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Old 01-11-2014   #1
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Default Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

So every year there are a number of QBs who enter the NFL as "projects" Are there any out there that should be considered in addition to the 1st round QBs of this draft?

The two I'm most concerned with are Ryan Mallet & Brian Hoyer.

Hoyer 6'2" 215lbs Michigan State.
UDFA to New England in 2009. Signed by the Cleveland Browns He (& O'Brien) was with the Patriots from 2009-2011, spent 2012 between the Patriots & Cardinals, signed a 2 year deal with the Browns. He leap-frogged their back up QB & started 4 games. The Browns won all 4 games; Hoyer injured his ACL in the 4th.

The guaranteed portion of his contract has been paid. It would cost the Browns nothing to trade him.
Of course I'm thinking acquiring Hoyer would allow us flexibility to take a bigger chance on a QB later in the draft. At the same time, have the Browns (also without a head coach) seen enough to likely pass on a QB with the first overall pick & select Jadaveon Clowney or Anthony Barr if the third overall pick in the 2014 draft.

Would the presence of Hoyer & Weeden allow the Browns the freedom to move to the #1 pick to select someone other than a QB, if they felt the need exists?

Hoyer appeared to be a competent NFL QB, if nothing else you'd think he would have made a fine back-up for Tom Brady. Why did they draft Mallet in the third round, then release Hoyer a year later & how much influence did Bob O'Brien have on those decisions (he was the Patriots QB coach & OC when Mallet was drafted. He was not with the Patriots when they released Hoyer.)

Mallet 6'6" 245lbs Arkansas
Quote:
We suspected Mallett would fall to the third round, and it may have been fourth or fifth if not for New England. One front office exec tells ESPN's Adam Schefter that Mallett was the top QB on the Patriots' board. While Mallett boasts an arm touched by the gods, he also possesses the sloth-like movement of a late-career Drew Bledsoe. Worse, there have been documented reports of drug usage and consumption issues in college to go with character red flags. Put simply, no team in the league wanted him as the face of the franchise. Bill Belichick will try to develop Mallett as Tom Brady's successor or an eventual trade chip.
In addition there were some red flags surrounding Mallet. There was evidence of immaturity, talks of drug consumption, & reports of being late to team interviews. After the draft there were stories of his exploits much like Gronk...partying all night, living fast & disappointing in camp & OTAs.

But... the reports changed dramatically before the 2013 season. He was impressive. Thoughts began circulating that he could be Brady's heir apparent. However, the Patriots extended Tom Brady into forever & reassured all that Mallet was trade bait. Though the Browns entered talks with the Patriots on more than one occasion to acquire Mallet, a deal never materialized. The Patriots held firm to their price, a high 2nd round pick, pricing teams like Arizona out of the market.
If the cost last season was an early 2, would the Patriots take two thirds? An early third, an early 6th & an early 7th? Or if there was some way we could acquire him without giving up our 2nd round pick.

"Sloth-like movement" does not excite me. But whether you or I like the idea or not, we should consider that O'Brien may offer the Patriots our 2nd round pick for Mallet. He was part of the staff that used a 3rd (74th overall) to acquire him in the first place. How does he compare to the talent that "should" be available in the second round? Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron?

Keep in mind, with two NFL off-seasons under his belt, Mallet should be ready to start from day 1.
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Old 01-11-2014   #2
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Mallet is worth a look.
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Old 01-11-2014   #3
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

I like Mc lovin hell he beat us LOL
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Old 01-11-2014   #4
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Mallett probably costs us the #33 at minimum. Maybe our 3rd with next year's 2nd. NE has no reason to give him up for anything less than what they want.

Hoyer hasn't really proved much at the NFL level either. Let's not change history, the Browns played well when Hoyer was QB, but he was no superstar. He was efficient. But he will also be priced high because of how the team was performing when he got injured. I think he would cost us a 3rd round pick minimum.

If we want to trade for a QB we're most likely going to have to overpay. That's just the nature of the game.
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Old 01-11-2014   #5
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Mallett probably costs us the #33 at minimum. Maybe our 3rd with next year's 2nd. NE has no reason to give him up for anything less than what they want.
They were asking for a high second last year. He's done nothing to increase his value since. On the other hand, the Pats have commited to Tom Brady for quite some time & have had pretty good success finding QBs in the last few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Hoyer hasn't really proved much at the NFL level either. Let's not change history, the Browns played well when Hoyer was QB, but he was no superstar. He was efficient. But he will also be priced high because of how the team was performing when he got injured. I think he would cost us a 3rd round pick minimum.
The interest in Hoyer is two fold. If the Browns feel good with Hoyer, then the possibility of them moving up with us to draft someone other than a QB is more plausible. If it appears that the Rams are in love with Clowney... we may be able to swap with Cleveland & still get Bridgewater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
If we want to trade for a QB we're most likely going to have to overpay. That's just the nature of the game.
Not really. Proven talent has lost it's value in the NFL. We've seen good/great talent traded for next to nothing over the last 6 years or so. We gave up Demeco for a 4th. The 49ers got Boldin for a 5th. Well... the Browns did get a 1st for Richardson, but other than that...

Then Kraft has an affection for McNair. Perhaps Belichick has an affection for O'Brien.... perhaps they both want to do Crennel a "favor"


Who knows?
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Old 01-11-2014   #6
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
They were asking for a high second last year. He's done nothing to increase his value since. On the other hand, the Pats have commited to Tom Brady for quite some time & have had pretty good success finding QBs in the last few years.



The interest in Hoyer is two fold. If the Browns feel good with Hoyer, then the possibility of them moving up with us to draft someone other than a QB is more plausible. If it appears that the Rams are in love with Clowney... we may be able to swap with Cleveland & still get Bridgewater.



Not really. Proven talent has lost it's value in the NFL. We've seen good/great talent traded for next to nothing over the last 6 years or so. We gave up Demeco for a 4th. The 49ers got Boldin for a 5th. Well... the Browns did get a 1st for Richardson, but other than that...

Then Kraft has an affection for McNair. Perhaps Belichick has an affection for O'Brien.... perhaps they both want to do Crennel a "favor"


Who knows?
The commitment to Brady doesn't change the fact that they have all the leverage in any trade negotiations about Mallett. They don't need to get rid of him, which means that any offer made will have to be shaded in their favor for it to be accepted. They are perfectly happy holding on to him for now if nobody gives them what they want.

I agree about Cleveland as a trade partner. I like it. Now we just have to make sure that there is somebody they want.

It's not so much about how proven the talent is as it is the fact that the talent is a QB. The value for an unproven QB with potential is almost always going to be higher than the value of a proven talent at any other position. That's just the game now. QBs are valued above all else.

I would love for the Patriots to do us a favor. But in my mind, one reason they are probably as successful as they have been is because they do not do favors for others.
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Old 01-11-2014   #7
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Mallett has a ton of potential and upside but his bust factor could be high too. BOB will have to decide if taking someone like clowney in the first and trading the 2nd for mallett would be better than bridgewater. I think that's what it would take to get him anyways. He's just as much of an unknown as the QBs in the draft.

just for reference- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw

Hell of an arm, but probably needs a good OL to operate
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Old 01-13-2014   #8
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

I think Mallett will be a Texan before the start of training camp, if not this year, next year.

Young, strong arm, not a statue in the pocket, can move around a bit. I think he has huge upside especially running a system he has been involved in for the last 3 years sitting behind Brady...
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Old 01-13-2014   #9
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

More and more we're hearing the Browns are strongly interested in Manziel. Seems like the Texans camp will have to put up rumors themselves to stir the pot because if I am the Browns and don't think the Texans want my guy I'm aiming for the Rams. I mean, who could the Rams draft? Unless they are ready to move on from Bradford they don't need Clowney because their biggest strength is defensive end with Quinn (possible defensive mvp) and Chris Long. Clowney doesn't seem the 4-3 linebacker in the slighest. So that may be the best trading partner if there is no word that the Texans are interested in someone you want.

The more I look at it the more I believe there will definitely be a trade in the top five. Only hope that it is us and we find ourselves a good dance partner. Guess we'll really see what Smith is made of if it happens.
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Old 01-13-2014   #10
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Mallett for a 3rd and 5th

Trade 1-1 to the Browns for 1-4, the two Browns 3rd rd picks and a 2015 1st seems fair
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Old 01-13-2014   #11
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So every year there are a number of QBs who enter the NFL as "projects" Are there any out there that should be considered in addition to the 1st round QBs of this draft?

The two I'm most concerned with are Ryan Mallet & Brian Hoyer.

Hoyer 6'2" 215lbs Michigan State.
UDFA to New England in 2009. Signed by the Cleveland Browns He (& O'Brien) was with the Patriots from 2009-2011, spent 2012 between the Patriots & Cardinals, signed a 2 year deal with the Browns. He leap-frogged their back up QB & started 4 games. The Browns won all 4 games; Hoyer injured his ACL in the 4th.

The guaranteed portion of his contract has been paid. It would cost the Browns nothing to trade him.
Of course I'm thinking acquiring Hoyer would allow us flexibility to take a bigger chance on a QB later in the draft. At the same time, have the Browns (also without a head coach) seen enough to likely pass on a QB with the first overall pick & select Jadaveon Clowney or Anthony Barr if the third overall pick in the 2014 draft.

Would the presence of Hoyer & Weeden allow the Browns the freedom to move to the #1 pick to select someone other than a QB, if they felt the need exists?

Hoyer appeared to be a competent NFL QB, if nothing else you'd think he would have made a fine back-up for Tom Brady. Why did they draft Mallet in the third round, then release Hoyer a year later & how much influence did Bob O'Brien have on those decisions (he was the Patriots QB coach & OC when Mallet was drafted. He was not with the Patriots when they released Hoyer.)
Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.
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Old 01-13-2014   #12
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.
Take this man at his word

He knows his Cleveland Browns football.

When do you think we should start the sign up for the 2014 TT Mock Draft. People need to start doing their homework early.
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Old 01-13-2014   #13
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Take this man at his word

He knows his Cleveland Browns football.

When do you think we should start the sign up for the 2014 TT Mock Draft. People need to start doing their homework early.
We might want to do a couple of them this year.
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Old 01-16-2014   #14
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Found this from before the draft

Size: While he may be just slightly on the thin side, Mallett certainly has the requisite height to see over the line in the NFL. Some question whether he’s too tall, and whether or not that will affect the length of his stride, as well as how quickly he is able to get the throw out at the next level. Overall, Mallett has the size to play in the NFL.

Arm Strength: Easily the strongest aspect of Mallett’s game is the strength of his arm. Mallett has the ability to stick the ball in places other quarterbacks can’t, because of the velocity he can place on the ball. In his first season at Arkansas, he often forgot to take the zip off of some of his passes, but he seems to have corrected that in his junior season. Mallett has the physical ability to make all of the throws at the next level.

Accuracy: Mallett has definitely improved his this season, but he still struggles with it when under pressure. After going over tape on the Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Ohio State games, a clean pocket for Mallett is a must. Give him a clean pocket he throws strikes, get in his face, and his mechanics break down, and he starts throwing the ball all over the place (specifically high). Bobby Petrino’s offense at Arkansas, while appearing “pro style” really is more “power spread” than anything else. Mallett often had a lot of very wide passing lanes to throw into, which likely inflated his completion percentage

Mechanical: Much has been made of Mallett’s mechanics, and how they need to be cleaned up at the next level. His footwork, especially outside the pocket is quite bad. This often happens to taller long striders, who aren’t really natural athletically, but with Mallett (who also was a pretty decent basketball player) it shouldn’t be the issue that it is. He throws the ball with an elongated motion that’s going to have to be shortened at the next level. He releases that ball at the same point every time when he has a clean pocket, but when protection breaks down, his release point varies, which leads to high throws. Mallett has quite possibly the best play fake I’ve seen in the last decade, which should serve him well at the next level.

Mobility: Mallett is not very mobile, and teams would be wise to keep him in the pocket at the next level. Mallett did have a surprising amount of success on roll outs at Arkansas, in part due to the extremely convincing play fake he possesses, but the speed of defenders at the next level should dissuade any offensive coordinator from making roll outs a regular part of Mallett’s repertoire.

Pre/Post Snap Reads: Mallett was one of the few top draft eligible quarterbacks with the freedom to change the play at the line. Mallett has shown a knack for a pre snap diagnosis of what coverage shell is coming, but has struggled with correctly diagnosing who the blitzer is on zone blitzes.

Intangibles: While Mallett seemed to “will” his team back to a win against Georgia (though I think at least 50% of the credit there goes to wide receiver Greg Childs), he seemingly has folded in nearly every other big game Arkansas has had with the game on the line. Late interceptions against both Alabama and Ohio State cost the team both games.

Character: Probably the mostly hotly debated aspect of Mallett right now is his character. We reported on his alleged drug use, his arrest for public intox, and there have been numerous other rumors floating around regarding Mallett’s character that have definitely given pause when considering him as the potential face of your franchise. Teammates have vouched for his work ethic, and told us that Mallett even delivered pizzas to students who were camped out in line for tickets to the Alabama-Arkansas game in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Teams will definitely want to do extensive checking into his background before making him the face of their franchise.

Overall Mallett brings a pretty unique package to the table. Teams will want to evaluate the mechanical and personal issues he has, and see if they think those will be a hinderance to his success at the NFL level, after all no one wants to bring in the next Ryan Leaf. Mallett, however, reminds me less of Leaf, and more of Jeff George, for better or worse. I have a mid second round grade on Mallett, though I think he could possibly sneak into the back end of the first round.

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Old 01-16-2014   #15
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.
Second coming of Matt Flynn
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Old 01-16-2014   #16
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

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We might want to do a couple of them this year.
Looking forward to it.
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Old 01-16-2014   #17
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

Jeff George?

Million dollar arm, 10c brain?
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Old 01-17-2014   #18
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

I'm not big on college football. I occasionally watch when there is a player that garners a lot of attention (hype), but that doesn't happen often. That said, all I can do is go back to old scouting reports & try to get a feel for these guys. Looking at Mallet, I find it hard to understand why he wasn't selected earlier, even harder to understand how guys like Blain Gabbert, Jake Locker, & Ryan Tannehill were selected ahead of him.
Gil Alcaraz, New Era Scouting
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Final Word: Any team would be glad to have a player of Mallett’s ability and leadership taking snaps for their offense. Passing stats come easily and in large quantities for Mallett, who is as productive as they come at the quarterback spot.

After having an up-and-down season in 2009, he came back in 2010 after considering the NFL and proved that he could be smarter and more consistent with his decisions. He has shown great maturation since joining Arkansas in 2008 as a transfer from Michigan.

Mallett has all of the tools to become a sensational quarterback in the NFL. No matter the situation, he is a proven leader and hard worker, but can sometimes lose focus when things start to fall apart, as evidenced by Arkansas’ 2009 loss to Alabama. Mallett completed just 34 percent of his passes as the Razorbacks lost by a score of 35-7.

Teammates seem to rally around his vocal leadership and feed off his positive energy, but scouts will need to look into why coaches at Michigan had issues with him that eventually led to him transferring.

During spring practices in 2008, he missed the final two weeks due to an injured finger on his throwing hand. Other than that, there are no standout durability issues for Mallett.

Given the right coaching and the proper system, he could potentially put up big numbers in the NFL just as he did under Petrino. In order to succeed, he will need to work on controlling his strength on deep balls and making better decisions with defenders bearing down on him.

If the right circumstances arise, Mallett could come off the board in the late first/early second round of the 2011 draft.
He's got a lot of the same things the QBs in this class have, in different combinations, but enough (I think) to warrant a 1st round grade. Definitely NFL starter material.

Size
Major conference
Prolific
Pro style offense
Pocket Passer
Arm strength
Good decisions


What am I missing?
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Old 01-17-2014   #19
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
What am I missing?
He had off the field issues but I haven't been able to find any specifics.

PFT

Found this little tidbit on NFL.com from the same time of year as now. Sounds VERY similar to this year's draft. Sounds like the dark horse won...

NFL.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFL.com 1/6/2011
1. Carolina not on his mind
Andrew Luck's decision to stay in school seems shocking now, since it just happened, but it's actually consistent with what the Stanford quarterback has said all along. The fallout? It seriously devalues Carolina's pick, the first one in the draft, which figured to be as marketable as any in recent memory. And the reason why is simple. "Andrew Luck," one college scout told me, "is the safest quarterback prospect to come along since Peyton Manning." What you were bound to hear over the next few months, had Luck come out, was how Arkansas' Ryan Mallett has a stronger arm. Which is exactly what folks said about Manning in comparison to Ryan Leaf. That brings us to the second point of impact. You might hear now that no quarterback can rise to No. 1. Like when Matt Leinart decided to return to USC in 2005 (Alex Smith went first), or when Sam Bradford went back to Oklahoma in 2009 (Matthew Stafford went first). Someone will, inevitably, go up there. The first candidate would be Mallett, but sources say off-field concerns are likely to affect his stock. That brings us to Missouri's Blaine Gabbert, with Auburn's Cam Newton as the dark horse.
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Old 01-17-2014   #20
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Default Re: Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
He had off the field issues but I haven't been able to find any specifics.

PFT

Found this little tidbit on NFL.com from the same time of year as now. Sounds VERY similar to this year's draft. Sounds like the dark horse won...

NFL.com
To me, that sounds like Mallet should be given heavy consideration. OB drafted him. If he's matured some since then, he could be a steal. The Patriots wanted a high 2nd for him last year, I don't see why they'd want more this year.

The season we traded for Schaub, the Falcons were asking for a 1st, Rick Smith talked them into two 2s. If he can pull that off this year, give up two 3s for Mallet, or even this years 3 & next years 2, that would be a steal....

If Mallet delivers.
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