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Old 01-11-2014   #61
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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I don't agree with 76 when it comes to Keenum , he still believes in him , I think the experiment is over tho I would consider keeping him around as a backup , nothing more.

The most telling thing to me is that the more he played , the worse he got as defenses figured out how to make him uncomfortable and ineffective.
He started off pretty good , made some big plays along the way but was incapable of sustaining or finishing drives.

Would have been a great story , but there is no storybook ending for this one ....

Cut Schaub , draft a rookie , sign a cheap free agent .... let those two fight it out with Keenum & Yates.


Yeah , it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
The thing is, while all this losing streak was going on, and listening to Kubiak's press conferences, and his comments about how Case had to learn to do this and learn to do that, and had to improve this and improve that, I was thinking that Keenum was beginning to overthink things instead of just playing. O'Brien has a reputation of adjusting his game to fit his players. Kubiak seemed to put players in a straight jacket. This is what makes me think that, under evaluation, O'Brien may see things differently from the common perception.
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Old 01-11-2014   #62
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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The thing is, while all this losing streak was going on, and listening to Kubiak's press conferences, and his comments about how Case had to learn to do this and learn to do that, and had to improve this and improve that, I was thinking that Keenum was beginning to overthink things instead of just playing. O'Brien has a reputation of adjusting his game to fit his players. Kubiak seemed to put players in a straight jacket. This is what makes me think that, under evaluation, O'Brien may see things differently from the common perception.
I might give this line of thinking a second thought had Keenum been able to recognize pressure situations pre snap - He couldn't.

How many times did we see a team overload on one side , bring four and get home for a sack or cause a poor throw ?! Too damn many. Its the QB's job to identify those situations and get into the proper protection scheme.

The one thing I will concede is that the backs did a horrible job in picking up the blitz during that stretch .... but had they played flawlessly in that aspect , I don't think it changes much as Keenum just didn't make the right reads often enough.
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Old 01-11-2014   #63
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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IMO, you are wrong. Next year's team isn't even assembled yet, so it is flat out impossible for "it" to have any kind of expectations. Now, if you mean "you" have playoff aspirations for the team next season, IMO, you are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. Of course, you may be speaking only in hypotheticals, in which case all 32 teams have playoff aspirations. But realistically, significant improvement is what should be expected, or as I previously stated, 6 to 8 wins. We may do better, but, as fans, it should not be realistically expected. And I also think that O'Brian, and his future staff, will be much more qualified to determine what he can accomplish with T.J. and Case.
No. I'm looking at the fact that for a 2-14 team this team doesn't have as many holes as you would expect.

QB.
RB could be an issue if Foster isn't healthy but the most successful teams in the league don't rely on one solid back anymore these days.
Our OL is kind of weak at RT but that's really our only weakness.
WR. I think we're in pretty decent shape.
TE. I'm comfortable with our position.

On defense:
DL. We could use a true NT in RC's defense but I think that we have our end positions covered pretty well with JJ. We just need someone to occupy blockers opposite him.

LBs. Obviously this is our weakest position on the team outside of QB. Cush may or may not be back so you have to look for his replacement (or partner if he comes back). WM is passable and I would move Reed inside and try to get a better Sam. If Cush comes back I'm good with WM, BR, BC, X If not you have two holes to fill.

DBs.

I really don't think our DBs are as bad as they looked. Jackson is a true #1 and JJoe has regressed but he's still an outstanding #2. Find a nickel guy and we're in decent shape for the CBs.

At S I'm ok with Manning/Swearenger.

Fill QB, One of the two LBs, RT and RB if Foster doesn't come back healthy, and this is a playoff team. The key is to add solid depth but this team should not be shooting for 6-8 wins next season. There is just too much talent and besides, suppose we win 6 games next year. That's probably the 7-10th pick. We have no idea who will be out there.

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Old 01-11-2014   #64
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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...The most telling thing to me is that the more he played , the worse he got as defenses figured out how to make him uncomfortable and ineffective.
He started off pretty good , made some big plays along the way but was incapable of sustaining or finishing drives...
How much of this was on Kubiak for not being flexible enough to make adjustments and on play calling? Kubiak was one dimensional and didn't seem to be an innovator. When Kubiak's system, and play calling, was figured out, this was too much for a rookie to overcome.
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Old 01-11-2014   #65
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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How much of this was on Kubiak for not being flexible enough to make adjustments and on play calling? Kubiak was one dimensional and didn't seem to be an innovator. When Kubiak's system, and play calling, was figured out, this was too much for a rookie to overcome.
What you fail to realize is that every play had adjustments that could be made at the line. Its on the QB to recognize presnap those situations and make the proper adjustment calls be that a route combination , a protection package or both.


Most people here seem to think that the QB's were not allowed to audible but the fact is that they were able to make the necessary changes to be successful against any given defensive scheme at any given time.

For instance , they call a run play with 8 in the box .... they have a pass play from the same set that they can adjust to.
The defense shows an overload on one side or the other , the line has different responsibilities and the route combinations change along with the # of steps in the QB's drop or they have a run play from the same set ....

We don't see all this as fans watching the game but the adjustments are at the QB's disposal.


We just think "they don't audible" .....
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Old 01-11-2014   #66
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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I'm not quite as satisfied with our defensive backs. I saw too many deep balls being given up. But I do agree that fixing our pass rush may help alleviate this problem. And maybe new coaching might help the cover skills.

I agree that the players named form a good core to bring back. I still think we need at least one safety and one CB.

We need an OLB and an ILB. Maybe Reed moves inside.

And I agree, the big hole we need to address is the big guy in the middle of the DL.

But I think you overlooked replacing Antonio Smith. Do you expect him back? Maybe Crick replaces him, but I think we still need another player here.

So I've got six holes that need addressing, at a minimum. Some of these may be addressed in free agency, as you say. I don't think we are that much in disagreement.

It's just that I'd address these with quality draft picks. By that, I mean taken in the first three rounds. Maybe the forth. But this is more holes than we have picks to fill.

So when you write, "... I have a feeling he's going to take a look at the personnel we have, see how many picks he can get, ask for a FA or two, and then implement some sort of hybrid to take advantage of everyone's strengths...", I'm in total agreement.

I'm just thinking that two quality draft picks doesn't do it.
We don't have to solve all our problems. We only have to solve the RIGHT problems and then implement schemes to cover the others.

We have free agency and we have the draft and we have players on our roster (including IR) who might be used more effectively.

Antonio Smith has said he wants to remain a Texan. I expect him to get an offer too good for us to match. BUT. If we are going to a 2-gap defensive line, he might not be the DE we want and someone like Crick might even fit the bill better.

But the bottom line is that every team has flaws and holes. A good team finds ways to win.
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Old 01-11-2014   #67
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

My ideal scenario would be Clowney at #1 and Boyd at #33.
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Old 01-11-2014   #68
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

FWIW, O'Brien refers to himself as "Obie" in his Brown University yearbook entry, and I've started to refer to him as OB1, but that's me.

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But BO would be confusing with an OBAMANATION with the same initials.
Yeah, some people with thin skin and shorter tempers might not be able to handle it.
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Old 01-12-2014   #69
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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But BO would be confusing with an OBAMANATION with the same initials.

BM isn't really a good thing to call our owner unless he starts wearing Jersey number 2.

I'll go along with BOB for the coach and Bob for the owner. Fair enough?
Bill - coach

Bob -owner


that was not too hard was it? same amt of letters in Bill and BOB (Bill O'Brien)
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Old 01-12-2014   #70
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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What you fail to realize is that every play had adjustments that could be made at the line. Its on the QB to recognize presnap those situations and make the proper adjustment calls be that a route combination , a protection package or both.


Most people here seem to think that the QB's were not allowed to audible but the fact is that they were able to make the necessary changes to be successful against any given defensive scheme at any given time.

For instance , they call a run play with 8 in the box .... they have a pass play from the same set that they can adjust to.
The defense shows an overload on one side or the other , the line has different responsibilities and the route combinations change along with the # of steps in the QB's drop or they have a run play from the same set ....

We don't see all this as fans watching the game but the adjustments are at the QB's disposal.


We just think "they don't audible" .....
I understand this. We differ on expectations of success from a third string rookie coming in at mid-season and how quickly the book should be closed on him.

The story on O'Brien is that he's not like other rookie NFL HC's. He's his own man. The draft may be the first indication how this is going to play out.

I'm going to be OK with whatever decisions are made by the new coaching staff and will look forward to the new season.
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Old 01-12-2014   #71
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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I don't agree with 76 when it comes to Keenum , he still believes in him , I think the experiment is over tho I would consider keeping him around as a backup , nothing more.

The most telling thing to me is that the more he played , the worse he got as defenses figured out how to make him uncomfortable and ineffective.
He started off pretty good , made some big plays along the way but was incapable of sustaining or finishing drives.

Would have been a great story , but there is no storybook ending for this one ....

Cut Schaub , draft a rookie , sign a cheap free agent .... let those two fight it out with Keenum & Yates.


Yeah , it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Was it him that defenses figured out or was it our predictable checkdown offense? I'm still wondering if it would of mattered who QB'ed this offense. Case fits what O'brian is looking for in a QB. I'm looking forward to seeing how that all turns out.

I'm not willing to gamble on it. I'm getting a QB but I think there is a chance his career could be salvaged. I'm not 100 % giving up on him.
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Old 01-12-2014   #72
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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This team has a lot of talent ... if they get the right guy at QB , Cushing & Foster regain their form and they stay injury free .... they could really surprise us and maybe make the playoffs.
This division isn't particularly good .... Even the Dolts have issues , Luck doesn't look like the world beater he was hyped to be despite the fact that they are in the playoffs and won last week ....


The fortunes of this team all come down to the QB position .....




I was peeking at your draft notes ....

pfff u must have a lot more optimism

were is this "Talent" u speak Off I just don't see it Foster Brown Cushing andre there not has good has u think
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Old 01-12-2014   #73
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

My ideal scenario would be a trade down to get a few extra picks, take Matthews, take a shot with a QB in the second or third round, and bolster the **** out of this team with depth. If we're hell-bent on getting catastrophic injuries up and down the roster year after year after year after year, the depth has to improve.

As for names, why can't people just call them "McNair" and "O'Brien"? The constant abbreviation/nicknaming of things in society is exhausting and wholly unnecessary.
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Old 01-12-2014   #74
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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I understand this. We differ on expectations of success from a third string rookie coming in at mid-season and how quickly the book should be closed on him.
Keenum wasn't a rookie , he had two full offseason's , year on the practice squad and a half season on the 53 man roster to learn the system & playbook.

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Was it him that defenses figured out or was it our predictable checkdown offense? I'm still wondering if it would of mattered who QB'ed this offense. Case fits what O'brian is looking for in a QB. I'm looking forward to seeing how that all turns out.

I'm not willing to gamble on it. I'm getting a QB but I think there is a chance his career could be salvaged. I'm not 100 % giving up on him.
I didn't 100% give up on Keenum career wise .... I think he could be a capable backup. That's not a bad career path all things considered.
Where I draw the line is that I don't believe he's starter material & I'm not willing to go into next season with him as the starter .... Give me an early draft pick and a vet FA .... let the three of them fight it out.


As for what defenses caught onto , I think it was pretty obvious that it was Keenum's inability make routine reads in the 5-15 yard range that sustain drives & dealing with pressure early within the scope of a play. Now if he could avoid the early pressure , he made some big plays.

Go back and watch some of that train wreck of a season if you can stomach it ... Its plain to see what he had issues with. The fact that his best performance was in the first half of the first game is very telling .... From that point on , it was a downward spiral for the most part.
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Old 01-12-2014   #75
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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Keenum wasn't a rookie , he had two full offseason's , year on the practice squad and a half season on the 53 man roster to learn the system & playbook.
This was predictable; I was expecting it. The bottom line is the number of reps he was given to absorb the complexity of the play calling and the speed of the game. The practice squad is the "scout" team. He had little time with the Texans' scheme. The half season on the 53 man roster - Schaub takes the majority of reps each week, TJ had some and Case had the remaining. Training camp was the majority of his opportunity to "learn". These two years, the film room was the basis for his schooling in the game, but you need reps. What is it teams have, three days a week in full pads? So Case had maybe a total of 24 practices, each week dealing with a new defensive.
Quote:
...Give me an early draft pick and a vet FA .... let the three of them fight it out...
In my scenario I mentioned acquiring a veteran FA QB. But drafting a QB in the first round, there will no competition.

Given his circumstances, the game hadn't yet "slowed down" for Case.
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Old 01-12-2014   #76
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

Corrosion ought to know me; I had rewatched all the plays, especially the incompletions, sacks, INts at least a dozen times each, often many more times.
In fact, I've been spending time re-watching them the last few days; and those won't be the last times, I can guarantee with him that.

Corrosion, TXMike, TK and the likes are overstating the situations, from what I see.

We've seen Kaepernick got sacked 3 times last week while Rodgers was decked 4 times.
We've seen Wilson got his 3 yesterday while running away from many others.
And let's see, he threw for a whopping 103 yard.
How about that fellow Luck? Let's see; 3 sacks and 4 INts.
Oh, and he threw 3 INTs last week, too.
Defenses had him figured out, I bet.
I mean, these guys obviously are career back-ups.

I've watched Drew Brees throw 5 INTs against the Falcons in 2012.
I mean that guy obviously is a career back up.
In his second year, his TD/InT was 8/13 in a 9-game stretch.
It didn't get any better his third year as he started the first 8 games with 7/12
In the Chargers' lone win, he threw for 74 yards, zero TD, and an INT.
He was so bad that he had a 49-yd game. The Chargers ended up winning another game, a meaningless game in the last week of the season with Brees throwing for 97 yards, whoopie do!
In his second year with the Saints, he started the first 4 games with one TD and 9 INTs.
I mean, some guy can only get so many chances.
Drew Brees is a career back-up.

Look at Keenum, he had had his chances; now we move on.

Obviously, I need a big sarcasm emoticon here, LOL.
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Old 01-12-2014   #77
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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Corrosion ought to know me; I had rewatched all the plays, especially the incompletions, sacks, INts at least a dozen times each, often many more times.
In fact, I've been spending time re-watching them the last few days; and those won't be the last times, I can guarantee with him that.

Corrosion, TXMike, TK and the likes are overstating the situations, from what I see.

We've seen Kaepernick got sacked 3 times last week while Rodgers was decked 4 times.
We've seen Wilson got his 3 yesterday while running away from many others.
And let's see, he threw for a whopping 103 yard.
How about that fellow Luck? Let's see; 3 sacks and 4 INts.
Oh, and he threw 3 INTs last week, too.
Defenses had him figured out, I bet.
I mean, these guys obviously are career back-ups.

I've watched Drew Brees throw 5 INTs against the Falcons in 2012.
I mean that guy obviously is a career back up.
In his second year, his TD/InT was 8/13 in a 9-game stretch.
It didn't get any better his third year as he started the first 8 games with 7/12
In the Chargers' lone win, he threw for 74 yards, zero TD, and an INT.
He was so bad that he had a 49-yd game. The Chargers ended up winning another game, a meaningless game in the last week of the season with Brees throwing for 97 yards, whoopie do!
In his second year with the Saints, he started the first 4 games with one TD and 9 INTs.
I mean, some guy can only get so many chances.
Drew Brees is a career back-up.

Look at Keenum, he had had his chances; now we move on.

Obviously, I need a big sarcasm emoticon here, LOL.
I will admit that it is possible that Case Manning exists. He could figure it all out and win the MVP next year or 5 years from now. Every player has a chance to improve dramatically at any point in their career.

That said, for every Drew Brees there are 400 Dave Ragones.

Mike
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Old 01-12-2014   #78
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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I will admit that it is possible that Case Manning exists. He could figure it all out and win the MVP next year or 5 years from now. Every player has a chance to improve dramatically at any point in their career.

That said, for every Drew Brees there are 400 Dave Ragones.

Mike
That was why I voted "not sure" in the Keenum's thread.

I didn't write him in, nor did I write him off.

As with the QBs with lesser stature, he's always a long shot until he proves he can do it (whatever that "it" one defines it is.)
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Old 01-12-2014   #79
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That was why I voted "not sure" in the Keenum's thread.

I didn't write him in, nor did I write him off.

As with the QB with lesser stature, he's always a long shot until he proves he can do it (whatever that "it" one defines it is.)
Well I never said "cut him". I am fine with letting him compete but you better find someone else. If you think he's really going to just leap ahead of the pack then let him perform his miracle and surpass his successor. Much better than finding out you were wrong about him AND having done nothing this offseason.

Mike
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Old 01-12-2014   #80
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Default Re: Ideal Scenarios

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Well I never said "cut him". I am fine with letting him compete but you better find someone else. If you think he's really going to just leap ahead of the pack then let him perform his miracle and surpass his successor. Much better than finding out you were wrong about him AND having done nothing this offseason.

Mike
Sure, when TK first mentioned about a vet, I think it makes sense.

But I noted right away that a guy like Cutler will be too expensive, and turned out to be true when Cutler signed that big contract.
There's slim picking with the rest.

I also agreed with taking a QB in this draft; however, I just don't see a clear cut guy I want to build the franchise with.
One of them may work out, but all of them have their own warts.

I'm not one who likes short-term, patch-work solution.
I don't have to worry about my job on the line with the Texans; neither does O'Brien in the near term.

I would rather trade away for as many future picks as possible.
There are several better looking prospects in the next couple of years.

Let the other teams get stuck with this year class.
There won't be as many if them to vie for the current top four of Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, and possibly Christian Hackenberg (if he comes out.) As a group, these guys will most certainly present a better looking class, unless something goes wrong for them.

If you think Belichik doesn't pay attention to the O-line, think again.
He always paid a lot attention to that unit.
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