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Old 01-11-2014   #401
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
If they hold true to form, they'll steer away from Matt Cassell and I doubt the staff is even thinking about him.
Cassel was drafted in 2005 and O'Brien was not on the pats then. It is fair to say the Texans will bring in a vet? I think it's also fair to say a qb familiar with O'Brien or an O'Brien offense is reasonable speculation. I think it's a solid guess by steele to think what he does. We have seen a tendency thus far for coaches O'Brien knows...you don't think O'Brien will pursue players he knows?
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Old 01-11-2014   #402
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Cassel was drafted in 2005 and O'Brien was not on the pats then. It is fair to say the Texans will bring in a vet? I think it's also fair to say a qb familiar with O'Brien or an O'Brien offense is reasonable speculation. I think it's a solid guess by steele to think what he does. We have seen a tendency thus far for coaches O'Brien knows...you don't think O'Brien will pursue players he knows?
It is fair to say the Texans will bring in vet in, but it won't be Matt Cassel. Matt Cassel was a aberration that season (11-5) and moved on to get coaches that will most likely be on this staff fired... as well as a past G.M., which is why O'Brien knows him and won't bring him in.

I highly doubt O'Brien even looks up Cassel's phone # when he does look for a vet. I'd put better odds on him keeping a younger player already on staff like Keenum to back up than to bring in Matt Cassel. If O'Brien does go for a seasoned vet to mentor his young QB (assuming we take one high) and teach him the ropes and what to do and not do.. it isn't going to be Matt Cassel, because despite all of the time Cassel has spent in the league, he still hasn't figured those things out yet. I'd rather have Schaub on the sidelines doing that job.

People keep talking about the "Kansas City turn around" in this thread.. They've had a loaded team for a couple of years now. All they had to do was cut ties with the anchor that was Matt Cassel, the guy that made bone headed play after bone headed play, and kept turning the ball over. As soon as they hired a guy who's known for protecting the ball they instantly vaulted towards contention.

So no thanks.. I'm high on the O'Brien hire, but if he even things about bringing in Cassel I'll have to start questioning his decision making regarding that position.
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Old 01-11-2014   #403
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Cassel was drafted in 2005 and O'Brien was not on the pats then. It is fair to say the Texans will bring in a vet? I think it's also fair to say a qb familiar with O'Brien or an O'Brien offense is reasonable speculation. I think it's a solid guess by steele to think what he does. We have seen a tendency thus far for coaches O'Brien knows...you don't think O'Brien will pursue players he knows?
You speak of this "tendency" as if it's a bad thing. He's a new NFL head coach. He doesn't have much time to build a staff. You can't name one head coach in the history of the NFL who did things any differently. The real test will be on hires beyond this season.

But yes, it makes sense for him to look at players he's familiar with. If you believe the QB was our biggest issue, then getting a QB familiar with what O'Brien wants to do should help us get to winning. If you're against winning & all about a rookie QB, that's fine. Personally, I want to win & I want to draft our future QB. But I don't want to over commit to the rookie, or to the veteran.

& to further your point, O'Brien was with the patriots from 2007-2011.
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On February 21, 2008, O'Brien was promoted to wide receivers coach.[8] He became the quarterbacks coach and offensive play-caller following the 2008 season after the departure of quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. He was promoted to offensive coordinator in February 2011.
Cassell's great season was 2008, under Josh McDaniels.

If O'Brien is thinking about Cassell, I'd think he's at the bottom of the list.

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Old 01-11-2014   #404
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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You speak of this "tendency" as if it's a bad thing. He's a new NFL head coach. He doesn't have much time to build a staff. You can't name one head coach in the history of the NFL who did things any differently. The real test will be on hires beyond this season.

But yes, it makes sense for him to look at players he's familiar with. If you believe the QB was our biggest issue, then getting a QB familiar with what O'Brien wants to do should help us get to winning. If you're against winning & all about a rookie QB, that's fine. Personally, I want to win & I want to draft our future QB. But I don't want to over commit to the rookie, or to the veteran.

& to further your point, O'Brien was with the patriots from 2007-2011.
Cassell's great season was 2008, under Josh McDaniels.

If O'Brien is thinking about Cassell, I'd think he's at the bottom of the list.

Mallet
Hoyer
Cassell
You know, if O'Brien is looking for a stop-gap QB, no one here will like it, but he's probably looking really hard at Schaub too.
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Old 01-11-2014   #405
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

George Godsey -- OC(?)
??? -- OL
Stan Hixon -- WRs
Charles London -- RBs

Romeo Crennel -- DC
Mike Vrabel -- LBs
Anthony Midget -- Safties(?)
John Butler -- CBs(?)

Bill Kollar -- DL

Craig Fitzgerald -- Strength & Conditioning
Jim Bernhardt -- QC
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Old 01-11-2014   #406
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
George Godsey -- OC(?)
??? -- OL
Stan Hixon -- WRs
Charles London -- RBs

Romeo Crennel -- DC
Mike Vrabel -- LBs
Anthony Midget -- Safties(?)
John Butler -- CBs(?)

Bill Kollar -- DL

Craig Fitzgerald -- Strength & Conditioning
Jim Bernhardt -- QC
add a big ? for special teams too
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Old 01-11-2014   #407
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
George Godsey -- OC(?)
??? -- OL
Stan Hixon -- WRs
Charles London -- RBs

Romeo Crennel -- DC
Mike Vrabel -- LBs
Anthony Midget -- Safties(?)
John Butler -- CBs(?)

Bill Kollar -- DL

Craig Fitzgerald -- Strength & Conditioning
Jim Bernhardt -- QC
Should be question marks behind Crennel.

Edit: NVM, I just heard.
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Old 01-11-2014   #408
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'm normally a sun-shiner and by the time the draft rolls around, I'm sure I'll be looking for the bright side of everything.

But.

The Miami Dolphins went 1-15 and then the next year (playing a last place schedule), they went 11-5 and went to the playoffs. And a couple more years of <50% winning after that and the coach was fired and they were trying again.

The Chiefs and the Eagles haven't shown that they can sustain this winning, yet. They may be back to bottom-feeding next year.

Most teams since 1990 or so that have 2 win seasons and change coaches improve to a 6 win season.

So that's what I consider a realistic expectation. I'm hoping for more and I'll be cheering the team on. But that's my expectation.
Thought I would flesh this out a bit with a couple years prior and three after. Numbers are wins:

Carolina: 12, 8, 2, 6, 7, 12
Detroit: 7, 0, 2, 6, 10, 4
KC: 9, 4, 2, 4, 10, 7 - extra, 2, 11
St. Louis: 8, 3, 2, 1, 7, 2 - extra, 7, 7
Oakland: 5, 4, 2, 4, 5, 5
Houston: 5, 7, 2, 6, 8, 8
San Fran: 10, 7, 2, 4, 7, 5

Houston Rd. 2: 10, 12, 2, ?

KC this time is an aberration. One thing does stand out though, Houston's drop was also an aberration. Only Carolina comes even moderately close. On average teams dropped 2.7 wins to get to 2. Houston dropped 10. On average teams gained 2.4 wins after being at 2.

I don't expect a KC turnaround but I do expect a bigger than normal bounce back because for the Texans it actually is a bounce back.
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Old 01-11-2014   #409
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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You know, if O'Brien is looking for a stop-gap QB, no one here will like it, but he's probably looking really hard at Schaub too.
Once he reviews game film from this past season that will remove MS post haste
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Old 01-11-2014   #410
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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add a big ? for special teams too
No word on Ligashecky's status. High energy guy, but not sure about his results.
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Old 01-11-2014   #411
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No word on Ligashecky's status. High energy guy, but not sure about his results.


They may want to give him a year without the suck of Marciano and see how he does on his own
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Old 01-11-2014   #412
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Okay. Everything you said is a solid case to build hope on.

But expecting playoffs based on the above when the Texans don't even have a starting QB right now?

Expectation is a "strong belief that something will happen". You are free to expect whatever you want, but for myself, I'm not going to set myself up for disappointment. I'm a patient fan that knows it can take time.

Obviously, I'd love nothing more than the Texans in the playoffs in 2014. However, I'm not going to join the Fire O'Brien Club if it does not happen, and that, to me, is the difference between hope and expectation.
Count me in this category too. O'Brien will likely spend this season installing his system(s) and weeding out the guys that don't fit while finding guys that do. If we make the playoffs during this process, that's so much yummy gravy.
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Old 01-11-2014   #413
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Count me in this category too. O'Brien will likely spend this season installing his system(s) and weeding out the guys that don't fit while finding guys that do. If we make the playoffs during this process, that's so much yummy gravy.
I'm pretty sure we have all set ourselves up for disappointment the moment we became Texans fans
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Old 01-11-2014   #414
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

I was thinking about our QB situation if I was BOB the first thing I would do is make sure were I stand and tell Mcnair lets get real here 2014 will be a rebuilding year yeah we will still try and win but lets get real here if we win 7 games in a rebuilding year hey .....that's a up IMO

that would give me the green light to not reach for a QB in the draft if I really don't like one ...if he likes a QB tho then hey Grab him but that's your guy tho for the next 4 years tho I wouldn't take that chance

I would


Cut Yates and Keenum

then in a unpopular Decesion I would keep Matt Schaub has a stop gap Vet QB

then I would draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round .....

and that's it I would only have 2 QB's no need wasting a 3rd spot

next year I would draft a QB in the 1st round which will be a much better QB class
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Old 01-11-2014   #415
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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So for all you pessimists out there, why is it the Chiefs AND Eagles cleaned house and in one off-season turned it around? But the Texans with equally OR better talent, cannot?

Its because you're all whiny and hate life.
Because the overall data says those are exceptions, not the rule. For every Chief turnaround you point to, there's the Jags or the Browns or the Raiders or the Lions where that worst-to-first miracle didn't happen.

We're not pessimists. We're pragmatic.
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Old 01-11-2014   #416
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Because the overall data says those are exceptions, not the rule. For every Chief turnaround you point to, there's the Jags or the Browns or the Raiders or the Lions where that worst-to-first miracle didn't happen.

We're not pessimists. We're pragmatic.
Those teams had almost ZERO talent in the turn around year. The Chiefs, Eagles and the Texans have talent
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Old 01-11-2014   #417
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Thought I would flesh this out a bit with a couple years prior and three after. Numbers are wins:

Carolina: 12, 8, 2, 6, 7, 12
Detroit: 7, 0, 2, 6, 10, 4
KC: 9, 4, 2, 4, 10, 7 - extra, 2, 11
St. Louis: 8, 3, 2, 1, 7, 2 - extra, 7, 7
Oakland: 5, 4, 2, 4, 5, 5
Houston: 5, 7, 2, 6, 8, 8
San Fran: 10, 7, 2, 4, 7, 5

Houston Rd. 2: 10, 12, 2, ?

KC this time is an aberration. One thing does stand out though, Houston's drop was also an aberration. Only Carolina comes even moderately close. On average teams dropped 2.7 wins to get to 2. Houston dropped 10. On average teams gained 2.4 wins after being at 2.

I don't expect a KC turnaround but I do expect a bigger than normal bounce back because for the Texans it actually is a bounce back.
Aaah... thank you. Saved me a bunch of data-mining. I had already looked into the Lions and Chiefs. What you could have also mentioned is that the Lions went thru 3-4 HC's during that period. The Chiefs, I think, are on their 3rd HC just in that timeframe.
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Old 01-11-2014   #418
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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I was thinking about our QB situation if I was BOB the first thing I would do is make sure were I stand and tell Mcnair lets get real here 2014 will be a rebuilding year yeah we will still try and win but lets get real here if we win 7 games in a rebuilding year hey .....that's a up IMO

that would give me the green light to not reach for a QB in the draft if I really don't like one ...if he likes a QB tho then hey Grab him but that's your guy tho for the next 4 years tho I wouldn't take that chance

I would


Cut Yates and Keenum

then in a unpopular Decesion I would keep Matt Schaub has a stop gap Vet QB

then I would draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round .....

and that's it I would only have 2 QB's no need wasting a 3rd spot

next year I would draft a QB in the 1st round which will be a much better QB class
Uh.... no.

I don't have a problem keeping Matt Schaub, but we'll have to renegotiate his contract, get his cap number. I'll look at the numbers in more detail later, but Schaub would have to be willing to take a $4M cut & know that he is competing for the starting job. I don't know if he'll go for that, but what do I know?

Our biggest issue last season was penalties on defense, the turnover battle, & our performance in the redzone. We competed with the best teams in the league. Did not allow any team, including New England to score 40 (though St Louis got close)..... our situation is definitely not as bad as our record indicates.

I agree it would be a mistake to "expect" to win 10 games or better. But it would be just as wrong to "expect" 6 or fewer. We should, imo, expect 8-8 & plan accordingly.

Like the Colts after their 2-14 season & the Chiefs after theirs, we should approach the draft & free agency as if we could win them all.
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Old 01-11-2014   #419
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

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Those teams had almost ZERO talent in the turn around year. The Chiefs, Eagles and the Texans have talent
I actually agree with you on that point. Sort of...

At the most important position on any team, QB, we have a gaping a$$ void. How will O'Brien fill that void?? Draft one of these untested rookies? Go with a vet? Who knows..?? Will either be the right guy?

There are also questions on whether our best RB and our best LB will come back to their previous levels of production. Our secondary is a little suspect too. We haven't seen the J-Jo we got when he first got here since that one year. Will a new defensive staff regenerate him? Will they make K-Jax stop being a penalty magnet? Can they get more out of Mercilus?

There has also been some debate as to how Crennel will make use of J.J. Watt. Will he let him roam up and down the D-line like Wade did or will he try to move him out to OLB as Wade was doing with Mario.

Bottom line for me is that too many unanswered questions remain to go "all in" to predict a complete bounce back season like Bob McNair keeps preaching. Now I wouldn't be surprised to see us go 8-8/9-7 given our schedule. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see 6-10 or 7-9 while the team gels and our new QB gets the new offense down.

Last edited by ObsiWan; 01-11-2014 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014   #420
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Default Re: O'Brien & His Coaching Staffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Uh.... no.

I don't have a problem keeping Matt Schaub, but we'll have to renegotiate his contract, get his cap number. I'll look at the numbers in more detail later, but Schaub would have to be willing to take a $4M cut & know that he is competing for the starting job. I don't know if he'll go for that, but what do I know?

Our biggest issue last season was penalties on defense, the turnover battle, & our performance in the redzone. We competed with the best teams in the league. Did not allow any team, including New England to score 40 (though St Louis got close)..... our situation is definitely not as bad as our record indicates.

I agree it would be a mistake to "expect" to win 10 games or better. But it would be just as wrong to "expect" 6 or fewer. We should, imo, expect 8-8 & plan accordingly.

Like the Colts after their 2-14 season & the Chiefs after theirs, we should approach the draft & free agency as if we could win them all.
LOL... this is the NFL not NCAA, teams do not score into the 40s with regularity (so for STL to come close, speaks volumes)

But hey, if you wanna hang your hat on that, then you go right on ahead there, buddy.
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