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Old 12-26-2013   #101
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

Give me Clowney first then trade our second and next years first for Manzel. I know people would hate that but you're getting the most exciting offensive and defensive players in the entire draft.
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Old 12-26-2013   #102
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Give me Clowney first then trade our second and next years first for Manzel. I know people would hate that but you're getting the most exciting offensive and defensive players in the entire draft.
While I want Teddy 1.1, if you are going to go Clowney at least have a plan to get a top QB like you do.
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Old 12-26-2013   #103
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Default Re: Fixing the OLine: Draft, FA, In-House

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Derek Carr shouldn't be scratched out of hand but he should have to undergo an interrogation which would make the CIA weenies at Gitmo blush before the Texans think about taking him.
Carrs game on Saturday scratched him from my book. Besides being a Carr, he didnt do much of anything in the game that inspired me.
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Old 12-26-2013   #104
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Give me Clowney first then trade our second and next years first for Manzel. I know people would hate that but you're getting the most exciting offensive and defensive players in the entire draft.
I like that, but I'm betting after the interviews a lot of teams are going to be gunning for Manziel. I bet one team will trade up to get him.

Not because of his play on the field, there are QBs with better film than Manziel. But I think they're going to find out that Johnny is one of those few QBs with the desire to be great, the talent to be great, & the moxy to do it.
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Old 12-26-2013   #105
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Give me Clowney first then trade our second and next years first for Manzel. I know people would hate that but you're getting the most exciting offensive and defensive players in the entire draft.
I really do understand where you're trying to go with this, but I still think this is just a terrible idea.
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Old 12-26-2013   #106
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Clowney never took plays off his 1st two yrs in college. Only after almost being garunteed to be a top 5 pick this yr before the season started and seeing his teamate (Lattimore) fall from a 1st rd pick to a 6th rd pick, Clowney decided to protect himself from injury this yr. That's human nature and I dont hold this against Clowney.
I damn sure do. That little 'lack of effort' cloud will be hanging over his head forever. What makes you think he will go all out and give 100% on every play once he pockets all that guaranteed money?

'Protect himself from injury' . . what a team player. Pass. If they can trade down, and he's still available . . maybe. But even then, he would still have that cloud hanging his head.

Don't think for one second that they won't be hammering him about it at the combine. He'd better be really good with his answers.

Last edited by Marcus; 12-26-2013 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-26-2013   #107
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

I think it seems pretty obvious that if Clowney is the first selection at 1-1 then the majority of posters are focused on finding a QB after that. Some want to see what's there at 2-1, others are interested in trading back up to get somebody or trading picks to get one next year. QB is the obsession and rightfully so.

If you took Matthews at 1-1 it would probably the same way.

Take Bridgewater at 1-1 and then people will start posting more divergent opinions of which way we go after that.
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Old 12-26-2013   #108
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Using Cutler as a high end placeholder until the young QB's are ready in 2-3 yrs ala Rodgers is a bad idea?

Rushing a rookie QB, be it your dream guy Bridgewater, my guy Mettenberger or Manziel/Bortles seems like a dumb idea. (Carr)

BTW, As I've said, I dont like any of the QB's in this draft. But the ones most likely to succeed are, Mettenberger/Bortles/Bridgewater in that order.

Tell me the difference between Bridgewater and Manziel minus the 2 inches of height. Both are mobile with avg arms. Both improvise alot?
Well first, the amount of money that Cutler will command on the open market means that we will have to sacrifice upgrading other positions because we won't be able to afford to. We're going to have to pay him. You realize that right?

Your grudge against anybody who likes Bridgewater is also pretty comical. Keep that up. It's fun.

I'm on record saying that I think Bridgewater is the top QB in this draft but that doesn't make him my dream guy. That would have been Luck. I've also never said anything about "rushing" a rookie QB. But at some point we will have to draft one. And if we draft one this year it will probably be Teddy, and yes, I think it should be.

As for the difference between Bridgewater and Manziel? Well, Bridgewater plays in a pro style offense where he takes traditional snaps and drops. He makes checks at the line of scrimmage. He is a very accurate passer. He is mentally prepared for the NFL game. He has also been extremely successful and productive in an offense with very little talent besides him. He is a plus athlete, but he uses his athleticism as a secondary asset.

Manziel plays in a Texas Tech/Oklahoma St/Houston/West Virgina retread offense that has never produced a NFL talent at QB. You could correctly argue that he is the most talented QB to come from this system but he is still completely unprepared for the mental part of playing QB in the NFL. He doesn't make traditional drops. He doesn't make checks at the line of scrimmage. He relies on his coaches to do literally all the mental things for him. That won't fly in the NFL. He is accurate in the sense that his completion percentage is high, but he is not exceedingly accurate in terms of putting the ball exactly where it needs to be. He relies a lot on the people around him. He has played with a ton of NFL talent surrounding him. He is a plus athlete, but relies on his athleticism too much, using it as a primary asset. He has made plays from the pocket in his career, but the great majority of his impact plays occur because of his feet, not his arm. That won't cut it in the NFL.
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Old 12-26-2013   #109
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Give me Clowney first then trade our second and next years first for Manzel. I know people would hate that but you're getting the most exciting offensive and defensive players in the entire draft.
John McClain suggested that very same thing in today's Chronicle. I always suspected that you were him. I figured if I waited long enough, you'd eventually give yourself away.



What in the world makes you think another team would be so stupid to make a trade like that?
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Old 12-26-2013   #110
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Well first, the amount of money that Cutler will command on the open market means that we will have to sacrifice upgrading other positions because we won't be able to afford to. We're going to have to pay him. You realize that right?
If need be the Texans can clear almost $40MM this offseason. They most likely won't but if the right player/situation presents itself, they can do it easily without adding any more "significant" holes to the team.

Cutler is not the long term answer. But if Bob is in win now mode it is the most obvious move if Cutler hits the market. If we sign him to a 1 year deal (which I think we will) it would be unlikely that we would draft Bridgewater #1 overall, but it doesn't mean we're ignoring the QB of the future all together.

Only that Bridgewater at 1 overall doesn't fit their plans.
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Old 12-26-2013   #111
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
What in the world makes you think another team would be so stupid to make a trade like that?
Are you expecting Manziel to go in the first 14 picks? This years second & next years first could be worth as much as 1160 points. This years 14th overall is only 1100 points. Anything higher than the 14th pick & that's a very fair deal.
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Old 12-26-2013   #112
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If need be the Texans can clear almost $40MM this offseason. They most likely won't but if the right player/situation presents itself, they can do it easily without adding any more "significant" holes to the team.

Cutler is not the long term answer. But if Bob is in win now mode it is the most obvious move if Cutler hits the market. If we sign him to a 1 year deal (which I think we will) it would be unlikely that we would draft Bridgewater #1 overall, but it doesn't mean we're ignoring the QB of the future all together.

Only that Bridgewater at 1 overall doesn't fit their plans.
I agree to an extent. This team has more holes than most fans realize or want to acknowledge. Cutler won't take this team any farther than it has gone before. I would rather rebuild this thing than play around with Cutler or any other mid level QB. I understand that is ultimately up to Bob but I'm hoping he doesn't set us back even further by pretending that a FA QB is going to take us anywhere.

I would be okay with Cutler for one year. But if I'm him or his agent, I'm not signing a one year deal.

If our new staff truly does their homework and decides that our future QB isn't in this draft, then I will trust them. But I fear Bob's "win now" plan will leave us stuck in 8-8 no man's land for a few years.
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Old 12-26-2013   #113
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Are you expecting Manziel to go in the first 14 picks? This years second & next years first could be worth as much as 1160 points. This years 14th overall is only 1100 points. Anything higher than the 14th pick & that's a very fair deal.
I'm expecting Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles to go in the top 10, personally.

And I'm expecting Hundley, Carr, and Boyd to go later in the 1st or early in the 2nd.

But that could all change after the Combine.
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Old 12-26-2013   #114
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
John McClain suggested that very same thing in today's Chronicle. I always suspected that you were him. I figured if I waited long enough, you'd eventually give yourself away.



What in the world makes you think another team would be so stupid to make a trade like that?
Well that would be the first thing me and Mcflame ever agreed on.

What is stupid about trading a pick in the teens for the first pick in the second round and and a future first? Of course I beleive manzel will probably go top 8 so yeh if that's the case it would take more.
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Old 12-26-2013   #115
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

For the sake of the QB discussion about who will go and where, here is my best guess. I posted this in the Jake Matthews thread but it is useful here too, I think.

Bridgewater - Top 3
Bortles - Between 3-15
Mettenberger - Between 10-25
Carr - Between 10-35
Manziel - Between 15-40
McCarron - Between 30-45
Hundley - I think he goes back to school. But I think he would go in the top half of the 2nd.
Boyd - 2nd round

Everyone else is 3rd round or later. Murray may sneak into the 2nd if Hundley goes back to school.

I could see a max of three QBs going in the top 15 and four going in the top 20. Four or five total going in the first round.

Bridgewater, Bortles, and Mettenberger all as first round locks. Carr a highly likely first rounder. That's four. So five if Manziel slides in.
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Old 12-26-2013   #116
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

So this moron got caught speeding 25 miles above the speed limit again today.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...medium=twitter

What a ****in' idiot. I don't want anything to do with someone so dumb.
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Old 12-26-2013   #117
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Well first, the amount of money that Cutler will command on the open market means that we will have to sacrifice upgrading other positions because we won't be able to afford to. We're going to have to pay him. You realize that right?

Your grudge against anybody who likes Bridgewater is also pretty comical. Keep that up. It's fun.

I'm on record saying that I think Bridgewater is the top QB in this draft but that doesn't make him my dream guy. That would have been Luck. I've also never said anything about "rushing" a rookie QB. But at some point we will have to draft one. And if we draft one this year it will probably be Teddy, and yes, I think it should be.

As for the difference between Bridgewater and Manziel? Well, Bridgewater plays in a pro style offense where he takes traditional snaps and drops. He makes checks at the line of scrimmage. He is a very accurate passer. He is mentally prepared for the NFL game. He has also been extremely successful and productive in an offense with very little talent besides him. He is a plus athlete, but he uses his athleticism as a secondary asset.

Manziel plays in a Texas Tech/Oklahoma St/Houston/West Virgina retread offense that has never produced a NFL talent at QB. You could correctly argue that he is the most talented QB to come from this system but he is still completely unprepared for the mental part of playing QB in the NFL. He doesn't make traditional drops. He doesn't make checks at the line of scrimmage. He relies on his coaches to do literally all the mental things for him. That won't fly in the NFL. He is accurate in the sense that his completion percentage is high, but he is not exceedingly accurate in terms of putting the ball exactly where it needs to be. He relies a lot on the people around him. He has played with a ton of NFL talent surrounding him. He is a plus athlete, but relies on his athleticism too much, using it as a primary asset. He has made plays from the pocket in his career, but the great majority of his impact plays occur because of his feet, not his arm. That won't cut it in the NFL.
I dont have a grudge against Bridgewater. Why is it when I say I dont think Bridgewater will be anything more than a little above avg NFL QB, Just like Manziel who I agree with alot of your analysis I have a grudge against Bridgewater.

I just dont think there's a franchise QB in this draft. Mettenberger/Bortles have the best chance to become franchise QB's. IMHO This doesn't mean I'm right, but I certainly think you can come up with something better than I hold a grudge.

We just disagree on Bridgewater in particular and reaching for a franchise QB in general. I'm a fix the trenches this yr guy and wait until next yr when the 4th best QB will be better than any QB in this draft. IMHO

I'm willing to wait a yr and you want instant gratification. I get that, it's human nature. Some say but we wont have the top pick next yr. I say you can trade up to the 7-10 range because I have the Texans picking in the 12-18 range in the 2015 draft without having to give up an arm and a leg. They could even trade down this yr say to Cleveland at #5 a 2014 3rd and a 2015 1st and have the ammunition to move up in 2015.

They could still draft a great player at 5. The difference is that YOU think Bridgewater is worthy of #1 and I dont. But I do enjoy the back and forth discussion. Just to be clear I dont hold a grudge against Bridgewater. BTW, Winston is my #1 rated QB in the 2015 draft so that angle is invalid.
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Old 12-26-2013   #118
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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So this moron got caught speeding 25 miles above the speed limit again today.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...medium=twitter

What a ****in' idiot. I don't want anything to do with someone so dumb.
I'm sure Bob feels splendid about Clowney.

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Old 12-26-2013   #119
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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So this moron got caught speeding 25 miles above the speed limit again today.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...medium=twitter

What a ****in' idiot. I don't want anything to do with someone so dumb.
I've watched just about every youtube video on this guy in the last 3 weeks. It's hard not to get excited about him. He's a fast twitch guy, with a very good burst. He understands & excels at making a beeline to the ball carrier once he gets a glimpse of where the ball is.
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Old 12-26-2013   #120
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Default Re: Clowney, then what?

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I dont have a grudge against Bridgewater. Why is it when I say I dont think Bridgewater will be anything more than a little above avg NFL QB, Just like Manziel who I agree with alot of your analysis I have a grudge against Bridgewater.

I just dont think there's a franchise QB in this draft. Mettenberger/Bortles have the best chance to become franchise QB's. IMHO This doesn't mean I'm right, but I certainly think you can come up with something better than I hold a grudge.

We just disagree on Bridgewater in particular and reaching for a franchise QB in general. I'm a fix the trenches this yr guy and wait until next yr when the 4th best QB will be better than any QB in this draft. IMHO

I'm willing to wait a yr and you want instant gratification. I get that, it's human nature. Some say but we wont have the top pick next yr. I say you can trade up to the 7-10 range because I have the Texans picking in the 12-18 range in the 2015 draft without having to give up an arm and a leg. They could even trade down this yr say to Cleveland at #5 a 2014 3rd and a 2015 1st and have the ammunition to move up in 2015.

They could still draft a great player at 5. The difference is that YOU think Bridgewater is worthy of #1 and I dont. But I do enjoy the back and forth discussion. Just to be clear I dont hold a grudge against Bridgewater. BTW, Winston is my #1 rated QB in the 2015 draft so that angle is invalid.
It has nothing to do with your opinion of Bridgewater. It has everything to do with your opinion challenges people who have already made up the minds, fallen in love with Bridgewater and have already convinced themselves that Bridgewater is the Savior. They see any negative criticism as not only an attack on Teddy but them as well. All this really means is that they have bought all the ongoing media hype for the last year. Who says advertising doesn't work. As we get closer to draft day Bridgewater's stock will continue to fade. It has already started.
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