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Old 12-29-2013   #361
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
It looked good tonight, outside of some correctable mistakes. I'll be interested to see how he interviews as I think the mental strength of a quarterback comes first.

Having said that, comparing Bridgewater to Wilson is just odd. They are not very much alike at all.
How so?
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Old 12-29-2013   #362
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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How so?
From a body type standpoint, Wilson is shorter and more compact, even when in college. Bridgewater is taller, much skinnier. Wilson creates a lot more plays with his legs and he'll shovel pass it out there, you don't really see Bridgewater do that a whole lot. They are both non-gunslingers though, so they do have that in common.
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Old 12-29-2013   #363
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
From a body type standpoint, Wilson is shorter and more compact, even when in college. Bridgewater is taller, much skinnier. Wilson creates a lot more plays with his legs and he'll shovel pass it out there, you don't really see Bridgewater do that a whole lot. They are both non-gunslingers though, so they do have that in common.
My mistake. I read that as you saying they were comparable. Apparently I need coffee before I post on here. :P
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Old 12-29-2013   #364
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
From a body type standpoint, Wilson is shorter and more compact, even when in college. Bridgewater is taller, much skinnier. Wilson creates a lot more plays with his legs and he'll shovel pass it out there, you don't really see Bridgewater do that a whole lot. They are both non-gunslingers though, so they do have that in common.
Wilson would be like Boyd or Murray .
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Old 12-29-2013   #365
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

So the Texans shouldnt touch Teddy B because he doesnt grade out to Luck,Griffin,Manning??? How crazy is that. I guess the Texans should just suck next year too just to have a chance at Winston because he's head and shoulders better than Bridgewater right? Crazy.

Whats the difference between a prospect rated A+ and A- ?? Personal Opinion.

Teddy B is gonna look great in that deep steel blue.
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Old 12-29-2013   #366
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

The only legitimate concern I have seen with Bridgewater is his size.

I think he is extremely similar to Aaron Rodgers. Put 15 pounds on him and they might be the same guy.

Everything is there. Really don't know what else you guys want.
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Old 12-29-2013   #367
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
The only legitimate concern I have seen with Bridgewater is his size.

I think he is extremely similar to Aaron Rodgers. Put 15 pounds on him and they might be the same guy.

Everything is there. Really don't know what else you guys want.
Aaron Rodgers? I'm thinking more like Russell Wilson: Mobility + pocket presence seems similar to Wilson.
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Old 12-29-2013   #368
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
Aaron Rodgers? I'm thinking more like Russell Wilson: Mobility + pocket presence seems similar to Wilson.
He's not as athletic as Wilson but that's a fine comparison. Aaron Rodgers is a very mobile guy. I think they're very similar.
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Old 12-29-2013   #369
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
Aaron Rodgers? I'm thinking more like Russell Wilson: Mobility + pocket presence seems similar to Wilson.
That link posted above makes a great case for a comparison to Rodgers.....
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Old 12-29-2013   #370
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
So the Texans shouldnt touch Teddy B because he doesnt grade out to Luck,Griffin,Manning??? How crazy is that. I guess the Texans should just suck next year too just to have a chance at Winston because he's head and shoulders better than Bridgewater right? Crazy.

Whats the difference between a prospect rated A+ and A- ?? Personal Opinion.

Teddy B is gonna look great in that deep steel blue.
I'm not fully determined that Bridgewater is the guy, yet. Based on what I have seen and the arguments pro/con, I feel quite good about him, though.

Here's my perspective:

Instead of comparing Bridgewater to other elite draft prospects, shouldn't we be looking at current, great NFL QBs and determine what they have and then the likelihood that Teddy Bridgewater has, or can develop those things?

Usually, the elite prospects have an off-the-chart skill, or combination of skills that separate him from the rest. Either that, or incredible success/stats in his college career (Tim Couch, Vinny Testeverde, Peyton Manning)... Sometimes it is elite athleticism: RGIII, J.Russell, Cam Newton, Michael Vick, John Elway. Sometimes it is a remarkable arm: Jeff George, Troy Aikman, Drew Bledsoe.

Looking at those groups, sometimes the player has worked out very well, sometimes it doesn't. I'm not arguing that those players were drafted solely, or even primarily, because of that one elite ability. However, I am saying that it is usually one, definable trait that makes a QB a clear/universal number one choice.

However, that elite skill has never proven to be the difference-maker for greatness in the NFL. Not only that, but many of the all-time great QBs have lacked any elite skills. So, then, what is it that makes them great. The popular thinking is that guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees are overflowing with intangibles that they make up for their lack of athleticism. Essentially, they compensate with their mind and with their "heart" to make up for the lack of special athletic ability. I disagree. Instead, I think the elite athleticism that is coveted in the draft are highly overrated. I think an elite arm is almost inconsequential in the NFL. As many advantages as there is, it also creates problems- from bad habits to lower catch % by WRs, etc...

I think there is a baseline, though. To succeed in the NFL, QBs must be able to deliver the ball into tight windows. Therefore, a great QB must be able to get the ball from his hand to the hand of his WR in relatively little time... This, though, is necessarily a combination of decision-making, footwork, release, and arm strength. Can a QB consistently get the ball into those windows inside of that time?

So, back to the question: what makes a QB great in the NFL?

1st- He must have the combination of footwork, release, and arm strength to succeed in the NFL- by that, he must be able to fit the ball into spaces when a game is on the line and the other team knows it will be a pass.

2nd- Accuracy! All great NFL quarterbacks are accurate passers in the modern era. The NFL is now a 60/40 pass to run league. So, great QBs must have consistent accuracy.

3rd- Quick mental processor on the field.

4th most of the following intangibles: great work ethic, love of the game, intelligent, good decision-maker, leadership skills, mental toughness.


This is how I think the Texans should evaluate Bridgewater and all the QBs in the draft:

1. Does he have the necessary passing skills to get the ball into NFL windows consistently (yes or no)

2. Is he highly accurate?/ or, is he accurate enough and can we develop him into a highly accurate QB (yes or no)

3. Does he make consistently good decisions during games and under pressure? (yes or no).

4. Does he have a strong list of intangibles that can be nurtured so he can lead a team into, and through, years of success and also bounce back from moments of failure, leading his team through that as well? ( yes or no )

** If Bridgewater is a confident "yes" to all 4 of those questions, then I think the Texans must draft him. If not, stay away from him, because your evaluation of him indicates that sustained greatness is not even possible.

Are there other Qbs in the draft that you can answer yes to all 4 questions? Or to 3 of the questions with a "maybe" for 1? Can we get him later in round one or in round two?


Most of the criticism against Bridgewater are irrelevant to the question, "will he become a great NFL Qb?", IMO.

1. His arm is good, not great... His release is quick. His footwork is good and can be further improved with coaching... He has proven to be a quick decision-maker... I'm confident he has what is needed to get place the ball into NFL windows.

2. He is very accurate, and I don't see any physical or mechanical issues in the way of his accuracy becoming even greater.

3. I have not seen enough of him to argue about his decision-making... From what I have seen and heard, it seems to be a strength of his.

4. Again, I don't know him well enough to answer questions about his intangibles. But, again, from what I have witnessed and heard/read about, he seems to have a pretty good list of them.


Thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2013   #371
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Is it just me or do some of his throws (or all of them) remind you of Vince Young? His delivery is too slow IMO...would like a guy with more zip on the ball.
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Old 12-29-2013   #372
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm not fully determined that Bridgewater is the guy, yet. Based on what I have seen and the arguments pro/con, I feel quite good about him, though.

Here's my perspective:

Instead of comparing Bridgewater to other elite draft prospects, shouldn't we be looking at current, great NFL QBs and determine what they have and then the likelihood that Teddy Bridgewater has, or can develop those things?

Usually, the elite prospects have an off-the-chart skill, or combination of skills that separate him from the rest. Either that, or incredible success/stats in his college career (Tim Couch, Vinny Testeverde, Peyton Manning)... Sometimes it is elite athleticism: RGIII, J.Russell, Cam Newton, Michael Vick, John Elway. Sometimes it is a remarkable arm: Jeff George, Troy Aikman, Drew Bledsoe.

Looking at those groups, sometimes the player has worked out very well, sometimes it doesn't. I'm not arguing that those players were drafted solely, or even primarily, because of that one elite ability. However, I am saying that it is usually one, definable trait that makes a QB a clear/universal number one choice.

However, that elite skill has never proven to be the difference-maker for greatness in the NFL. Not only that, but many of the all-time great QBs have lacked any elite skills. So, then, what is it that makes them great. The popular thinking is that guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees are overflowing with intangibles that they make up for their lack of athleticism. Essentially, they compensate with their mind and with their "heart" to make up for the lack of special athletic ability. I disagree. Instead, I think the elite athleticism that is coveted in the draft are highly overrated. I think an elite arm is almost inconsequential in the NFL. As many advantages as there is, it also creates problems- from bad habits to lower catch % by WRs, etc...

I think there is a baseline, though. To succeed in the NFL, QBs must be able to deliver the ball into tight windows. Therefore, a great QB must be able to get the ball from his hand to the hand of his WR in relatively little time... This, though, is necessarily a combination of decision-making, footwork, release, and arm strength. Can a QB consistently get the ball into those windows inside of that time?

So, back to the question: what makes a QB great in the NFL?

1st- He must have the combination of footwork, release, and arm strength to succeed in the NFL- by that, he must be able to fit the ball into spaces when a game is on the line and the other team knows it will be a pass.

2nd- Accuracy! All great NFL quarterbacks are accurate passers in the modern era. The NFL is now a 60/40 pass to run league. So, great QBs must have consistent accuracy.

3rd- Quick mental processor on the field.

4th most of the following intangibles: great work ethic, love of the game, intelligent, good decision-maker, leadership skills, mental toughness.


This is how I think the Texans should evaluate Bridgewater and all the QBs in the draft:

1. Does he have the necessary passing skills to get the ball into NFL windows consistently (yes or no)

2. Is he highly accurate?/ or, is he accurate enough and can we develop him into a highly accurate QB (yes or no)

3. Does he make consistently good decisions during games and under pressure? (yes or no).

4. Does he have a strong list of intangibles that can be nurtured so he can lead a team into, and through, years of success and also bounce back from moments of failure, leading his team through that as well? ( yes or no )

** If Bridgewater is a confident "yes" to all 4 of those questions, then I think the Texans must draft him. If not, stay away from him, because your evaluation of him indicates that sustained greatness is not even possible.

Are there other Qbs in the draft that you can answer yes to all 4 questions? Or to 3 of the questions with a "maybe" for 1? Can we get him later in round one or in round two?


Most of the criticism against Bridgewater are irrelevant to the question, "will he become a great NFL Qb?", IMO.

1. His arm is good, not great... His release is quick. His footwork is good and can be further improved with coaching... He has proven to be a quick decision-maker... I'm confident he has what is needed to get place the ball into NFL windows.

2. He is very accurate, and I don't see any physical or mechanical issues in the way of his accuracy becoming even greater.

3. I have not seen enough of him to argue about his decision-making... From what I have seen and heard, it seems to be a strength of his.

4. Again, I don't know him well enough to answer questions about his intangibles. But, again, from what I have witnessed and heard/read about, he seems to have a pretty good list of them.


Thoughts?
great post!
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Old 12-29-2013   #373
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texan4Ever View Post
Is it just me or do some of his throws (or all of them) remind you of Vince Young? His delivery is too slow IMO...would like a guy with more zip on the ball.
His delivery is fast it's just that the ball isn't always coming out with a lot of zip, like you say.
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Old 12-29-2013   #374
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
He's not as athletic as Wilson but that's a fine comparison. Aaron Rodgers is a very mobile guy. I think they're very similar.
It's harder for me to get behind that comparison because of what Rodger's has accomplished in the NFL. He's one of the elite level QB's and he has won a Super Bowl. Wilson is mobile but seems to be more of a pocket passer, which seems to fit Bridgewater. Would I take Russell Wilson 1st overall? Yes, I would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan4Ever View Post
Is it just me or do some of his throws (or all of them) remind you of Vince Young? His delivery is too slow IMO...would like a guy with more zip on the ball.
That's what I originally thought until I watched more highlights and the game vs. Miami. He seemed to have better velocity and accuracy that I first thought.
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Old 12-29-2013   #375
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
It's harder for me to get behind that comparison because of what Rodger's has accomplished in the NFL. He's one of the elite level QB's and he has won a Super Bowl. Wilson is mobile but seems to be more of a pocket passer, which seems to fit Bridgewater. Would I take Russell Wilson 1st overall? Yes, I would.
I understand where you're coming from. I had the same issue grading Andrew Luck last year. I thought he was really similar to Peyton Manning except that he is a much better athlete. I even graded him higher than I graded Manning coming out of college. But then at the last moment I lowered his grade because of what Peyton has accomplished in the league. It seemed silly to say any college prospect could be better than Peyton Manning. But I really think Luck is that good.

In the same way, it seems silly to say that a college player is similar to a Super Bowl winning QB. But that's just who he reminds me of.
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Old 12-29-2013   #376
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
It's harder for me to get behind that comparison because of what Rodger's has accomplished in the NFL. He's one of the elite level QB's and he has won a Super Bowl. Wilson is mobile but seems to be more of a pocket passer, which seems to fit Bridgewater. Would I take Russell Wilson 1st overall? Yes, I would.



That's what I originally thought until I watched more highlights and the game vs. Miami. He seemed to have better velocity and accuracy that I first thought.
When did Rus Wil become a pocket passer? 2 seasons throwing less than 400x and rushing about 100. That's hardly a pocket passer. The only thing you will find any further from a pocket passer is Terrell Pryor or Michael Vick in his Falcon's days. Rus Wil is NOT a pocket passer and Teddy B is NOTHING like Rus Wil.

Teddy B is the most perfect Aaron Rodgers prospect I've seen in the last few years. Aaron is athletic, cool under pressure, and uses his legs to buy time to find his play makers down the field once they've got open. That can not be taught and I feel is lost on all these young "athletic" QBs.

Teddy has all the same traits, he maneuvers around the pocket buying time for play makers with little intention to take off for a 4 yard gain like guys like Rus Wil seem to make a living on. Buying time for play makers is a skill that can't be taught and I believe it's probably a top 3 most valuable skill I look for in a QB in the new NFL (untouchable QBs that aren't allowed to be hit until they cross LOS).

Examples of QBs that have recently exhibited this skill set:

Aaron Rodgers (Super Bowl)
Ben Ro (2 Super Bowls)
Joe Flacco (last year, you're damn right he did, and Super Bowl)
Drew Brees (Super Bowl)

As far as size and velocity on ball, these are questions on almost every non qb son coming out of college and the time leading up to the combine puts mass, muscle, and zip on all these 20 year old QBs. Those will all be resolved come combine, I've seen it happen numerous times and doubt this will be any different.
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Old 12-29-2013   #377
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
When did Rus Wil become a pocket passer? 2 seasons throwing less than 400x and rushing about 100. That's hardly a pocket passer. The only thing you will find any further from a pocket passer is Terrell Pryor or Michael Vick in his Falcon's days. Rus Wil is NOT a pocket passer and Teddy B is NOTHING like Rus Wil.

Teddy B is the most perfect Aaron Rodgers prospect I've seen in the last few years. Aaron is athletic, cool under pressure, and uses his legs to buy time to find his play makers down the field once they've got open. That can not be taught and I feel is lost on all these young "athletic" QBs.

Teddy has all the same traits, he maneuvers around the pocket buying time for play makers with little intention to take off for a 4 yard gain like guys like Rus Wil seem to make a living on. Buying time for play makers is a skill that can't be taught and I believe it's probably a top 3 most valuable skill I look for in a QB in the new NFL (untouchable QBs that aren't allowed to be hit until they cross LOS).

Examples of QBs that have recently exhibited this skill set:

Aaron Rodgers (Super Bowl)
Ben Ro (2 Super Bowls)
Joe Flacco (last year, you're damn right he did, and Super Bowl)
Drew Brees (Super Bowl)

As far as size and velocity on ball, these are questions on almost every non qb son coming out of college and the time leading up to the combine puts mass, muscle, and zip on all these 20 year old QBs. Those will all be resolved come combine, I've seen it happen numerous times and doubt this will be any different.
I'm not knocking the Aaron Rodgers comparison at all, that just seems like pretty lofty expectations.
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Old 12-29-2013   #378
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Is it just me or do some of his throws (or all of them) remind you of Vince Young? His delivery is too slow IMO...would like a guy with more zip on the ball.
I think his release is fine, the throws themselves aren't the fastest but it's not slow either.
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Old 12-29-2013   #379
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
I'm not knocking the Aaron Rodgers comparison at all, that just seems like pretty lofty expectations.
I buy the Aaron Rodgers comparison, but I'm not tagging him with Aaron Rodgers expectations. It's not that he is Aaron Rodgers (if he was pick him for God's sake) - he just has exhibited similar characteristics thus far in his college career. He seems to be cool under fire, a leader of his team, and solid mental and physical tools.
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Old 12-29-2013   #380
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
I'm not knocking the Aaron Rodgers comparison at all, that just seems like pretty lofty expectations.
History is made with new chapters opening for new QBs every draft. Rodgers would have been thrilled if one person would have compared him to Steve Young coming out. Instead the only thing I recall ever seeing was comparisons to Drew Brees (The Drew Brees before New Orleans).

By the end of Rodgers' career I don't think it will be crazy to say that he will have exceeded Steve Young's career accomplishments, which coming out of college would have also been very lofty expectations I imagine.

Being drafted in a new anti-defense pro-QB NFL doesn't hurt either.
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