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Old 01-11-2014   #961
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Tearstain View Post
Am I honestly reading about how big a mans hands are?
What next? Does he have manicured fingernails?


All this QB talk is getting weird by the day.
Scouts will probably go even further. I know teams also tend to get a little too personal when doing interview questions. These kids are going to get dissected to every little detail from here till the draft.
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Old 01-11-2014   #962
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Tearstain View Post
Am I honestly reading about how big a mans hands are?
What next? Does he have manicured fingernails?


All this QB talk is getting weird by the day.
How about a goalie with small hands ?
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Old 01-11-2014   #963
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
But since we have no reliable baseline, how does getting to 215 show ability? We have no idea what he weighed "before", so we can't say "oh he weighed X amount before and now weighs 215 so good on him for putting on that weight" It's all such huge amounts of speculation.
Louisville said he weighed 205lbs. We can go with that.
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Old 01-11-2014   #964
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
There's a big difference between 6'4" 211 & 6'3" 195

Like I said before. If he weighs in over 210 at the combine, I'll be surprised. If he weighs in at 215, I'm on board the Bridgewater train. If he weighs in at 220, I'm leading the parade down Kirby.
I'm 390. Does that make me Superman?
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Old 01-11-2014   #965
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
How about a goalie with small hands ?
It don't matter unless he is dropping the ball regular.

Is the QB losing the ball regular?
If so then yes it may be one of the issues.

Suppose I am worried we may be alienating fans to certain QBs. So which ever one we get there will be certain people not hoping he fails but ready to jump on any mistakes he does.
Creating a bad atmosphere.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 01-11-2014   #966
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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I'm 390. Does that make me Superman?
Can you play nose guard ?
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Old 01-11-2014   #967
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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I'm 390. Does that make me Superman?
Can you run a pro offense?


Look. If you don't know how to evaluate NFL talent that's fine. Some of us are better suited to the college game, where some things just don't matter. There's no shame in that.
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Old 01-11-2014   #968
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Thing is you're making stuff up also. TB doesn't hold the ball low,plus he keeps 2 hands on the ball even when he's climbing or navigating in the pocket. That's why when he takes sacks,the ball doesn't move,nor do you see guys run by and knock the ball out.
He does hold the ball low , below the shoulder about mid-chest. You are correct in general he holds it with two hands while in the pocket and that absolutely has something to do with him hanging onto the ball.
The ball position may also be the reason for the loop in the top of his throwing motion.

Here's a comparison shot for you: (couldn't match sizes as that's the only one of Manziel that wasn't money signs or girls in bikini's ....)





As for the hand size issue , that'll come out in the draft combine and we can either forget it or it becomes a legit concern.

I don't "dislike" Bridgewater .... I just have some questions about him , one of which we cant answer until he steps on an NFL field , everything else will either be answered at the combine. Level of competition will remain a question.

To be honest , I wouldn't be upset if they pick any of the three between Bortles , Bridgewater & Manziel. They all have redeeming qualities and they all have some questions about them. Just so happens I like them in a different order than you ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tearstain View Post
Am I honestly reading about how big a mans hands are?
What next? Does he have manicured fingernails?


All this QB talk is getting weird by the day.
Hand size is a valid concern for a QB. TPN explained it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Dave Krieg had very small hands. And because of that, he was prone to fumbling. He didn't have as good a grip on the ball as someone with larger hands.

So.

Yeah, hand-size is important for a QB.
And bah007 agrees.

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
For the record, if his hands measure small at the combine it will be a red flag, no matter what the TB lovers say.

We'll find out down to the 1/8th of an inch at the combine , those bastards will measure everything including the length of the hairs on his ass. They are very meticulous .....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tearstain View Post
It don't matter unless he is dropping the ball regular.

Is the QB losing the ball regular?
If so then yes it may be one of the issues.

Suppose I am worried we may be alienating fans to certain QBs. So which ever one we get there will be certain people not hoping he fails but ready to jump on any mistakes he does.
Creating a bad atmosphere.

Hope that makes sense.
I don't give a damn what fans think when the choice is made , all I care is that the guy they decide upon is the right guy. No more HWWNBM , Matt Schaub , Case Keenum .... I'm sick of the other team having a better QB while we have an "adequate" or worse" player at the position.
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Old 01-11-2014   #969
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I don't give a damn what fans think when the choice is made , all I care is that the guy they decide upon is the right guy. No more HWWNBM , Matt Schaub , Case Keenum .... I'm sick of the other team having a better QB while we have an "adequate" or worse" player at the position.
Amen, which is why Teddy will be the Texan selection come this May
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Old 01-11-2014   #970
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
He does hold the ball low , below the shoulder about mid-chest. You are correct in general he holds it with two hands while in the pocket and that absolutely has something to do with him hanging onto the ball.
The ball position may also be the reason for the loop in the top of his throwing motion.
I think it's definitely a part of it. Boyd holds the ball similarly, but his windup is much more fluid & faster than Bridgewater's. If you watch Bridgewater without the TB colored glasses, you'll see his windup is two part. One, there is a definite jerk to get the ball to his ear, then he draws the ball back.
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Old 01-11-2014   #971
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think it's definitely a part of it. Boyd holds the ball similarly, but his windup is much more fluid & faster than Bridgewater's. If you watch Bridgewater without the TB colored glasses, you'll see his windup is two part. One, there is a definite jerk to get the ball to his ear, then he draws the ball back.
Boyd definitely has a stranger throwing motion than does Bridgewater. Boyd has a bit of a sidearm delivery.
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Old 01-11-2014   #972
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
He does hold the ball low , below the shoulder about mid-chest. You are correct in general he holds it with two hands while in the pocket and that absolutely has something to do with him hanging onto the ball.
The ball position may also be the reason for the loop in the top of his throwing motion.

Here's a comparison shot for you: (couldn't match sizes as that's the only one of Manziel that wasn't money signs or girls in bikini's ....)





As for the hand size issue , that'll come out in the draft combine and we can either forget it or it becomes a legit concern.

I don't "dislike" Bridgewater .... I just have some questions about him , one of which we cant answer until he steps on an NFL field , everything else will either be answered at the combine. Level of competition will remain a question.

To be honest , I wouldn't be upset if they pick any of the three between Bortles , Bridgewater & Manziel. They all have redeeming qualities and they all have some questions about them. Just so happens I like them in a different order than you ....




Hand size is a valid concern for a QB. TPN explained it well.



And bah007 agrees.




We'll find out down to the 1/8th of an inch at the combine , those bastards will measure everything including the length of the hairs on his ass. They are very meticulous .....




I don't give a damn what fans think when the choice is made , all I care is that the guy they decide upon is the right guy. No more HWWNBM , Matt Schaub , Case Keenum .... I'm sick of the other team having a better QB while we have an "adequate" or worse" player at the position.
Ehhh, i dont think where he holds the ball is a big deal. The Manning boys are the only qb's i can think of in the NFL who consistently hold the ball up by their ear like that.....Most other qbs in the NFL hold the ball right where TB holds it now and it is far more normal to hold it there in the NFl than holding it up by the ear... Jeff tedford coaches all his qb's to hold it up by the ear...but if you google pics of rodgers right now he's holding it chest high...its a comfort thing really.

Its far more prevalent for coaches in college to teach and require their qbs to hold it up by the ear b/c many of these coaches run spread offenses where the name of the game is to get the ball out as fast as possible to your speed guys in space on those quick hitting plays that are so prevalent in spread systems. Holding it up by your ear like that helps speed with the speed of the release....
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Old 01-11-2014   #973
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Ehhh, i dont think where he holds the ball is a big deal. The Manning boys are the only qb's i can think of in the NFL who consistently hold the ball up by their ear like that.....Most other qbs in the NFL hold the ball right where TB holds it now and it is far more normal to hold it there in the NFl than holding it up by the ear... Jeff tedford coaches all his qb's to hold it up by the ear...but if you google pics of rodgers right now he's holding it chest high...its a comfort thing really.

Its far more prevalent for coaches in college to teach and require their qbs to hold it up by the ear b/c many of these coaches run spread offenses where the name of the game is to get the ball out as fast as possible to your speed guys in space on those quick hitting plays that are so prevalent in spread systems. Holding it up by your ear like that helps speed with the speed of the release....
That's one of the things that makes Peyton Manning a special player ... He gets the ball out routinely in ~1.6 seconds and kills blitzes because of it. A big part of that is his mechanics and footwork ....
Teams are going to blitz & create pressure with overloads on a regular basis in the NFL .... getting the ball out rapidly & on target are key in beating those situations.
This was one of the reasons Keenum failed so miserably .... failure to get the ball out quickly , along with defenses catching on to how to stop him - pressure.

To me , if you start with solid mechanics , you are ahead of the game and can make minor , comfortability adjustments as time goes on.
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Old 01-11-2014   #974
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Holding it up by your ear like that helps speed with the speed of the release....
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.

I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.

I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).

The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.

Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
  1. He's short.
    6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
  2. He's skinny
    His durability is a concern
  3. He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
    It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand.
  4. He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
    I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball
  5. He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
    This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.

I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.

This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.

Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
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Old 01-11-2014   #975
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

NVM
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Old 01-11-2014   #976
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
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Old 01-12-2014   #977
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.

I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.

I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).

The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.

Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
  1. He's short.
    6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
  2. He's skinny
    His durability is a concern
  3. He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
    It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand.
  4. He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
    I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball
  5. He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
    This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.

I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.

This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.

Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
I don't knowh how paste pics,but this had me googling. I saw rodgers,matt ryan,and terrific tom brady holding the ball in the same position as bridgewater. I've never heard anyone say the ball is low ether. Don't believe me, google those qbs holding the ball and you will get the image.

Rodgers holding the ball by his ear killed his velocity. Gb lowered his release and now all of sudden he has a cannon.
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Old 01-12-2014   #978
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

I think back on scouting reports of tj yates and video I saw of him. On the move in the pocket his mechanics went to hell but he improv'd well and threw at awkward angles with his feet well out of line. Pass pro broke down in every other clip and scouts didn't bash him for bad mechanics, they lauded him for being able to complete passes under less then ideal conditions. Lets be realistic. If your evaluating mechanics do it under perfect conditions with a clean pocket. Otherwise your evaluating a qb's ability to complete a pass under duress. Just wanted to put it out there...


Another thing that comes to mind is the report on Blaine Gannett. He had a very good completion percentage. Lots of scouts elevated him because of it. The truth was his average downfield pass was something like 6 yards...which was below the norm. He took the check down more often then not. His contended passes on a college level downfield were an exception. In the nfl almost everythings contended.

Not entirely sure how to make all of this full circle but it stuck with me for one reason or another. Completion percentages don't always = accurate...only safe . Mechanics are easiest to evaluate only in a perfect pocket. Truth is, I don't give a damn about mechanics if my qb is flushed out of the pocket on 3rd and 7...only his ability to keep the drive alive.
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Old 01-12-2014   #979
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I don't knowh how paste pics,but this had me googling. I saw rodgers,matt ryan,and terrific tom brady holding the ball in the same position as bridgewater. I've never heard anyone say the ball is low ether. Don't believe me, google those qbs holding the ball and you will get the image.
.
I acknowledged that most QBs do in fact hold the ball at their chest. Just like most of them aren't 6'5", it is less than ideal, and not conducive to a quick release. The same way that most NFL QBs are not 6'5" most QBs don't hold the ball high like they should.
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Old 01-12-2014   #980
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
I'm not trying to sway anyone. Like you, I'm undecided & thinking out loud.

But it's going to get worse, the closer we get to the draft. This is the time myths are created.
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