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Old 01-20-2014   #121
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
McNair and I see eye to eye on this.. Trade down, get an outstanding
defensive player and get a QB that can do the job..

Clowney + Watt would be scary -- and might help offset starting
a back-to-back knee-surgery Cushing in the middle..
(while also helping out a slowed JJo and KJ at the same time)

The more I see the #'s, I just don't think there is any QB out there
truly franchise changing..
I could see taking a QB as low as high 2nd round, meaning we could use everything we get for that #1 pick elsewhere.
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Old 01-20-2014   #122
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
McNair and I see eye to eye on this.. Trade down, get an outstanding
defensive player and get a QB that can do the job..

Clowney + Watt would be scary -- and might help offset starting
a back-to-back knee-surgery Cushing in the middle..
(while also helping out a slowed JJo and KJ at the same time)

The more I see the #'s, I just don't think there is any QB out there
truly franchise changing..
I'm not actually far off from this. Well, with the exception that Bortles could be "that guy" at the first pick. While I disagree on that, I think AJ McCarron later on in the first round (if they traded down) or maybe on early in the second round and pick up an extra pick or two would be cool!
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Old 01-22-2014   #123
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Not sure if posted elsewhere but "According to CBS’s Jason La Canfora, the Browns are willing to trade up to select the Texas A&M quarterback.

The Browns have two first-round picks in May’s draft: the No. 4 overall selection and No. 26, which they acquired in a September trade with the Indianapolis Colts for running back Trent Richardson.

The Texans, St. Louis Rams and Jacksonville Jaguars pick ahead of the Browns. In order to move up, Cleveland would likely have to trade both first-round picks or package the No. 4 overall pick with several second and third-day selections.

The Texans could be a willing trade partner for the Browns. Earlier this month, owner Bob McNair said the team might trade the No. 1 overall pick for more draft choices."


http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dcfy8?u...houston-texans
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Old 01-22-2014   #124
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

If the Browns rumor is true that could be another reason why no coach wants to go there.
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Old 01-22-2014   #125
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
If the Browns rumor is true that could be another reason why no coach wants to go there.
? I would think having the #1 pick and a high 2nd would be enticing.
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Old 01-22-2014   #126
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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? I would think having the #1 pick and a high 2nd would be enticing.
Not if the owner has already made up his mind about who the #1 pick would be. As a new HC that #1 pick could be what ultimately decides how successful you are, so why would you want to be forced with Manziel if you don't see him as the #1?
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Old 01-23-2014   #127
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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russell wilson has hardly looked better than case keenum the last 2 months, yet the seahawks are going to the superbowl. if i trade back and the best player isnt a quarterback, so be it. the AFC is being carried by 2 hall of fame QB's who wont be far from 1 and 2 on the greatest of all time list. the NFC however is being won the other way, by exceptional talent around the field (a lot of suck going into years of early draft picks). only 1 of this weekend's qb's was even a first rounder.

i'm of the mind that the quarterback, while THE key player, is still just a draft pick like any other (peyton, carr, vick, russell, stafford, luck, cam ... the full gambit of boom and bust) - until he proves otherwise. if i can get an OT and an OG in the first round that would give enough time for even texanbill to make throws, we can be successful. same setting on defense. i'd take the risk that one of those 2 quarterbacks is still available, and if he isnt - a starter at another position will be. probably 2 starters with the additional early pick.
Don't actually agree that Wilson looks like case but you are making some very good points.
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Old 01-23-2014   #128
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
Not if the owner has already made up his mind about who the #1 pick would be. As a new HC that #1 pick could be what ultimately decides how successful you are, so why would you want to be forced with Manziel if you don't see him as the #1?
If the Browns are saying they are willing to trade up to the #1 position to draft Johnny Manziel, the only thing you can be sure of is that the Browns are not interested in trading up to get Johnny Manziel.
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Old 01-23-2014   #129
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Don't actually agree that Wilson looks like case but you are making some very good points.
keenum's 8 games vs wilson's last 8

1760 yards vs 1543 yards
54.2% vs 61.6%
9/6 td/int vs 10/3 td/int

considering the teams and their wildly different situations, the two arent far apart. i only mean to say however that it doesnt take the best quarterback ever to get to the superbowl when you have such a complete roster. that's how i'd personally build a team. quite literally a best player available approach, and allow that talent to make everyone better - which includes making a good qb look great with protection, receiving and a run game.
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Old 01-23-2014   #130
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If the Browns are saying they are willing to trade up to the #1 position to draft Johnny Manziel, the only thing you can be sure of is that the Browns are not interested in trading up to get Johnny Manziel.
well, it is the browns ...
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Old 01-24-2014   #131
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
keenum's 8 games vs wilson's last 8

1760 yards vs 1543 yards
54.2% vs 61.6%
9/6 td/int vs 10/3 td/int

considering the teams and their wildly different situations, the two arent far apart. i only mean to say however that it doesnt take the best quarterback ever to get to the superbowl when you have such a complete roster. that's how i'd personally build a team. quite literally a best player available approach, and allow that talent to make everyone better - which includes making a good qb look great with protection, receiving and a run game.
Making comparisons for the sake of comparisons using Wilson and Keenum is fair and all, but using passing stats like the ones provided really slant the argument in your favour.

You've also got to consider that Seattle doesn't play in a lot of close games, and thus typically aren't forced to pass the ball to play catch up.

In Wilson's last 8 regular season games, the Seahawks put up the following stats:

W/L Record: 6-2
Total Pts: 212 pts
Pts/GM: 26.5 pts
Total Pt Differential: +107
5 of those wins were 19 pts or more

Wilson also doesn't have the most talented receiving core either. Furthermore, I think Keenum's stats are further inflated due to the fact that our run game was very poor this season too. You can also argue that the lack of a run game made it difficult for Keenum to keep the defense honest, and that would be fair. But if you're making a comparison between Wilson and Keenum, and using passing stats to tell the story, then you also can't ignore that Seattle's effective running game takes away from Wilson's passing opportunities.

rush yards rankings
sea - 7
houston 23

rush attempts rankings
sea - 10
houston - 24

rush yards/attempt rankings
sea - 7
houston - 22

rush yards/gm rankings
sea - 7
houston - 23


Look, Keenum's a great kid and most of us would be totally cool with him getting a fair shot at the starting gig next year. But he's going to be facing an uphill battle once again. Comparing him to Wilson and saying the two are close would IMO be inaccurate.

We saw what Wilson can do when he takes a game into his own hands when they visited Houston earlier in the season. Schaub may have thrown it away, but Wilson made big play after big play to put his team in a position to win.
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Old 01-24-2014   #132
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

you make great points, but i seem to have steered in the wrong direction. i wasnt trying to directly compare the two quarterbacks, wilson is certainly much further ahead (i probably should've chosen someone other than keenum). my intent was to point out that the seahawks have been winning without wilson carrying the team, or even playing particularly well over the past couple months. heck he beat the powerhouse saints with 103 yards.

i want that. i want a team that can get to the superbowl without needing the quarterback to carry them, because the playoffs are so much more defense and blocking oriented than the regular season. obviously i'd love the next manning or brady, but diving into haystacks looking for him usually just ends with an unpleasant itch.
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Old 01-24-2014   #133
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
you make great points, but i seem to have steered in the wrong direction. i wasnt trying to directly compare the two quarterbacks, wilson is certainly much further ahead (i probably should've chosen someone other than keenum). my intent was to point out that the seahawks have been winning without wilson carrying the team, or even playing particularly well over the past couple months. heck he beat the powerhouse saints with 103 yards.

i want that. i want a team that can get to the superbowl without needing the quarterback to carry them, because the playoffs are so much more defense and blocking oriented than the regular season. obviously i'd love the next manning or brady, but diving into haystacks looking for him usually just ends with an unpleasant itch.

I hear you, and I understand where you're coming from. I just know that when Wilson is required to put the team on his shoulders, he has the ability to do so and actually has done so. I want Keenum to succeed, but so far he's come up empty in that regards. We can blame the team around him, but Wilson too sometimes doesn't have much to work with on the offensive end in regards to a passing game.

At the same time, I don't think there is a Brady or Manning in this draft as well, and if we can move down while acquiring assets, then so be it.
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Old 01-24-2014   #134
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by TdotTexas2Step View Post
Making comparisons for the sake of comparisons using Wilson and Keenum is fair and all, but using passing stats like the ones provided really slant the argument in your favour.

You've also got to consider that Seattle doesn't play in a lot of close games, and thus typically aren't forced to pass the ball to play catch up.
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think your arguments add up to the same thing.... I don't think we spent a lot of time playing catch up either. Most of the time, we had the lead going into the half, but couldn't put points on the board to maintain the lead. We didn't lose many games by more than 7.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TdotTexas2Step View Post

Look, Keenum's a great kid and most of us would be totally cool with him getting a fair shot at the starting gig next year. But he's going to be facing an uphill battle once again. Comparing him to Wilson and saying the two are close would IMO be inaccurate.

We saw what Wilson can do when he takes a game into his own hands when they visited Houston earlier in the season. Schaub may have thrown it away, but Wilson made big play after big play to put his team in a position to win.
Like you I think this is the biggest difference... however the lesson I got from this, is that Russell Wilson made plays in clutch situations where Schaub & Keenum didn't.

Case has got the talent, I believe that; but talent is only part of the equation at this level. I'm not saying Case can't get it done at this level & I don't believe he was put in the best situation to succeed. But the deck is no stacked against him even more than before. It is what it is. Time to move forward.
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Old 01-25-2014   #135
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think your arguments add up to the same thing.... I don't think we spent a lot of time playing catch up either. Most of the time, we had the lead going into the half, but couldn't put points on the board to maintain the lead. We didn't lose many games by more than 7.





Like you I think this is the biggest difference... however the lesson I got from this, is that Russell Wilson made plays in clutch situations where Schaub & Keenum didn't.

Case has got the talent, I believe that; but talent is only part of the equation at this level. I'm not saying Case can't get it done at this level & I don't believe he was put in the best situation to succeed. But the deck is no stacked against him even more than before. It is what it is. Time to move forward.
If Case has the talent, why not keep him as the 3rd QB and coach him?
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Old 01-25-2014   #136
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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If Case has the talent, why not keep him as the 3rd QB and coach him?
I didn't say not to. I want a FA veteran, a rookie with first round talent, & either Case or Tj in camp. If OB thinks we need to keep three QBs, I'm fine with that. If he decides two is good enough, I'm fine with that as well.
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Old 01-25-2014   #137
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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I didn't say not to. I want a FA veteran, a rookie with first round talent, & either Case or Tj in camp. If OB thinks we need to keep three QBs, I'm fine with that. If he decides two is good enough, I'm fine with that as well.
But you don't want us to draft a qb in the first round, right? Who do you think will be there later that will meet your requirements?
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Old 01-25-2014   #138
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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But you don't want us to draft a qb in the first round, right? Who do you think will be there later that will meet your requirements?
Pick a random QB who is 6'5" 240 lbs or bigger, QB skills be damned.






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Old 01-26-2014   #139
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Kind of how the Rockets did with having several PFs, why don't we spend a 2nd and a 4th on QBs, keep Case too, and just wait and see who asserts himself over the next 2 years? Dallas brought Romo along slowly ; Parcells knew Romo was special, though Jones would have run him off if not for Parcells.
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Old 01-26-2014   #140
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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But you don't want us to draft a qb in the first round, right? Who do you think will be there later that will meet your requirements?
I said first round talent. Plenty of QBs in this class would go in the first round under different circumstances. Mettenberger, Murray, McCarron, & Boyd are still on my list. If I can get them in the second or third..... or 4th (Logan Thomas) I'll plan my draft to do so.


At the same time, I like Bridgewater, Manziel, & Bortles..... I just don't think any of them are worth the #1 overall & I wouldn't allow pressure from Jacksonville & Cleveland to force me to select them over superior talent, if this draft has superior talent.

It's still early, I haven't looked at everybody in this draft yet, there may not be any more talented players. But right now, I see two maybe three LTs, I'm not seeing too many Sammy Watkins yet either. Of course, there's Jadaveon Clowney.
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