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Old 12-21-2013   #21
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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Originally Posted by Trap_Star View Post
call me crazy, but after reading your first 3 posts, I get the sneaky suspicion you like promoting Blake Bortles.
I did not watch entire video but he is really assisted by his WRs a complaint made against McCarron. I do like is movement in pocket and behind LOS, seems very athletic.
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Old 12-21-2013   #22
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yeah, thanks for correction & should have said 5th or later. I was thinking Graham was a 5th (4th) and Griffin was actually a 6th. As the TE is played in Houston, I think Casey's last two seasons were very successful. My position is I would not take a TE before 5th.
This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.
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Old 12-21-2013   #23
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

007 I just totally disagree with you. Give me a big fast WR and a Rb that can catch. I have never been fan of TEs and the Gronks of the world are very rare. I am not big on ZBS either.
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Old 12-21-2013   #24
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

I think it depends on your philosophy.

Is anyone going to debate that Jimmy Graham or Gronkowski aren't the most indispensable guys on those offenses (outside of the QB obviously)? What about Antonio Gates for all those years in SD? Witten during his prime in Dallas? However, is there any debate about AJ in Houston? Megatron in Detroit? Jones in Atlanta?

It really just depends on the vision you have for your offense.
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Old 12-21-2013   #25
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.
+1

If i was devising an offence i would have this strategy in mind. I have been calling for Houston to draft an Elite level TE for a couple of years now. Its not necessarily a position of need at the moment but it sure might be BPA come draft day.
In a trade down situation with the rams or browns, the 2nd of your 2 first rounders or early 2nd round i would be having a very hard look at either Amaro, Ebron or Seferian-Jenkins
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Old 12-21-2013   #26
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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007 I just totally disagree with you. Give me a big fast WR and a Rb than can catch. I have never been fan of TEs and the Gronks of the world are very rare. I am not big on ZBS either.
Obviously I don't expect everyone to share my philosophy. But I would argue that the Calvin Johnsons and Jamaal Charles' of the world are just as rare.

I'm also not a fan of the ZBS. I believe that zone plays are effective when used correctly but I don't like designing an entire offense around it.

I just believe that the ability to be multiple on offense and defense gives you an advantage over your opponent.
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Old 12-21-2013   #27
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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+1

If i was devising an offence i would have this strategy in mind. I have been calling for Houston to draft an Elite level TE for a couple of years now. Its not necessarily a position of need at the moment but it sure might be BPA come draft day.
In a trade down situation with the rams or browns, the 2nd of your 2 first rounders or early 2nd round i would be having a very hard look at either Amaro, Ebron or Seferian-Jenkins
I'm not a huge fan of Amaro at the next level. I think that he is a great athlete for his size but he doesn't fit what I want from a TE, at least not in the first round, which is where I think he will end up. I like Seferian-Jenkins and C.J. Fiedorowicz (Iowa) the most.
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Old 12-21-2013   #28
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I'm not a huge fan of Amaro at the next level. I think that he is a great athlete for his size but he doesn't fit what I want from a TE, at least not in the first round, which is where I think he will end up. I like Seferian-Jenkins and C.J. Fiedorowicz (Iowa) the most.
you like them more based off value??

what don't you like about amaro? physically his elite, has good hands, blocks well but could get better needs to be more ferocious tends to be to relaxed when blocking because of his strength and will not get away with that in the NFL. Runs good routes admittedly its a pretty simple offence for him, a lot of slants and seam routes. Thats my quick analysis of him. i have him as a top 25 player
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Old 12-21-2013   #29
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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you like them more based off value??

what don't you like about amaro? physically his elite, has good hands, blocks well but could get better needs to be more ferocious tends to be to relaxed when blocking because of his strength and will not get away with that in the NFL. Runs good routes admittedly its a pretty simple offence for him, a lot of slants and seam routes. Thats my quick analysis of him. i have him as a top 25 player
I have him as my #2 TE and #29 overall so obviously I think he is talented. I don't like the way he is used at Texas Tech. He is basically a slot WR. His game as a TE is very unrefined. Yes, he is good at blocking DBs and LBs from the outside in, but I worry about his ability to block on the line of scrimmage. The potential is there, but thus far it remains to be seen.

I think he goes in the first round because his athleticism and size is too much to pass up. I would just rather someone else take the risk. I am much more comfortable with ASJ, and I think Fiedorowicz will be a steal for somebody.
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Old 12-23-2013   #30
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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I have him as my #2 TE and #29 overall so obviously I think he is talented. I don't like the way he is used at Texas Tech. He is basically a slot WR. His game as a TE is very unrefined. Yes, he is good at blocking DBs and LBs from the outside in, but I worry about his ability to block on the line of scrimmage. The potential is there, but thus far it remains to be seen.

I think he goes in the first round because his athleticism and size is too much to pass up. I would just rather someone else take the risk. I am much more comfortable with ASJ, and I think Fiedorowicz will be a steal for somebody.
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If amaro is an elite Y-flex/slot type te,I don't care if he's an in line blocker. U can stick graham or griffin in there to block. You don't se jimmy graham blocking de's. Shannon sharpe didn't really do it either,but when he ran routes,he was a problem
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Old 12-23-2013   #31
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

I'm hoping a team will want to trade up for Clowney
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Old 12-23-2013   #32
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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Ocke
If amaro is an elite Y-flex/slot type te,I don't care if he's an in line blocker. U can stick graham or griffin in there to block. You don't se jimmy graham blocking de's. Shannon sharpe didn't really do it either,but when he ran routes,he was a problem
He's a great athlete but he's not the athlete that Jimmy Graham is. He's a better athlete than most TEs but not as great an athlete as most slot WRs, so making him a flex TE basically takes away the matchup advantages his athleticism creates. If he's always going to be flexed out then defenses know they don't have to account for him as a blocker in the run game, which means they won't use a LB on him in coverage. He's not going to beat NFL DBs consistently in the seam or over the top. Which means you're basically using a first round pick on a slot WR who is only valuable within 10 yards and isn't athletic enough to consistently get much YAC out of his receptions.

At this point in his development, he is not a NFL TE. He is a H-Back or flex TE. A situational player. Great piece to have if you don't have holes elsewhere, not worth a first round pick for us.

That's not to say that the potential isn't there, just that so far it is untapped. I think he is a bigger risk than a guy like Sefarian-Jenkins for our franchise because he won't make an immediate impact the way a first rounder should.
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Old 12-23-2013   #33
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Obviously I don't expect everyone to share my philosophy. But I would argue that the Calvin Johnsons and Jamaal Charles' of the world are just as rare.

I'm also not a fan of the ZBS. I believe that zone plays are effective when used correctly but I don't like designing an entire offense around it.

I just believe that the ability to be multiple on offense and defense gives you an advantage over your opponent.
Enjoying the back & forth. Don't have to have a Calvin or Jamaal to be huge success, look what Hopkins did first part of the year. On a side note, he has certainly fallen off the success wagon, coaching?
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Old 12-23-2013   #34
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Enjoying the back & forth. Don't have to have a Calvin or Jamaal to be huge success, look what Hopkins did first part of the year. On a side note, he has certainly fallen off the success wagon, coaching?
Combination of coaching, play calling, and QB play. The talent is clearly there.
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Old 12-23-2013   #35
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Combination of coaching, play calling, and QB play. The talent is clearly there.
really disapointing as we all wanted to see improvements. For me I wanted to see our WRs really stretch the defense...so much for that.
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Old 12-25-2013   #36
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Don't use winner to sell a QB prospect. Put you or me at QB for Alabama and we'd put up a winning record.

Hate the idea of a second round QB. Go big or go home.
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Old 12-26-2013   #37
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Don't use winner to sell a QB prospect. Put you or me at QB for Alabama and we'd put up a winning record.

Hate the idea of a second round QB. Go big or go home.
I guess I'm curious how much Alabama football you watch? McCarron has all the tools to be a very successful qb at the next level. I can go dig up losers if you like though.
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Old 12-26-2013   #38
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This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.
Jordan Najvar is that type TE that you're looking for and he should be available in the 5th due to past injuries and the offense he played in.

Kinda like the TE Wilson from Rice that the Seahawks drafted late. last yr

I would also take a risk on a guy liike Lyerla in the 6-7th rd.
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Old 12-26-2013   #39
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Jordan Najvar is that type TE that you're looking for and he should be available in the 5th due to past injuries and the offense he played in.

Kinda like the TE Wilson from Rice that the Seahawks drafted late. last yr

I would also take a risk on a guy liike Lyerla in the 6-7th rd.
I'll tell you the TE I really wanted last year played right here @ Rice, Vance McDonald. San Francisco drafted him, in the 2nd rd. even though they have Vernon Davis. 6040 267 he has developed his blocking skills into asset both in run & passing game. He also gives them a measure of insurance in case something befalls Davis. The steal of the draft and I missed on him, is Washington Jordan Reed, late 3rd rd. all he's done is have 45 catches, 500 yards & three TD's in a dysfunctional offense while playing though nagging injury's.

I've struggled with making another TE selection, really hard with unknown new regime. Should be easier task once announced, but as several on the board already mention his name frequently I might just as well go ahead & add my endorsement as well for CJ Fiedorowiez, Iowa. Big frame, 6060 265+ stout blocker with surprisingly soft hands. Despite lack of production this past year, 26 receptions compared to 45 his Junior season it should only help his sleeper status so even though he is 2nd rd. talent he will be there in the 3rd if Texans so choose. My issue is that Texans have so many issues how do you reconcile & draft a TE over a RT here?
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Old 12-26-2013   #40
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Default Re: NastyNate's mock

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Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
I guess I'm curious how much Alabama football you watch? McCarron has all the tools to be a very successful qb at the next level. I can go dig up losers if you like though.
When McCarron is getting comparisons to a less-athletic Matt Cassel, things don't look great.
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