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Old 01-02-2014   #1201
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
is it just me or his manziel the anti-luck. imagine those two going up against it twice a year i think it would become quite a rivalry for many years
Because Manziel makes his own luck.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1202
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Default Re: Manziel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI8TrW7vJC4

Is it just me or was the guy open the entire time? His antics were unnecessary.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1203
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI8TrW7vJC4

Is it just me or was the guy open the entire time? His antics were unnecessary.
What you fail to see is how bad his offensive line and receivers performed. It's incredible that he's doing this singlehandedly.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1204
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Default Re: Manziel

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What you fail to see is how bad his offensive line and receivers performed. It's incredible that he's doing this singlehandedly.
I do fail to see that. On that play, his line was holding up pretty well. He could've just stepped up, away from the "pressure" from the DE and didn't have to jump into his own lineman. I also put quotes around pressure because his RT was doing his job and holding his man. There was no pressure until he jumped into his own blocker.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1205
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
I do fail to see that. On that play, his line was holding up pretty well. He could've just stepped up, away from the "pressure" from the DE and didn't have to jump into his own lineman. I also put quotes around pressure because his RT was doing his job and holding his man. There was no pressure until he jumped into his own blocker.
I forget to use the sarcasm tag sometimes.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1206
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Default Re: Manziel

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I forget to use the sarcasm tag sometimes.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1207
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
Umm if those three and Johnny all go in the first that would be a record for first round picks from one school on offense.
First off let's leave Manziel out of this since the discussion is about the talent AROUND Manziel. Now what's left? Mathews first round talent. Evans great college WR. One other OL that could go high in next years draft. If he comes out this year he's probably a third round or later grade. That's it! Three draftable players. Only one skill position player out of that group.

Stop acting like he has this AWSOME supporting cast. He doesn't.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1208
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Manziel is changing my mind a little bit. I still don't want to draft him, but not for the same reasons.

His skill set is exciting as hell. But it's also not sustainable at the NFL level. It just isn't. The #1 reason I don't want him on the Texans is because he will have to change his style of play to adjust to the pro level. And that scares me. I don't like evaluating him as an elite prospect based on skills that will have to be altered for him to succeed long term in the NFL.

There is now no doubt in my mind that Manziel could be a star in the NFL for three or four years before he gets worn down and is forced to alter his style of play. But is that small window worth the #1 pick?

I would just prefer that someone else take the risk. No QB has ever been successful in the NFL long term by playing the way he does. He's too reliant on his legs. He can either play that way and be great for a short time or he can change it and risk losing what makes him special.

I'm not saying he can't be a successful NFL QB. I'm just saying that he needs a ton of work and I would rather another franchise take the risk.
+1

There is no doubt that Manziel is a helluva college football player. I just feel uneasy about his style (havoc?) working well in the NFL. I am not saying I would not take him, just that I would feel more comfortable with a more traditional talent.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1209
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
fixed

I'm sorry, regardless of what I think of his ability. I can't take a grown man who calls himself "Johnny" seriously. There's a time in point where Timmy needs to become Tim, Teddy needs to become Ted, and Johnny needs to become John.

It may sound silly, but let's say we do draft him and he is a great success and has a long career... when he's pushing 40 are we still going to call him Johnny, or "Johnny football"?
People didn't ever stop calling this QB Joe Willie Namath. It faded over time but it never went away.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1210
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Default Re: Manziel

Another year, another discussion about QBs and another year of TexansTalk message board slap fights and hurt feelings.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1211
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Default Re: Manziel

I really wanted to watch the A&M/Duke game, but my Uverse DVR decided to wipe itself between the evening of the 31st and around 2pm on the 1st. Sooooooo I'm waiting for it to be uploaded to TYT
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Old 01-02-2014   #1212
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
+1

There is no doubt that Manziel is a helluva college football player. I just feel uneasy about his style (havoc?) working well in the NFL. I am not saying I would not take him, just that I would feel more comfortable with a more traditional talent.
I'm not worried about his style too much. I think that can be coached down enough. IMO People are under estimating his pocket ability because he makes such big plays outside the pocket. And too many people want to label him a running QB in a negative way. He is top 4 in just about every passing category playing in a tough conference.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1213
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Default Re: Manziel

Manziel would be smart to enter the draft as a slot receiver. He is a running QB just like Mike Vick and Vick is bigger and faster and tougher. Those NFL linebackers had no problem getting the big hard shots on Vick and knocking him out game after game so what do you think will happen with Manziel? Johhny Football is a great college player but that will stop in the NFL.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1214
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
First off let's leave Manziel out of this since the discussion is about the talent AROUND Manziel. Now what's left? Mathews first round talent. Evans great college WR. One other OL that could go high in next years draft. If he comes out this year he's probably a third round or later grade. That's it! Three draftable players. Only one skill position player out of that group.

Stop acting like he has this AWSOME supporting cast. He doesn't.
Do you think that every player in college is drafted or something? Three or four players with first round talent on an offense is OUTSTANDING. Since A&M is so terrible other than Johnny, what team's offense would you surround him with instead? Since Matthews is soooo overrated and his line is a sieve and he's only got one receiving option there must be like a dozen teams that are better right?

Who are they?

Quick cheat sheet for ya:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...m/_/stat/total
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Old 01-02-2014   #1215
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI8TrW7vJC4

Is it just me or was the guy open the entire time? His antics were unnecessary.
Not to mention how carelessly he holds the ball when he's ping ponging around in the backfield. A well timed slap by a better defensive player and that's a 90 yard fumble return TD for the defense
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Old 01-02-2014   #1216
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I'm not worried about his style too much. I think that can be coached down enough. IMO People are under estimating his pocket ability because he makes such big plays outside the pocket. And too many people want to label him a running QB in a negative way. He is top 4 in just about every passing category playing in a tough conference.
Harrell/Simmons/Cumbie/Kingsbury topped tons of passing categories as well. So did Florence/Petty. The offense gives you that ability. There are some subtle differences between the A&M/Baylor/Tech offenses, but when you drop back to pass 40-50 times every game, you're going to lead the country in plenty of passing categories.

And coaching down his most effective quality is not something I want to hear when drafting a QB. He has improved his pocket passing, but he still bails the pocket early and puts his blockers in tough spots. How many times does he have a clean pocket and he bails out, runs around, and then puts it up to a WR. That just doesn't work in the NFL where the defensive players are just as talented and athletic as you and your teammates.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1217
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Not to mention how carelessly he holds the ball when he's ping ponging around in the backfield. A well timed slap by a better defensive player and that's a 90 yard fumble return TD for the defense
Right. He keeps acting like Favre or Romo back there.
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Old 01-02-2014   #1218
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Default Re: Manziel

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Right. He keeps acting like Favre or Romo back there.
We can't have any of that! Banish this egotistical bastage to the CFL along with his daddy Doug Flutie... they like short QB's there!
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Old 01-02-2014   #1219
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Vince Young was the most efficient passer in college football, was a much better scrambler/runner



Can you explain what you mean by this?


Most efficient passer, well what do you mean by this?

VY 444/718 61.8% 8.4 ypa 6040 yards 44 TDs 28 INTS rating 144.9
JM 595/863 68.9% 9.1 ypa 7820 yards 63 tds 22 ints rating 164.1

Better runner, scrambler? What do you mean by that?

VY 457 attempts 3127 yards 6.8 ypa 37 tds
JM 345 attempts 2169 yards 6.3 ypa 30 tds
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Old 01-02-2014   #1220
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Harrell/Simmons/Cumbie/Kingsbury topped tons of passing categories as well. So did Florence/Petty. The offense gives you that ability. There are some subtle differences between the A&M/Baylor/Tech offenses, but when you drop back to pass 40-50 times every game, you're going to lead the country in plenty of passing categories.

And coaching down his most effective quality is not something I want to hear when drafting a QB. He has improved his pocket passing, but he still bails the pocket early and puts his blockers in tough spots. How many times does he have a clean pocket and he bails out, runs around, and then puts it up to a WR. That just doesn't work in the NFL where the defensive players are just as talented and athletic as you and your teammates.
This X 100. The bolded is whyy he is who he is..if you coach him not to do that, you're not gonna get the guy you saw in college. Cue the sly and family stone song... "The same things that make you laugh, make you cry......" In his case, the same things that folks love about him in college now....the off schedule play making & unwillingness to give up on a play... will make you cry in the NFL when he goes to the next level b/c they'll more often than not lead to something negative....injury, sack fumble, ints..

Someone pointed it out, but that stuff he did in the play above was completely unnecessary. The guy he wound up throwing it to was open the whole time. Another thing is Evans was open coming across the middle (NFL open anyway) & he came off him to try and run....
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