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Old 01-15-2014   #1641
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Seriously would be that was not a normal 2-14 team. They were 1 QB away from a disappointing at 10-6 playoff team.
Just 1 QB? So any guy could have just stepped in and got them to 10-6? Or did it take a QB with a certain level of skill?

I'm not foolish enough to argue that Luck is an elite QB at this point. But that is not some dream team supporting cast he has around him. The guy might dig a hole now and then that he can't crawl out of, but he has been in the league for two whole years. Plus, he leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins during those two years.

If y'all can't see it then I can't help you. It's there. He just hasn't quite put it all together yet.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1642
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Default Re: Manziel

Am I the only one who thinks its odd that O'Brien has only seen Manziel play once or twice? I guess when he's at home he has his hands full, but still found it strange.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1643
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Am I the only one who thinks its odd that O'Brien has only seen Manziel play once or twice? I guess when he's at home he has his hands full, but still found it strange.
If that is true, I find it very strange, but it sounds like classic "coach speak" to me. Saying that he has only seen Manziel a couple times allows him to dodge any more questions regarding the subject.

I have been a Teddy guy for a few months now, but as I watch and rematch cutups and film on them, and read more opinions across message boards and such, I must say Manziel is really closing the gap for me.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1644
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
If that is true, I find it very strange, but it sounds like classic "coach speak" to me. Saying that he has only seen Manziel a couple times allows him to dodge any more questions regarding the subject.

I have been a Teddy guy for a few months now, but as I watch and rematch cutups and film on them, and read more opinions across message boards and such, I must say Manziel is really closing the gap for me.
His home situation is pretty unique so part of me believes it.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1645
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Am I the only one who thinks its odd that O'Brien has only seen Manziel play once or twice? I guess when he's at home he has his hands full, but still found it strange.
Why would you think he would watch Manziel?
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Old 01-15-2014   #1646
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Default Re: Manziel

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Why would you think he would watch Manziel?
Football coaches are fans too.......... Manziel is the former Heisman winner..... why wouldn't he want to watch him?
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Old 01-15-2014   #1647
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
His home situation is pretty unique so part of me believes it.
Yeah true, and I am sure during the season he wasn't planning on coming to an NFL team where he would be scouting college talent all around the country, so maybe he has only seen Manziel play a couple of times. Still Manziel was the biggest name in college football for two years, and for a college head coach to only have seen him a couple times seems strange.

I heard the interview and he said a couple times "other than on TV" so maybe he meant he has seen Mazniel on TV plenty but never in person.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1648
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just 1 QB? So any guy could have just stepped in and got them to 10-6? Or did it take a QB with a certain level of skill?

I'm not foolish enough to argue that Luck is an elite QB at this point. But that is not some dream team supporting cast he has around him. The guy might dig a hole now and then that he can't crawl out of, but he has been in the league for two whole years. Plus, he leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins during those two years.

If y'all can't see it then I can't help you. It's there. He just hasn't quite put it all together yet.
^^^^
This

He sure seems to like beating his hometown Texans.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1649
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just 1 QB? So any guy could have just stepped in and got them to 10-6? Or did it take a QB with a certain level of skill?
That's what you took from that? Mmmkay. The point was what was around the QB was not the total crap that is being made out.

Quote:
If y'all can't see it then I can't help you. It's there. He just hasn't quite put it all together yet.
Never said anything different. Just saying I am not going to declare he has made it based on "taking a 2-14 team to the playoffs."
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Old 01-15-2014   #1650
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
That's what you took from that? Mmmkay. The point was what was around the QB was not the total crap that is being made out.
I'm not saying that's what you meant but it was a very vague statement. It's not like Luck is just some guy. His talent is undeniable. Is it being overstated by some at this point? Probably.


Quote:
Never said anything different. Just saying I am not going to declare he has made it based on "taking a 2-14 team to the playoffs."
If by "made it" you mean elite QB then I agree. If by "made it" you mean he isn't the biggest reason why that 2-14 team is now in the playoffs then I disagree.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1651
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
If by "made it" you mean elite QB then I agree. If by "made it" you mean he isn't the biggest reason why that 2-14 team is now in the playoffs then I disagree.
By made it I mean elite. By extension what I am saying is it didn't take an elite QB to get that 2-14 team to the playoffs.

I posted this in TexansTalk on what to expect from the Texans next season: The average 2 win team lost 2.7 more games than their prior season to get to 2 wins. The Colts and Texans are very atypical with the Colts losing 8 games more and the Texans losing 10 more games - both primarily due to QB issues. I expect those kinds of teams to have a bigger bounce because they are bouncing back to a much higher starting point than usual.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1652
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Football coaches are fans too.......... Manziel is the former Heisman winner..... why wouldn't he want to watch him?
I just don't think it's odd. I would think he probably doesn't have much free time.
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Old 01-15-2014   #1653
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I just don't think it's odd. I would think he probably doesn't have much free time.
He was probably busy watching Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, etc. film. Then recruiting. Then watching some Penn State film, then recruiting some more. Then maybe babysitting a couple of his players. Why would he spend any time watching JFF?
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Old 01-16-2014   #1654
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I just don't think it's odd. I would think he probably doesn't have much free time.
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He was probably busy watching Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, etc. film. Then recruiting. Then watching some Penn State film, then recruiting some more. Then maybe babysitting a couple of his players. Why would he spend any time watching JFF?
Honest question..... are you guys friends with any college coaches? Those guys are football junkies. I haven't met one who doesn't DVR games and watch as much football as possible. Its really kind of annoying.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1655
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Honest question..... are you guys friends with any college coaches? Those guys are football junkies. I haven't met one who doesn't DVR games and watch as much football as possible. Its really kind of annoying.
If he's watching film of upcoming opponents and recruits as well as from his own team, there's little time left for the media darlings. This is as much as possible for a married man with a special needs son.

His focus on balancing football with life is a characteristic which helps me get over his Yankee roots.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1656
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just 1 QB? So any guy could have just stepped in and got them to 10-6? Or did it take a QB with a certain level of skill?

I'm not foolish enough to argue that Luck is an elite QB at this point. But that is not some dream team supporting cast he has around him. The guy might dig a hole now and then that he can't crawl out of, but he has been in the league for two whole years. Plus, he leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins during those two years.

If y'all can't see it then I can't help you. It's there. He just hasn't quite put it all together yet.
That is exactly what Im getting at - He's good , but hasn't lived up to the hype. He's not great at this point.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1657
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That is exactly what Im getting at - He's good , but hasn't lived up to the hype. He's not great at this point.
He's a top 10 QB that just helped his team make the playoffs for the 2nd time in 2 yrs and has more comeback wins than any QB in the NFL during that time. Luck has certainly lived up to my expectations.

I feel sorry for the QB that the Rick drafts if expectations are higher than these.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1658
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Default Re: Manziel

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That is exactly what Im getting at - He's good , but hasn't lived up to the hype. He's not great at this point.
Eh, I think he's lived up to the expectations that were placed on him. He's only been in the league two years. What hasn't he done that he was expected to accomplish by this point?

And while I'm wouldn't call him elite yet I do think he is great. I think he's a top 8 QB in the league with plenty of potential to get even better.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1659
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
That's semantics. If that's true, then the RG3 trade is also not relevant to this discussion because there is no outstanding talent available that would dictate such a trade like there was in 2012.

I've said it over and over, talent dictates value. The value is not as high this year as it was with RG3. You can't just point to the 2012 trade and say that is the value of the 2014 #1 pick. The talent pool dictates the value.

I agree with you that those pre-New CBA trades are not in line with the current value attributed to draft picks but, as I said, using the RG3 trade as the standard is not accurate either.
Would you not agree that talent is not the only thing dictating value? Pressure on coach/owner to get "over the top" or turn a season around would also effect how a player is valued. Similarly a team like Houston or Vikings or Cleveland with basically no QB would be willing to pay more than a team with an average player. Costs as previously discussed would also make a huge difference under this CBA; and this is what makes it exciting.
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Old 01-16-2014   #1660
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Default Re: Manziel

Are we seriously questioning Luck????? Luck has been GREAT! He has the roster of a 2-14 team and elevated them to the playoffs. He's not good all of the time, but they are where they are because of Luck.
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