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Old 12-20-2013   #81
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
^^^^
These

1.An owner comitted to winning above all else.
2.HC/GM Leader of men who wont except anything but the best and is willing to do whatever it takes to win on or off the field. That means giving up his time for the cause.
3. Same as above, and losing makes the QB sick at his stomach the next morning. QB that is at his best at the end of games. Winning time

The Texans have none of these type people at these positions currently in their org.
1.See you added Owner to list. Owners job is to get an exceptional GM/front office football people. FAILED and STILL FAILING just my opinion.
2.GM job is to hire head coach, handle talent and cap management. TOTAL FAILURE WITH NO CHANGE IN SIGHT
3.HC Kubiak was lacking in this area.
3.Real NFL QB

The Texans have none of the above therefore last place. I just hope we get LUCKY in hiring HC, draft, etc because based on where we are and who has/is (Smith) making these decisions I am not real confident change will occur.

If you have strong QB/HC like the Patriots and Saints the GM is maybe not as important.

When you have nothing as the Texans do then the GM is the KEY.

My opinion is we are handicapped with Smith as our GM. Look at the situation we are in with him in charge.
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Old 12-20-2013   #82
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

It's cumulative. You have to get an owner who has good intentions where winning is concerned. He wants to win and then he's got to be able to identify the right people to fill those GM and HC decisions. Even if he gets them then they have to do the same thing and identify the assistant coaches and players (and scouts and everything else that goes into it) and then be able to put themselves in a position to get them.

Even if everything falls into place up to that point there may not be a franchise QB in the draft when they have the opportunity to pick one. The talent pool in available assistant coaches might not be high when you happen to need one. So many things can get in the way and they all have to line up over the course of a few years to get you to the point where you can even be in the conversation and compete for a Super Bowl. Then that year everything has to fall into place to make it actually happen.

Until McNair gets the GM and HC hiring right we're in that group of organizations that have a few good years every now and then but aren't really in the running for the title game. We have been an "also ran" for the past couple of years, albeit an also-ran that made it to the playoffs. Not a real threat to win the AFC or the Lombardi.
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Last edited by Hervoyel; 12-20-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 12-20-2013   #83
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Only so much you can do about this, but I believe some of it is also the psychological effects of the team name and history. Are you going to hold your head high and gut through adversity if you are a "Brown" or a "Steeler" a "Lion" or a "Packer"? Sometimes things do change over extended periods of time, of course, but it's hard not to feel that beating the best teams in games that really count is impossible when you are on a team with no winning history, or one too far in the past.

I know that a young Montana, Elway, Brady, etc. would laugh at that, but how about Duane Brown when his QB is throwing pick-6's? How about a Kareem Jackson after a few losses in a row and Brian Cushing out for the season? Winners must have positive attitudes and having a positive attitude is tricky-dicky for those who haven't already won.
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Old 12-26-2013   #84
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

It all has to start with the owner, and wanting to have a winning organization, then being able to make the tough decisions that will enable the organization to achieve what it has set out to do.

For instance, if Rick Smith is not fired on Monday, I would just as soon Bob McNair sell the team to someone with the ability to run it properly. Someone who can make decisions based on winning.

There is absolutely no argument that convinces me Rick has earned the right to be here.
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Old 11-03-2014   #85
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gafftop View Post
1.See you added Owner to list. Owners job is to get an exceptional GM/front office football people. FAILED and STILL FAILING just my opinion.
2.GM job is to hire head coach, handle talent and cap management. TOTAL FAILURE WITH NO CHANGE IN SIGHT
3.HC Kubiak was lacking in this area.
3.Real NFL QB

The Texans have none of the above therefore last place. I just hope we get LUCKY in hiring HC, draft, etc because based on where we are and who has/is (Smith) making these decisions I am not real confident change will occur.

If you have strong QB/HC like the Patriots and Saints the GM is maybe not as important.

When you have nothing as the Texans do then the GM is the KEY.

My opinion is we are handicapped with Smith as our GM. Look at the situation we are in with him in charge.
Where do you think we stand now?
Seems like same old same old to me.
Need action on No.1 above.
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Old 11-03-2014   #86
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

In the past week I've seen posts that attribute

1) Hiring a good GM
2) Drafting well
3) Having a good organization

all to luck.

This thread lists several qualities that make good organizations. Luck isn't one of them. Can luck play a role in giving a team a short term boost? Sure, but it doesn't make for organizational excellence.

Relying on luck as a plan for success is not a sign of competence.
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Old 11-09-2014   #87
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
^^^^
These

1.An owner comitted to winning above all else.
2.HC/GM Leader of men who wont except anything but the best and is willing to do whatever it takes to win on or off the field. That means giving up his time for the cause.
3. Same as above, and losing makes the QB sick at his stomach the next morning. QB that is at his best at the end of games. Winning time

The Texans have none of these type people at these positions currently in their org.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You can have an owner who's committed to winning but who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and you're going nowhere. That owner has to be able to learn from his mistakes and not be lulled into complacency by any little bit of success he has. The Texans are bad about that last part and I sometimes wonder if McNair is where that tendency originates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
In the past week I've seen posts that attribute

1) Hiring a good GM
2) Drafting well
3) Having a good organization

all to luck.

This thread lists several qualities that make good organizations. Luck isn't one of them. Can luck play a role in giving a team a short term boost? Sure, but it doesn't make for organizational excellence.

Relying on luck as a plan for success is not a sign of competence.
I agree with above and I see no change in future. Last year was the time to clean house. Now if McNair gets rid of GM next year then in a few years we may have a chance. Just like we know what Fitz is we know what our GM is.
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Old 11-09-2014   #88
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Bob should fire Rick smith like right now and start searching for a, new one I don't know why there waiting
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Old 11-09-2014   #89
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Re: What sets the good organizations apart?


Fans!!!


Not the wishy washy ones either....

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Brain Cushing
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Old 11-09-2014   #90
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So what organizations are considered "good" and why?
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Old 11-10-2014   #91
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Being lucky and knowing how to manage your lucky breaks, for the most part.
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Old 11-10-2014   #92
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Having the Bart Starr (2) , Roger Staubach (2) , Bob Griese (2) , Jim Plunkett (2) , Terry Bradshaw (4) , Joe Montana (4), John Elway (2) , Eli Manning (2) , Tom Brady (3), Steve Young (3), Troy Aikman (3), Aaron Rodgers (1) , Ben Roethlisberger (2) or Peyton Manning (1) of your era.


Those 14 QB's account for 33 Superbowl wins and many more appearances.


You get lucky & draft the best QB of a given period of time while having a team around him that can help him get the job done.
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Old 11-10-2014   #93
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Edit: it's time I resumed my break.
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Old 11-10-2014   #94
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Being a Bengals fan, I can tell you that ownership plays the lead on all of this.

When Mike Brown refused to give up any little bit of control, it was a constant nightmare. Marvin Lewis came in (it's time for him to go now) and was given some leeway. Since they never had a GM, things have still been shaky at times. Now Mike Brown's daughter makes the mjority of the moves. New scouts were brought in and they started drafting better.

The better drafting has led to the Bengals being in the playoffs for 3 straight seasons and at least give them a shot to continue improving on what they have talent wise. However, all the ownership and coaching can't make the players make plays.

The QB is obviously important, but building a solid defense has to be part of the equation. You want to talk about the Steelers, talk about that defense. Hell, Roethlisberger had one of the worst QB ratings in history and won the Superbowl. Dilfer is a Super Bowl champion. Even Brady's Patriots had better than average defenses when they were always dominant. I just don't think defense can be overlooked.

Every QB needs to have a team built around him and guys that don't are so rare it's laughable. Even if the next Brady, Manning, or Rodgers comes along, what are the odds the team you root for is going to have a poor enough season to be in a position to draft them? If you think a guy is the next big thing, is your team willing to part with a ton of picks to take the chance to get him? Does that move work out? RGIII comes to mind there.

Luck does factor into things and no, i'm not talking about the QB of the Colts.
Sometimes sh*t just happens.
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Old 11-10-2014   #95
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Edit: it's time I resumed my break.
Should have left your post. It was well thought out.
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Old 11-10-2014   #96
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

One of the best organizations in sports right now is the San Antonio Spurs. From what I have gathered, they have:

1) A committed ownership group that supports the team goals while letting the basketball people run the basketball side of things.

2) An extremely competent GM in R.C. Buford.

3) The best head coach in the business today. One of the things that make him so successful is his flexibility in molding the system to fit the available talent, not the other way around. The Spurs during their first championship run was a defense first team that scored just enough to win. Their latest championship incarnation is an offensive powerhouse that also features a good defense.

4) A scouting system that identifies and acquires exceptional talent even thought they draft very low year after year.

5) Players that buy into the team first concept that puts winning above individual accomplishment. This is a result of the character of the team leaders as well as the organization choosing players that will fit into the team mindset.

6) The ability to to keep the team's stars and not losing them through free agency while at the same time very successfully replacing role players year after year.

7) Managing the salary cap very well. It keeps a talented team while avoiding paying the luxury tax.

8) A little bit of luck in acquiring Tim Duncan and the ability to exploit that luck.

In summary, the Spurs have competence and a focus on winning at every level of the organization. Everyone does their job very well and accepts no excuses. That is the major reason for their success.

They had a little bit of luck in winning the Tim Duncan lottery, but the acquisitions of other key players such as Parker and Ginobili were done through hard work and a willingness to think outside of the box.

The Spurs are a "model franchise", and other teams are emulating their methods. They are well worth studying by any serious sports organization.
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Old 11-10-2014   #97
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Quote:
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They had a little bit of luck in winning the Tim Duncan lottery, but the acquisitions of other key players such as Parker and Ginobili were done through hard work and a willingness to think outside of the box.

I like the Spurs organization as well, but why do you consider this a "little bit of luck"? They were already one of the better teams in the league, then David Robinson basically misses the whole season due to injury. They then win the draft lottery with only a 21.6% chance. Duncan was the consensus #1 overall, so it's not like they made a brilliant move to acquire Duncan. To me, it was a lot of luck they were able to get Duncan.
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Old 11-10-2014   #98
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
I like the Spurs organization as well, but why do you consider this a "little bit of luck"? They were already one of the better teams in the league, then David Robinson basically misses the whole season due to injury. They then win the draft lottery with only a 21.6% chance. Duncan was the consensus #1 overall, so it's not like they made a brilliant move to acquire Duncan. To me, it was a lot of luck they were able to get Duncan.
Fine. A lot of luck. I know the trend for some on this board is to attribute everything to luck, so I knew I should have taken "a little bit" off of that line when I wrote it.

Everything else about that organization screams competence and the quest for excellence. They have made that one gigantic, colossal, stupendous bucket of luck they received in 1997 pay off for 17 years. Most franchises can't keep a superstar for nearly that long. The team followed up their good fortune with over a decade and a half of continued excellence. No one is lucky that long - that was hard, smart work.

I don't think I characterized the acquisition of Duncan as "brilliant". However, their selections of Ginobili and Parker at their draft positions were pretty darn good, as well as some of the role players they have picked up over time. That list of names is too long for me to come up with off of the top of my head, but Boris Diaw is the latest in a long line.

So, in the end are the Spurs an organization worth emulating, or are they just lucky? What do you think of the first 7 points?
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Old 11-10-2014   #99
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Combine the best PF of all-time in Tim Duncan with his flopping and whining and the flopping and whining from Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and the rest of the merry band of often-times-thuggish, bitchmade Spur pieces of shit over the years and a corrupt Tim Donaghy reffing playoff games and stupid ****ing rules resulting in stupid ****ing suspensions and you have a run of unprecedented tyranny under a false umbrella of "class organization."

**** them and the horse they all rode in on. I'd rather kill myself than emulate what they've done to the sport of basketball. Would rather lose for eternity than win the way they've won.

If we're going to emulate any professional sports teams, I'd emulate the Dallas Mavericks, St. Louis Cardinals, Atlanta Braves, and Green Bay Packers.
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Old 11-10-2014   #100
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Combine the best PF of all-time in Tim Duncan with his flopping and whining and the flopping and whining from Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and the rest of the merry band of often-times-thuggish, bitchmade Spur pieces of shit over the years and a corrupt Tim Donaghy reffing playoff games and stupid ****ing rules resulting in stupid ****ing suspensions and you have a run of unprecedented tyranny under a false umbrella of "class organization."

**** them and the horse they all rode in on. I'd rather kill myself than emulate what they've done to the sport of basketball. Would rather lose for eternity than win the way they've won.

If we're going to emulate any professional sports teams, I'd emulate the Dallas Mavericks, St. Louis Cardinals, Atlanta Braves, and Green Bay Packers.
Well reasoned.
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