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Old 01-01-2014   #521
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post

JMO, as alway, but I am a BPA guy.
Even if Clowney, Barr, and Matthews were good picks, I still don't see how anyone of them would greatly improve the Texans. No pick is certain, but if Bridgewater was anything near as good as advertised people would say how lucky we were to lose that bad in 2013. That right there is worth the gamble to me.
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Old 01-01-2014   #522
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I think there are better prospects at their respective positions than Bridgewater. Even if I thought Bridgewater was the best QB prospect in this draft, I don't think he's a better QB prospect than Barr is a pass rush OLB prospect, for example. I don't think he's a better QB prospect than Matthews is a tackle prospect, for example.
I can respect this reasoning.

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So really, it boils down to two types of people, to me - those who think he is a better QB prospect than those guys are prospects at their positions, and those who think Bridgewater has to be the pick just because he's the best QB and the Texans need a QB.
I reject this as well, as it almost always leads to exactly what you describe below.

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Personally, I absolutely reject the latter argument. If someone thinks that Bridgewater is the #1 prospect in the draft irrespective of position, we can have that debate, and I'm open to hearing it. But for people who are hung up on the position, I just think that's a way to set your franchise back 4 years. I still am haunted by David Carr, sorry. The worst thing that can happen is you draft a guy like David Carr or Alex Smith and spend years trying to figure out how much is him, how much is coaching, how much is the OL, how much is scheme, etc. It's better to get JaMarcus Russell. Then at least you know to cut your losses and move on. Of course, it's best to get a franchise guy.

JMO, as alway, but I am a BPA guy.
I understand the argument that you like a different player more. The one thing I just haven't been able to process is the people who are so critical of Bridgewater but never give any indication as to why. It's basically just that he isn't worth the #1 pick, because I said so.
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Old 01-01-2014   #523
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Even if Clowney, Barr, and Matthews were good picks, I still don't see how anyone of them would greatly improve the Texans.
If you don't see how better protection for your QB or worse protection for the opponent's QB would greatly improve the team, I'm not sure there's much I can say to you. I understand the desire to gamble, though.
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Old 01-01-2014   #524
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I like Bridgewater at #1. Y'all know that. I've said why I like him.

Can someone who disagrees please just tell me what it is that they don't like besides that they just don't think he is worth the top pick? Please? That's the only thing I ever see. What is it that you see that makes you think that?

We all have differing opinions from time to time. There are a lot of posters on here who have opinions that I respect, even when we disagree. I just wish somebody would give me something beyond "he just isn't worth the top pick" or "he's the third best QB". Why is he the third best? Who is better and why?

This thread has just become pro Bridgewater folks and anti Bridgewater folks throwing rocks at each other.
I think Clowney is a Peppers type franchise player. (the only one in this draft.) I dont see much if any difference between TB/Manziel/Bortles/Mettenberger/MCarron etc... certainly not worth #1.

Tell me the difference between these QB's and why Bridgewater is 1-1 and McCarron for example is a 2nd/3rd rd pick?
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Old 01-01-2014   #525
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I understand the argument that you like a different player more. The one thing I just haven't been able to process is the people who are so critical of Bridgewater but never give any indication as to why. It's basically just that he isn't worth the #1 pick, because I said so.
I have reservations about Bridgewater because of a few games this year. I do think he's a first rounder. I like a lot about him. I just happen to think other guys in the draft are better prospects at their respective positions. If I'm being totally honest, the guy I think I really want is Nix. A badass NT would have the sort of impact on the defensive side of the ball that a franchise QB would have on the offensive side, IMO. It would free up Cushing to make plays, make it much more difficult for teams to deal with Watt, and make the rest of the team's pass rushers actually show up on occasion. But no one pegs Nix as a Top-5 pick. I get that. I will say that no one pegged Watt as a top-5 pick either, though.
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Old 01-01-2014   #526
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Film Room: Teddy Bridgewater primed to be next great NFL QB
By Bucky Brooks NFL.com

Anybody pay attention to the last line: "... I believe he should be the crown jewel of the 2014 quarterback class -- and Johnny Manziel is the only other quarterback capable of challenging his spot at the top."
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Old 01-01-2014   #527
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I think Clowney is a Peppers type franchise player. (the only one in this draft.) I dont see much if any difference between TB/Manziel/Bortles/Mettenberger/MCarron etc... certainly not worth #1.
Fair enough. Yet I have seen you say that you think Bortles is the best QB. What makes him so?

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Tell me the difference between these QB's and why Bridgewater is 1-1 and McCarron for example is a 2nd/3rd rd pick?
I have actually gone into specific detail into the differences between Bridgewater/Manziel and Bridgewater/McCarron previously and don't feel like typing it up again. I'm sure the posts are still floating around here somewhere.

I can go into detail with all of them if you are truly interested and not just trying to prove a point by reversing my argument.
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Old 01-01-2014   #528
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
If you don't see how better protection for your QB or worse protection for the opponent's QB would greatly improve the team, I'm not sure there's much I can say to you. I understand the desire to gamble, though.
If I put armed guards outside of a box containing a pile of ******, That pile of ****** is going to be safe. But at the end of the day, why am I spending the money on armed guards to protect that pile?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I like Bridgewater at #1. Y'all know that. I've said why I like him.

Can someone who disagrees please just tell me what it is that they don't like besides that they just don't think he is worth the top pick? Please? That's the only thing I ever see. What is it that you see that makes you think that?

We all have differing opinions from time to time. There are a lot of posters on here who have opinions that I respect, even when we disagree. I just wish somebody would give me something beyond "he just isn't worth the top pick" or "he's the third best QB". Why is he the third best? Who is better and why?

This thread has just become pro Bridgewater folks and anti Bridgewater folks throwing rocks at each other.
Agree, it's getting petty. I think it's really funny though. These Rico and E fights are hilarious. I personally feel that most of the hate comes from A&M AKA Manziel fans. They know in their heart of hearts that Johny will be the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL the same way UT fans felt about Vince Young. But since John Football isn't being mentioned as the top QB they go out of their way to discredit all the other competition.

Just my 2 cents from seeing EVERYONE that is destroying TB praising the Shoot out of John F in the Manziel thread.

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I think there are better prospects at their respective positions than Bridgewater. Even if I thought Bridgewater was the best QB prospect in this draft, I don't think he's a better QB prospect than Barr is a pass rush OLB prospect, for example. I don't think he's a better QB prospect than Matthews is a tackle prospect, for example.

JMO, as alway, but I am a BPA guy.
I hear you and this is what I say to that. The best RT in the draft will add ZERO W's in the W/L column. You can't keep sinking high draft picks into the OLB position EVERY year. I don't want Clowney because I can't picture a scenario where he and Watt are both Texans in 5 years, but he's the ONLY guy I understand us taking if we don't take who I want.

The most glaring hole on this Texans team is what the #1 pick has the perfect ability to mend. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. And TB happens to be the best one IMO.
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Old 01-01-2014   #529
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I have reservations about Bridgewater because of a few games this year. I do think he's a first rounder. I like a lot about him. I just happen to think other guys in the draft are better prospects at their respective positions. If I'm being totally honest, the guy I think I really want is Nix. A badass NT would have the sort of impact on the defensive side of the ball that a franchise QB would have on the offensive side, IMO. It would free up Cushing to make plays, make it much more difficult for teams to deal with Watt, and make the rest of the team's pass rushers actually show up on occasion. But no one pegs Nix as a Top-5 pick. I get that. I will say that no one pegged Watt as a top-5 pick either, though.
As you know I have pushed Nix for two years but his recent surgery and possible future problems with all that weight on his wheels made me move him from my board. Another hesitation I've had on posting new mock is O'brien's unknown defensive choice. If we move from 3-4 I want to change my 4th round pick from a nose and probably my ILB choice from Smallwood to maybe a Skov type.
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Old 01-01-2014   #530
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
If you don't see how better protection for your QB or worse protection for the opponent's QB would greatly improve the team, I'm not sure there's much I can say to you. I understand the desire to gamble, though.
Kansas DL, if everyone is healthy, is pretty friggin stacked. You could even say their entire defense is great. You could also say their OL is at least decent. They have an excellent run game, but does anyone rage about the Chiefs? Nope.
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Old 01-01-2014   #531
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I have reservations about Bridgewater because of a few games this year. I do think he's a first rounder. I like a lot about him. I just happen to think other guys in the draft are better prospects at their respective positions. If I'm being totally honest, the guy I think I really want is Nix. A badass NT would have the sort of impact on the defensive side of the ball that a franchise QB would have on the offensive side, IMO. It would free up Cushing to make plays, make it much more difficult for teams to deal with Watt, and make the rest of the team's pass rushers actually show up on occasion. But no one pegs Nix as a Top-5 pick. I get that. I will say that no one pegged Watt as a top-5 pick either, though.
Thank you for this response. This is the type of discussion I was looking for. If we're going to argue and fight like children around here we can at least do it intelligently.

P.S. I will toot my own horn here since I got dogged in the QB thread that I started, but I was quite clear here that Watt was a top five talent. I never would have predicted he would be this good, but I was very high on him. Loved it when we drafted him.
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Old 01-01-2014   #532
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
If I put armed guards outside of a box containing a pile of ******, That pile of ****** is going to be safe. But at the end of the day, why am I spending the money on armed guards to protect that pile?



Agree, it's getting petty. I think it's really funny though. These Rico and E fights are hilarious. I personally feel that most of the hate comes from A&M AKA Manziel fans. They know in their heart of hearts that Johny will be the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL the same way UT fans felt about Vince Young. But since John Football isn't being mentioned as the top QB they go out of their way to discredit all the other competition.

Just my 2 cents from seeing EVERYONE that is destroying TB praising the Shoot out of John F in the Manziel thread.



I hear you and this is what I say to that. The best RT in the draft will add ZERO W's in the W/L column. You can't keep sinking high draft picks into the OLB position EVERY year. I don't want Clowney because I can't picture a scenario where he and Watt are both Texans in 5 years, but he's the ONLY guy I understand us taking if we don't take who I want.

The most glaring hole on this Texans team is what the #1 pick has the perfect ability to mend. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. And TB happens to be the best one IMO.
"The best RT in the draft will add ZERO W's in the W/L column. "

What you seem to be ignoring with above quote is your line keeps the guy that does put Ws in column. If you respond with "get a RT later" then say whom and why. I'm not saying it cannot be done and on my current board have one in third but I can say why.
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Old 01-01-2014   #533
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Fair enough. Yet I have seen you say that you think Bortles is the best QB. What makes him so?



I have actually gone into specific detail into the differences between Bridgewater/Manziel and Bridgewater/McCarron previously and don't feel like typing it up again. I'm sure the posts are still floating around here somewhere.

I can go into detail with all of them if you are truly interested and not just trying to prove a point by reversing my argument.
Bortles has a stronger arm, has the same clutch gene as TB, is more mobile, both of them appear to be able to read defenses and are accurate. Like I said above they are both 1st rd picks just not 1-1's.

I wasn't being a jackass I truly want to see your evals and where our differences may lie. It will help with the back and forth discussion. If you dont want to do all of that typing that's understanable.
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Old 01-01-2014   #534
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Bortles has a stronger arm, has the same clutch gene as TB, is more mobile, both of them appear to be able to read defenses and are accurate. Like I said above they are both 1st rd picks just not 1-1's.

I wasn't being a jackass I truly want to see your evals and where our differences may lie. It will help with the back and forth discussion. If you dont want to do all of that typing that's understanable.
IMO Bortles doesn't read and adjust as much as Teddy B. Ted will get to his 4th and 5th progression routinely, he completed passes to like 10 different receivers the other night. Bortles has a cannon, but I'm looking forward to watching him tonight to see how he surveys the field.
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Old 01-01-2014   #535
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Just for those who want it here is an updated report from Bucky Brooks on Bridgewater published earlier today (there was a link to one he wrote following his game against Rutgers last year and someone else posted a snippet from this article).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...reat-qb-in-nfl

Personally I like Teddy at 1-1 but I am also intrigued with Bortles and Manziel. Heck, if our guys come to the conclusion that they don't like any of the QBs, which I don't believe will be the case, I love me some Clowney too. Going to be a fun draft season, may the best man win!
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Old 01-01-2014   #536
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
"The best RT in the draft will add ZERO W's in the W/L column. "

What you seem to be ignoring with above quote is your line keeps the guy that does put Ws in column. If you respond with "get a RT later" then say whom and why. I'm not saying it cannot be done and on my current board have one in third but I can say why.
lol, thanks for telling me what to do and how to do it.

If I feel like talking about a RT in depth I will do it in a thread that exists that no one cares about. I said I don't want Mathews, that's all I owe this thread.

Real quick though... Derek Newton is arguably the worst RT in the NFL, we have 2 guys currently on the IR that will likely be taking his spot already. Derek Newton was also a 7th round pick. If you draft any RT that has a 4th round grade in the 5th round (happens every draft) I'd be willing to bet you have a dramatic improvement over Newton if you don't want to use one of our guys currently on IR. Now you have 3 guys that can fight over his job and didn't waste our most valuable in pick years.
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Old 01-01-2014   #537
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Just for those who want it here is an updated report from Bucky Brooks on Bridgewater published earlier today (there was a link to one he wrote following his game against Rutgers last year and someone else posted a snippet from this article).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...reat-qb-in-nfl

Personally I like Teddy at 1-1 but I am also intrigued with Bortles and Manziel. Heck, if our guys come to the conclusion that they don't like any of the QBs, which I don't believe will be the case, I love me some Clowney too. Going to be a fun draft season, may the best man win!
I'm in the same sort of boat.

There's no draft pick that's going to make everyone happy. And if it turns out good, it was probably because BOB made the pick and if it turns out bad (or goes a different way than people want), then Smith is going to get blamed. At least, that's what's probably going to happen on this board.

But it's like the selection of the coach, there was no single guy everyone was going to love. I like that we got BOB but he does have warts and he's going to have to prove himself.

I'm going to trust him (and the rest of the FO) to make the right choice here. I don't care if it's Bortles or Bridgewater or Manziel or Matthews or Clowney or Barr or whoever explodes at the combine and the Senior Bowl or whatever. I don't care... as long as they make the right choice and the guy ends up being great.

I'm not going to get married to any particular player. (At least, I'm saying that now. That might change as we get closer to the draft.)

With what I've seen from BOB's QB speech, I'm not going to worry if the guy is short or if his arm isn't outrageously strong. He wants someone who's accurate and who's smart and makes correct decisions quickly. At this point, I don't know who that guy is. It MIGHT be TB... it might be someone else.
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Old 01-01-2014   #538
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by stingray View Post
I never said that the Texans made the wrong choice in draft pick. Pay attention, will you. I am comparing mario to clowney. And just because the Texans picked mario over vince and reggie, it shouldnt influence them in one bit not to take bridgewster over clowney.
You said you don't want to repeat the Mario thing.... as if the Mario thing was a bad pick. He was still one of the best players to come out of that draft & our defense more or less for at least 4 of the years he was here.

Mario was a good player, a damn good player & I wouldn't have a problem "going through that again"

If Clowney plays as well as Mario did, & Bridgewater plays as well as Stafford, we really can't go wrong can we?
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Old 01-01-2014   #539
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
You said you don't want to repeat the Mario thing.... as if the Mario thing was a bad pick. He was still one of the best players to come out of that draft & our defense more or less for at least 4 of the years he was here.

Mario was a good player, a damn good player & I wouldn't have a problem "going through that again"

If Clowney plays as well as Mario did, & Bridgewater plays as well as Stafford, we really can't go wrong can we?
Mario got paid well after becoming a FA . I'm thinking they don't hand 100 million to bust .
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Old 01-01-2014   #540
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
If I put armed guards outside of a box containing a pile of ******, That pile of ****** is going to be safe. But at the end of the day, why am I spending the money on armed guards to protect that pile?

...

I hear you and this is what I say to that. The best RT in the draft will add ZERO W's in the W/L column. You can't keep sinking high draft picks into the OLB position EVERY year. I don't want Clowney because I can't picture a scenario where he and Watt are both Texans in 5 years, but he's the ONLY guy I understand us taking if we don't take who I want.

The most glaring hole on this Texans team is what the #1 pick has the perfect ability to mend. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. And TB happens to be the best one IMO.
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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Kansas DL, if everyone is healthy, is pretty friggin stacked. You could even say their entire defense is great. You could also say their OL is at least decent. They have an excellent run game, but does anyone rage about the Chiefs? Nope.
Actually, everyone believes the Chiefs are pretty much a QB away from being serious Super Bowl contenders. That illustrates the two philosophies - take a QB when the team around him is not good, or take one after you've built a core to support him and speed his development. Obviously, there are degrees in the middle. I am on board with taking a QB if he's the BPA available (or a virtual tie with the BPA). If the team around him sucks, he's not going to be successful. Similarly, if the team is great and the QB sucks, the team is going nowhere. I know people like to say the Texans are a QB away from being good, but I don't buy it. They have maybe 4 players on defense that are good, and one of them can't stay on the field. They have maybe four good players on offense, one of whom didn't stay on the field this year.

That's not to say they can't build both in this draft. I don't think the OL is that far away, if they completely ditch Newton, Wade Smith, and don't hand a job to Ben Jones.

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
As you know I have pushed Nix for two years but his recent surgery and possible future problems with all that weight on his wheels made me move him from my board. Another hesitation I've had on posting new mock is O'brien's unknown defensive choice. If we move from 3-4 I want to change my 4th round pick from a nose and probably my ILB choice from Smallwood to maybe a Skov type.
Yeah, the Nix mention is assuming the Texans stay with a 3-4. I just really want that badass NT in the middle to do to opponents' interior line what badass NTs do to our interior line.
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