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Old 01-04-2014   #261
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Where in that article do you get the Texans haven't talked to him?
You're right... I read into it.
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Old 01-06-2014   #262
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
That ship has sailed. Clowney does not fit anywhere in Romeo's defense.
You dont think he would try and fit him in at 3-4 DE ala Tyson Jackson or Ropati Pitoitua?
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Old 01-06-2014   #263
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
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Old 01-06-2014   #264
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.

I could see a scenario where the Texans take Clowney, and a NT, or guard, and still grab a QB like Tajh Boyd in the 3rd. This would allow them to sign a free agent QB like McCown or whomever and let Tajh learn for a year.
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Old 01-06-2014   #265
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.

I could see a scenario where the Texans take Clowney, and a NT, or guard, and still grab a QB like Tajh Boyd in the 3rd. This would allow them to sign a free agent QB like McCown or whomever and let Tajh learn for a year.
It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.

Last edited by Mr teX; 01-06-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 01-06-2014   #266
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
Actually, that's a good argument to take Clowney in the first & Mettenberger or Murray (or even someone more raw) in the second.
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Old 01-06-2014   #267
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.
I think we are going in a circle here. I think we can both agree that QB is the most important position. And I also think we can agree that teams will reach for a QB. But we cannot just take a QB for the sake of taking a QB if the talent isnt there.
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Old 01-06-2014   #268
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I wish the draft would be here already. This board has become the cat that keeps chasing its own tail.
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Old 01-06-2014   #269
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Actually, that's a good argument to take Clowney in the first & Mettenberger or Murray (or even someone more raw) in the second.
No it isn't.

Let's take a look at these QBs who aren't 1st rounders people point to.

Kaepernick drafted behind a 1st overall having a career year.
Wilson drafted to backup a highly paid anticipated starter with the previous year's starter still on the roster.
Brady drafted as tail end backup to a 1st overall QB.

These guys were lucky strikes on draft picks for developmental QBs. They were not drafted to be the starters for QBless teams.
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Old 01-06-2014   #270
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.
How many of those guys were the 1st QB taken? How often is it that the first QB taken busts? Usually, teams are taking the best QB in the draft and they hit the pick. Then other teams scramble to get the remaining QB's, reach, and a lot of guys bust.

In this draft, the Texans get to choose which QB they want. Other teams do not necessarily get this option. That improves the odds of the Texans hitting on the pick because they get their choice instead of having to wait and take whoever is still on the board.

This draft actually reminds me a lot of 2011. You had 3 guys who not everyone was sold on (Newton, Locker, Gabbert) and another guy who was borderline 1st (Ponder). Most people pegged Newton as the top QB, but didn't think he was the top player in the draft and not worthy of #1. Most everyone thought that was Von Miller, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, or A.J. Green.

Now Bridgewater is the guy this year that most people seem to have pegged as the top QB. Nobody will be shocked if Bridgewater goes top 5 (same with Newton). Manziel, Bortles, and Carr are ranked all over the map (same with Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder). They are better comparisons to Ponder, Locker, and Gabbert than Bridgewater is. His situation is more comparable to Newton.
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Old 01-06-2014   #271
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
I think we are going in a circle here. I think we can both agree that QB is the most important position. And I also think we can agree that teams will reach for a QB. But we cannot just take a QB for the sake of taking a QB if the talent isnt there.
You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering. Clowney isn't the obvious #1 overall anymore than Bridgewater imo.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say Bridgewater isn't worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 3 slots, you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
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Old 01-06-2014   #272
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say he's not worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 2 you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
Because everyone is an armchair gm and think that the Texans can trade back and get like a thousand future draft picks and then get the next Tom Brady in the 3rd round. Not in the 6th because that would be too weird that the two of the top 5 qbs in history were drafted in the 6th round. Oh and also, they would get all these picks by trading it to a team who will fall in love with Bridgewater, the player they say is not worth a first overall pick.
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Old 01-06-2014   #273
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
You dont think he would try and fit him in at 3-4 DE ala Tyson Jackson or Ropati Pitoitua?
I don't think Clowney fits anywhere in a 34 unless it was a DE in a one gap system.
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Old 01-06-2014   #274
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering. Clowney isn't the obvious #1 overall anymore than Bridgewater imo.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say Bridgewater isn't worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 3 slots, you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
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I don't think Clowney fits anywhere in a 34 unless it was a DE in a one gap system.
Alright then. You dont have to sell me. Lock it up. Bridgewater is coming to Houston!

I really dont think we are foolin anyone here.

We have the #1 pick.
Unless we get a similar offer that the Rams got for RG3 (which wont happen) we are going to pick at 1.1.
We need a franchise QB.
Alot of people including myself consider Teddy B. to potentially be one.
He doesnt wear #8.

No need for games this year. Lets just get this done so people can order their #5 Bridgewater jerseys. Oh and what do you know. #5 is available on the Texans.
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Old 01-06-2014   #275
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.
This kind of thinking is what got the Texans HWNSNBM. Meanwhile Peppers was playing in NFC championship/SB's with Jake Delhomme as his QB.
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Old 01-06-2014   #276
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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E

Because everyone is an armchair gm and think that the Texans can trade back and get like a thousand future draft picks and then get the next Tom Brady in the 3rd round. Not in the 6th because that would be too weird that the two of the top 5 qbs in history were drafted in the 6th round. Oh and also, they would get all these picks by trading it to a team who will fall in love with Bridgewater, the player they say is not worth a first overall pick.
Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.
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Old 01-06-2014   #277
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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This kind of thinking is what got the Texans HWNSNBM. Meanwhile Peppers was playing in NFC championship/SB's with Jake Delhomme as his QB.
What a useless and ridiculous argument.
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Old 01-06-2014   #278
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.
You still amuse me comparing TB to Dalton. In fact, with the 8 qbs left, who has elite arm talent? 2, CK and Newton,that's it. Of all the qb in the playoffs, 12 teams, only 2 were drafted had elite arm talent. You don't need elite arm talent to be a great qb. In fact, very few qbs who can throw the ball through a car wash have been sb winning qbs. If you just check the last 10 yrs, Ben and Flacco are the only 2. Coming in, you want a guy with a nfl which TB has. As he gets older and stronger,his arm will get better. He can make every throw inside and outside the numbers now. Can he drift,fade,and throw the ball 70 yds like ben or flacco? No, but that's never been a requirement to being great either.
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Old 01-06-2014   #279
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

https://twitter.com/gil_brandt/statu...98814864388096

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O'Brien likes big QBs. I could see #Texans trying to trade w #Patriots for Ryan Mallett, going diff direction in draft
Some sort of package for Mallett? Hmmm...maybe Clowney at 1-1 isn't so far fetched?
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Old 01-06-2014   #280
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.

Yeah and how'd that elite arm strength and size help guys like David Klingler, JP Losman, Kerry Collins and Jamarcus Russell?

You have some of the most ridiculous takes i've ever seen. Dalton and TB are no where close to the same prospect coming out.
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