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Old 01-10-2014   #81
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

McNair and I see eye to eye on this.. Trade down, get an outstanding
defensive player and get a QB that can do the job..

Clowney + Watt would be scary -- and might help offset starting
a back-to-back knee-surgery Cushing in the middle..
(while also helping out a slowed JJo and KJ at the same time)

The more I see the #'s, I just don't think there is any QB out there
truly franchise changing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mussop View Post
"Maybe we'll trade down and still get a quarterback that can do the job and get an outstanding defensive player," McNair said Friday. "It's an exciting time. Everything's a moving target. Lot of different pieces."

Hmmm sounds like the first pick (if we stay at #1) is defiantly going to be a QB.
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Old 01-10-2014   #82
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
wait till the combine and interviews before labeling this group of QBs not worthy of #1 draft pick or franchise changers.

nobody really knows until they play.

Draft a qb already and stop messing about.
Can't disagree with this.

Also, as much as I love defense, this seems to be a league where you MUST have a good QB. A GREAT QB masks all kinds of problems in other areas. So, if you're in a position to get the QB you want, do it.
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Old 01-10-2014   #83
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

So many of these QB look "good" but not "great". I doubt any of
the big names even throw at the combine (most don't)

I think we can still get one of the top 5 listed QB's later in the
1st round. (while getting another pick for DL or OL)

To me there is so little difference in any of the QB's. There really isn't
a Manning or Luck type out there.

I posted a rotoworld thread earlier (but it was either moved
or deleted) which showed that none of the top-4 QB's were
statistically that much different than the average draftable
QB

-with the exception that Carr was substantially worse than the
other 3


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
wait till the combine and interviews before labeling this group of QBs not worthy of #1 draft pick or franchise changers.

nobody really knows until they play.

Draft a qb already and stop messing about.
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Old 01-10-2014   #84
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
McNair and I see eye to eye on this.. Trade down, get an outstanding
defensive player and get a QB that can do the job..

Clowney + Watt would be scary -- and might help offset starting
a back-to-back knee-surgery Cushing in the middle..
(while also helping out a slowed JJo and KJ at the same time)

The more I see the #'s, I just don't think there is any QB out there
truly franchise changing..
Trading down to get Clowney & a QB later in the draft would be one of the more difficult things to do in this draft. Clowney will more than likely go in the first 5 picks & while any of those teams can sure use a QB.... Clowney & Chris Long wouldn't look bad either. Any of the teams we trade behind could very well use Clowney.

So when we're (at least I) are talking about Clowney plus a QB, we're talking about taking him at 1-1 & getting one latter in the draft, either trading back into the 1st (but chances are someone will draft Bridgewater, Manziel, & Bortles before the late 1st) or using 2-1.
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Old 01-10-2014   #85
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
wait till the combine and interviews before labeling this group of QBs not worthy of #1 draft pick or franchise changers.

nobody really knows until they play.

Draft a qb already and stop messing about.
1st, you're saying not to make up my mind about these QBs yet.

2nd, you tell me you've already made up yours??


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Old 01-10-2014   #86
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambert View Post
That's almost a George Bernard Shaw quote. He was in a carriage in London with a high-society lady. As they passed Soho and saw prostitutes soliciting customers, the woman was digusted and asked George how could these women debase themselves to this level? George asked the woman, "Suppose you had no money and your child was ill with an illness that only an expensive operation could cure. Would you do it?" The woman said, "Well perhaps under those circumstances." George then said, " Well, we already have established what you are, and now are just dickering about the price."
Almost but not quite:


Quote Investigator: The role of the character initiating the proposal in this anecdote has been assigned to George Bernard Shaw, Winston Churchill, Groucho Marx, Mark Twain, W.C. Fields, Bertrand Russell, H.G. Wells, Woodrow Wilson and others. However, the earliest example of this basic story found by QI did not spotlight any of the persons just listed. In addition, the punch line was phrased differently.

In January 1937 the syndicated newspaper columnist O. O. McIntyre printed a version of the anecdote that he says was sent to him as a newspaper clipping. This tale featured a powerful Canadian-British media magnate and politician named Max Aitken who was also referred to as Lord Beaverbrook [MJLB]:

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/

Here are many funny quotes by comedienne W C Fields for those interested.
http://www.mindspring.com/~hsstern/maewest/fields.htm
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Old 01-10-2014   #87
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Trading down to get Clowney & a QB later in the draft would be one of the more difficult things to do in this draft. Clowney will more than likely go in the first 5 picks & while any of those teams can sure use a QB.... Clowney & Chris Long wouldn't look bad either. Any of the teams we trade behind could very well use Clowney.

So when we're (at least I) are talking about Clowney plus a QB, we're talking about taking him at 1-1 & getting one latter in the draft, either trading back into the 1st (but chances are someone will draft Bridgewater, Manziel, & Bortles before the late 1st) or using 2-1.
Trading down usually doesn't involve a big drop. I doubt if we trade back that we'll trade out of the top 5. We just need a couple of the other top-5 teams to fall in love with a particular QB and for one of them to want to trade up to get him.

Of course, if the team in between where we were and where we trade to drafts Clowney, then that plan is blown and we end up with whoever the trade gods force on us.

So it's probably wiser to just pick the guy you want unless you wouldn't mind having any of them.
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Old 01-10-2014   #88
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

I don't think there's any real chance we take Clowney. He's not a Houston Texans-type player as evidenced by his idiocy off the field. Plus, with people questioning his motor on the field and us seeing how a relentless motor matters (Watt, Cushing, etc)....I just don't see it.
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Old 01-10-2014   #89
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Also, as much as I love defense, this seems to be a league where you MUST have a good QB. A GREAT QB masks all kinds of problems in other areas. So, if you're in a position to get the QB you want, do it.
What if they aren't in a position to get a great QB? What if they're in position to get an Alex Smith or Matt Schaub caliber QB at #1? What if TB, Bortles, Manziel, and whoever else end up being the next wave of Locker, Tannehill, Ponder, Gabbert, Freeman, Geno Smith, and Dalton?

Titans took Jake Locker at #8 in 2011, for example. They probably felt like he could be the QB of the future. Think they would redraft that way now? They could have taken the defensive guy at #11 that year. In 2010, the Rams took Sam Bradford #1 overall. This might be our best history lesson, actually. Bradford has been good enough that you can't really call him a bust, but was he worth the #1 pick overall? I'm sure there's someone who was taken shortly thereafter that would have helped more.

I understand the sentiment to grab the next franchise QB. I want that too. But if he isn't there, don't force it. Ending up with a bust wouldn't be the worst result. The worst result would be ending up with the guy that you're always wondering about. Is he good enough? Is it the OL? Is it the coaching? Scheme? Maybe if we get him more weapons? Blah.
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Old 01-10-2014   #90
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

I still see O'Brien making a run to trade for Mallett and possibly bringing in a vet, Cassel, to run his offense and trading back, even out of the top 10, to get more picks....
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Old 01-10-2014   #91
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
What if they aren't in a position to get a great QB? What if they're in position to get an Alex Smith or Matt Schaub caliber QB at #1? What if TB, Bortles, Manziel, and whoever else end up being the next wave of Locker, Tannehill, Ponder, Gabbert, Freeman, Geno Smith, and Dalton?

Titans took Jake Locker at #8 in 2011, for example. They probably felt like he could be the QB of the future. Think they would redraft that way now? They could have taken the defensive guy at #11 that year. In 2010, the Rams took Sam Bradford #1 overall. This might be our best history lesson, actually. Bradford has been good enough that you can't really call him a bust, but was he worth the #1 pick overall? I'm sure there's someone who was taken shortly thereafter that would have helped more.

I understand the sentiment to grab the next franchise QB. I want that too. But if he isn't there, don't force it. Ending up with a bust wouldn't be the worst result. The worst result would be ending up with the guy that you're always wondering about. Is he good enough? Is it the OL? Is it the coaching? Scheme? Maybe if we get him more weapons? Blah.
Didn't we already go through that with Matty Pick 6? Can't say it won't happen again though...
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Old 01-10-2014   #92
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
I still see O'Brien making a run to trade for Mallett and possibly bringing in a vet, Cassel, to run his offense and trading back, even out of the top 10, to get more picks....
I found a few youtube clips of him & checked out some scouting reports. I wouldn't be mad at l if we traded two twos to get him. Likd we did for Schaub. He might not be a franchise guy, but I think he can be an effective starter. I like him as much as any QB in this draft. We're not winning a Super Bowl with Bidgewater, Manziel, or Bortles. & I wouldn't feel comfortable starting any of them on day 1. Not with what I've seen so far.
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Old 01-10-2014   #93
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We're not winning a Super Bowl with Bidgewater, Manziel, or Bortles. & I wouldn't feel comfortable starting any of them on day 1. Not with what I've seen so far.
There is absolutely zero ability to look at any of those guys and say we're not winning a Super Bowl with one. It's a silly assertion in connection with almost any QB.
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Old 01-10-2014   #94
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

How about if we trade a 6th for Brad Smith, do without a QB and run the wildcat all the time?
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Old 01-10-2014   #95
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There is absolutely zero ability to look at any of those guys and say we're not winning a Super Bowl with one. It's a silly assertion in connection with almost any QB.
No way cak, it's an exact science.

That's why Brady was a 6th rounder.
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Old 01-10-2014   #96
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
What if they aren't in a position to get a great QB? What if they're in position to get an Alex Smith or Matt Schaub caliber QB at #1? What if TB, Bortles, Manziel, and whoever else end up being the next wave of Locker, Tannehill, Ponder, Gabbert, Freeman, Geno Smith, and Dalton?

Titans took Jake Locker at #8 in 2011, for example. They probably felt like he could be the QB of the future. Think they would redraft that way now? They could have taken the defensive guy at #11 that year. In 2010, the Rams took Sam Bradford #1 overall. This might be our best history lesson, actually. Bradford has been good enough that you can't really call him a bust, but was he worth the #1 pick overall? I'm sure there's someone who was taken shortly thereafter that would have helped more.

I understand the sentiment to grab the next franchise QB. I want that too. But if he isn't there, don't force it. Ending up with a bust wouldn't be the worst result. The worst result would be ending up with the guy that you're always wondering about. Is he good enough? Is it the OL? Is it the coaching? Scheme? Maybe if we get him more weapons? Blah.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You don't know how any of the players you take are going to work out, even at 1.1. So, you do the best you can then, you prepare the very best way possible and make the decision that you can be happy with at that time. And that means that if you feel the QB you want is there, you take him. Unless you feel he'll still be there later in the draft, then you do something else. And if you don't feel strongly about any of the QB's, or other players for that matter, you do something else, too.

It doesn't matter what we think about these players; it only matters what they do. And a lot of this won't be decided until after the combine. Nobody was taking Tannehill in the top 10 two years ago until the combine.
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Old 01-10-2014   #97
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There is absolutely zero ability to look at any of those guys and say we're not winning a Super Bowl with one. It's a silly assertion in connection with almost any QB.
Too far? Fair enough.
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Old 01-10-2014   #98
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
So many of these QB look "good" but not "great". I doubt any of
the big names even throw at the combine (most don't)

I think we can still get one of the top 5 listed QB's later in the
1st round. (while getting another pick for DL or OL)

To me there is so little difference in any of the QB's. There really isn't
a Manning or Luck type out there.

I posted a rotoworld thread earlier (but it was either moved
or deleted) which showed that none of the top-4 QB's were
statistically that much different than the average draftable
QB

-with the exception that Carr was substantially worse than the
other 3
There is one thing that makes Bridgewater special in my opinion - and that`s his football IQ. It was called savant-like before, and it sounds a lot like Manning. Bridgewater is elite at reading defenses presnap, rarely makes mistakes with the ball and usually hits the right guy. He is constantly in the film room or studying gameplans.

I feel like a lot of QBs fail despite having all the physical tools because either the game is too fast for them (with too many things going on) or they lack motivation to put in all the work needed. Both of these things should be no problem with Bridgewater.
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Old 01-20-2014   #99
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

i would match whatever the rams offer or even less if the browns wanted to move up. there is nothing greater in the NFL offseason than acquiring more draft picks. one team follows through with that philosophy, and they have more superbowl rings/appearances than anyone since the 90's. #1's bust as often as anyone else, and the only way to stack the odds in your favor is to make more picks.
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Old 01-20-2014   #100
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Default Re: Bob McNair open to trading No. 1 pick

In my opinion, if you have the three quarterbacks ranked nearly the same..Trade down to four, pick between remaining, if none remaining, Clowney or another tradeback.

If you're having trouble waiting for the draft, offering free time machine rides..
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