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Old 01-20-2014   #101
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
i would match whatever the rams offer or even less if the browns wanted to move up. there is nothing greater in the NFL offseason than acquiring more draft picks. one team follows through with that philosophy, and they have more superbowl rings/appearances than anyone since the 90's. #1's bust as often as anyone else, and the only way to stack the odds in your favor is to make more picks.
Bingo !
Would exchange our 1 for their 4 & 26 in a heart-beat even though the DVC indicates we'd be 400 points short on that deal. I might even consider more boot to the Browns ? It is all about Draft picks, that's where a team is built, not in FA. Of course you've got to draft wisely.
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Old 01-20-2014   #102
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Bingo !
Would exchange our 1 for their 4 & 26 in a heart-beat even though the DVC indicates we'd be 400 points short on that deal. I might even consider more boot to the Browns ? It is all about Draft picks, that's where a team is built, not in FA. Of course you've got to draft wisely.
The bold negates the trade at all costs mentality. It isn't drafting wisely to trade back and get the 4th best QB when you think only 2 are good.
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Old 01-20-2014   #103
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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The bold negates the trade at all costs mentality. It isn't drafting wisely to trade back and get the 4th best QB when you think only 2 are good.
russell wilson has hardly looked better than case keenum the last 2 months, yet the seahawks are going to the superbowl. if i trade back and the best player isnt a quarterback, so be it. the AFC is being carried by 2 hall of fame QB's who wont be far from 1 and 2 on the greatest of all time list. the NFC however is being won the other way, by exceptional talent around the field (a lot of suck going into years of early draft picks). only 1 of this weekend's qb's was even a first rounder.

i'm of the mind that the quarterback, while THE key player, is still just a draft pick like any other (peyton, carr, vick, russell, stafford, luck, cam ... the full gambit of boom and bust) - until he proves otherwise. if i can get an OT and an OG in the first round that would give enough time for even texanbill to make throws, we can be successful. same setting on defense. i'd take the risk that one of those 2 quarterbacks is still available, and if he isnt - a starter at another position will be. probably 2 starters with the additional early pick.
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Old 01-20-2014   #104
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The bold negates the trade at all costs mentality. It isn't drafting wisely to trade back and get the 4th best QB when you think only 2 are good.
JMO of course, but this years QB class is starting to feel to me like last years class which means not that talented at that top. Perhaps BOB sees someone he likes farther down the Board or a veteran backup like the guy in NE as the best QB option for his team right now.
So obviously if there's a stud prospect there like a Luck or a Manning the fortunate team with the top pick just sits on their hands and ignores all offers, but nobody sees any such Draft Board in 2014 which
requires improvization if the opportunity presents itself.
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Old 01-20-2014   #105
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

As much as I'd love to see a trade, I'd rather have OB wowed enough by one particular QB -- or other player -- that the price he puts on first overall is too high for even a fool to pay.

Without a standout player, our first is closer in value to the following picks.

Our best trade bet might be two teams that fall in love with Jadeveon Clowney competing to trade up for him.
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Old 01-20-2014   #106
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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russell wilson has hardly looked better than case keenum the last 2 months, yet the seahawks are going to the superbowl. if i trade back and the best player isnt a quarterback, so be it. the AFC is being carried by 2 hall of fame QB's who wont be far from 1 and 2 on the greatest of all time list. the NFC however is being won the other way, by exceptional talent around the field (a lot of suck going into years of early draft picks). only 1 of this weekend's qb's was even a first rounder.

i'm of the mind that the quarterback, while THE key player, is still just a draft pick like any other (peyton, carr, vick, russell, stafford, luck, cam ... the full gambit of boom and bust) - until he proves otherwise. if i can get an OT and an OG in the first round that would give enough time for even texanbill to make throws, we can be successful. same setting on defense. i'd take the risk that one of those 2 quarterbacks is still available, and if he isnt - a starter at another position will be. probably 2 starters with the additional early pick.
Very well stated.
But now Manning also has an outstanding supporting cast with a strong receiving corp, xcellent back, and very good OLine. Did the Pats even touch Manning yesterday ?
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Old 01-20-2014   #107
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

i have no problem with being so enamored with a player that he warrants a #1, but you have to be certain. i have trouble seeing that player. i'd rather have keenum than manziel. bridgewater and bortles both have big question marks. and clowney has more bust potential than anyone else in the early first.

if i could drop to 4 and grab the quarterback that falls, or matthews or barr - i'd take it every time. you're either getting that quarterback, or you're getting more of a sure bet that still has a high ceiling that can help anchor the team for years ... along with another first round pick (and probably more).
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Old 01-20-2014   #108
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Very well stated.
But now Manning also has an outstanding supporting cast with a strong receiving corp, xcellent back, and very good OLine. Did the Pats even touch Manning yesterday?
nope, but they beat the snot out of andrew luck. manning went to a team that made the playoffs with tim tebow, and that's what i want to see. we're a team that's a year away from 12 wins with a gimp schaub. i'd continue to build on that and add talent to the roster at every opportunity. if "THE MAN" at quarterback is available (and OB might feel he is at #1 which is just fine) then you grab him. if the "HE HAS A CHANCE TO BE THE MAN MAYBE" is available, he's more likely to cripple the franchise than help. that's where i'm currently at, and why i'm preaching trade down and build talent + depth.

edit: i sure do get repetitive when i drink.
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Old 01-20-2014   #109
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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nope, but they beat the snot out of andrew luck. manning went to a team that made the playoffs with tim tebow, and that's what i want to see. we're a team that's a year away from 12 wins with a gimp schaub. i'd continue to build on that and add talent to the roster at every opportunity. if "THE MAN" at quarterback is available (and OB might feel he is at #1 which is just fine) then you grab him. if the "HE HAS A CHANCE TO BE THE MAN MAYBE" is available, he's more likely to cripple the franchise than help. that's where i'm currently at, and why i'm preaching trade down and build talent + depth.
Agreed. Don't reach with a QB with the hopes that he might be the future. If they feel that one of those "Top Rated" QB prospects are the future, then make the pick. If not, take Clowney.

Honestly, I would feel better about the direction of the franchise if they took Clowney with the #1. You are statistically less prone to set your franchise back if you don't take a QB #1. If they take a QB #1 then he will play despite the fact that he is ready or not. That will not only hurt us, but it will hurt that player's development as well.

How much time are we going to give a rookie QB to straighten things out before we declare him a bust? Everyone wants to win now and if the kid doesn't come out and lead us to the playoffs we will be calling to draft another QB in 2015. We gave an UDF QB with virtually no real practice time 8 games before we decided he wasn't serviceable. The verdict isn't in on him, and it also won't be on another rookie QB after year 1. Have patience.

People should take a step back from the "we need to win now!" emotions and look at what is more beneficial for our team in the long run. Build a strong foundation because we don't have one. Don't bring in a kid and set him up for failure from day 1.
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Old 01-20-2014   #110
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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You are statistically less prone to set your franchise back if you don't take a QB #1.
Love to see that assertion supported.
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Old 01-20-2014   #111
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Love to see that assertion supported.
I'm on the phone with Daryl Morey now...

How integral is the QB position on a team? Taking a QB high in the draft is essentially guaranteeing him a starting spot is it not? If you fail on your QB pick you're setting the team back. If you fail on your DE pick or WR pick or RB pick it is not going to have the same ill effect as missing on a QB pick.

I'm having flashbacks of 2002. Carr over Peppers. Maybe we should have gone with Young over Williams in 2006 too.
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Old 01-20-2014   #112
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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I'm on the phone with Daryl Morey now...

How integral is the QB position on a team? Taking a QB high in the draft is essentially guaranteeing him a starting spot is it not? If you fail on your QB pick you're setting the team back. If you fail on your DE pick or WR pick or RB pick it is not going to have the same ill effect as missing on a QB pick.

I'm having flashbacks of 2002. Carr over Peppers. Maybe we should have gone with Young over Williams in 2006 too.
Your construct is fallacious.

Taking anyone high in the draft essentially guarantees them a starting spot.

If you fail on any pick high WR, DE, RB or QB you're setting the team back and just as much - the same wasted pick. The opportunity to have improved the team and not having done so.

It is the players involved not the positions which determine how poor a choice is made. Brian Urlacher clearly would have been a better choice than Courtney Brown. Doesn't mean start taking LBs higher than DEs.
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Old 01-20-2014   #113
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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I'm on the phone with Daryl Morey now...

How integral is the QB position on a team? Taking a QB high in the draft is essentially guaranteeing him a starting spot is it not? If you fail on your QB pick you're setting the team back. If you fail on your DE pick or WR pick or RB pick it is not going to have the same ill effect as missing on a QB pick.

I'm having flashbacks of 2002. Carr over Peppers. Maybe we should have gone with Young over Williams in 2006 too.
It's not anything like the Carr debacle because the player contracts are completely different. The Rams were the last team to be in that position, with a #1 QB who had a huge 50 million dollar anchor around the GM's neck. If we take a QB at #1 this year he will be making around 5.5m a year for 4 years, which is not really a big deal. Just for the hell of it:

Name - Length - Total - Per year
Sam Bradford - 6 years, 78m, 13m
Cam Newton - 4 years 22.02m, 5.5m
Andrew Luck - 4 years, 22.10m, 5.5m
Eric Fisher - 4 years, 22.19m, 5.5m

Contracts are clearly cheap now, and the risk of taking a #1 overall QB is significantly less than in the past. Now is the time to take those risks because the bust factor doesn't kill you cap for the next 5+ years.
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Old 01-20-2014   #114
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Your construct is fallacious.
Yeah, we could just avoid the QB position altogether...

Or we could hire a guy who we think knows how to evaluate and coach up QBs for a multiple offense in the NFL.
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Old 01-20-2014   #115
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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There is one thing that makes Bridgewater special in my opinion - and that`s his football IQ. It was called savant-like before, and it sounds a lot like Manning. Bridgewater is elite at reading defenses presnap, rarely makes mistakes with the ball and usually hits the right guy. He is constantly in the film room or studying gameplans.

I feel like a lot of QBs fail despite having all the physical tools because either the game is too fast for them (with too many things going on) or they lack motivation to put in all the work needed. Both of these things should be no problem with Bridgewater.
OMG, elite at reading college defense? Might want to wipe your upper lip, you have a kool aide mustache....

Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, so on is elite at NOTHING until they step onto a NFL field.

there are allot of players coming out of college with "high football IQ" but until they get on the field and prove it, they are nothings....
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Old 01-20-2014   #116
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Very well stated.
But now Manning also has an outstanding supporting cast with a strong receiving corp, xcellent back, and very good OLine. Did the Pats even touch Manning yesterday ?
That Oline is horrible , riddled with injuries from the beginning of the season .... The reason they look good is Manning getting rid of the ball in 1.6 seconds or less on so many occasions - Its near impossible to get to any QB in that short amount of time , unless he falls down or hugs a defender.
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Old 01-20-2014   #117
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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That Oline is horrible , riddled with injuries from the beginning of the season .... The reason they look good is Manning getting rid of the ball in 1.6 seconds or less on so many occasions - Its near impossible to get to any QB in that short amount of time , unless he falls down or hugs a defender.
Lol

We've had those!
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Old 01-20-2014   #118
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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How about if we trade a 6th for Brad Smith, do without a QB and run the wildcat all the time?
How about we use a 3rd on Brett Smith and get the best QB in this draft.

After seeing Garappolo for the 1st time this weekend, he and Brett Smith intrigue me more any any other QB's in this class.
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Old 01-20-2014   #119
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

The only QB that right now could garner taking a chance with using the #1 pick is JFF. If you don't believe he is your QB, you trade the pick so Cleveland can get him and you pick at #4.
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Old 01-20-2014   #120
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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nope, but they beat the snot out of andrew luck. manning went to a team that made the playoffs with tim tebow, and that's what i want to see. we're a team that's a year away from 12 wins with a gimp schaub. i'd continue to build on that and add talent to the roster at every opportunity. if "THE MAN" at quarterback is available (and OB might feel he is at #1 which is just fine) then you grab him. if the "HE HAS A CHANCE TO BE THE MAN MAYBE" is available, he's more likely to cripple the franchise than help. that's where i'm currently at, and why i'm preaching trade down and build talent + depth.

edit: i sure do get repetitive when i drink.
I'm repetitive and I don't drink.
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