of salary and converted it to a bonus. That means that Andre received that $4 million up front in cash, just like a bonus. IE: there was no cut. That allowed the Texans the ability to reduce their salary cap by $4 million in 2013 and spread that $4 million bonus over the remaining FUTURE years of Andres contract. That is just one of the reasons that add up to why the Texans have salary cap problems again in 2014. FYI as long as Andre is NOT in the last year of his contract he can restructure his contract. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?
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