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Old 12-19-2013   #21
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.
I like Attoachu but not nearly that much.
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Old 12-19-2013   #22
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.
Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.
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Old 12-19-2013   #23
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.
Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.
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Old 12-19-2013   #24
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.
Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/f.../individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/f.../individual/39
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Old 12-19-2013   #25
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/f.../individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/f.../individual/39
didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......
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Old 12-20-2013   #26
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......
Me thinks yes!
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Old 12-20-2013   #27
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......
He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.
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Old 12-24-2013   #28
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.

While I think Barr can be an above average pass rusher, I still don't see how people feel he is better than Mack. Just watch the difference between the two on film. Mack rarely gets tied up by blockers, his hand movement and balance are just so smooth it's a pleasure to watch him school guys like Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. He is the only defensive threat at Buffalo and he still maneuvers through double teams with ease. FF and TFL NCAA record holder for a reason.
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Old 12-24-2013   #29
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.
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Old 12-24-2013   #30
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.
you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB
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Old 12-25-2013   #31
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB
Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.
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Old 12-25-2013   #32
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.
I have been leaning this way lately. Seems like there is a great opportunity to build a dominating defense in this draft. I would love to see what What Watt and the defense would look like with another dominating player on the Dline.
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Old 12-25-2013   #33
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.
Until proven otherwise, I will maintain at least two out of the top three (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel) & a third (dark horse now) franchise QB's in this draft at minimum but do you really want to take that chance?. Odds are against all three top prospects panning out depending on situation or unforeseen factors.

Lets just look @ Texan position. Manziel stands best chance of making instant impact because of his mobility, pocket presence, ability to extend plays & shoulder media/on field pressure. My reservation about him is not so much immaturity off the field as will be his durability. He will have to be smarter & avoid contact much as possible, know he will get tagged & miss some time. Keenum would make a great tandem back-up the offense will not deviate a whole lot long as Texans have a more healthy back-field. This would allow Texans to trade down.

Bortles will struggle if Texans don't fix offensive line & running game. Strongest arm of group with ability to throw long ball, good pocket presence but more a pocket QB. Would be a good fit if Texans change to power scheme, ball control offense like Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Looks like a bell cow franchise QB, size, arm, leadership ability.

Bridgewater would be exceptional spread offense QB like Chip Kelly runs in Philadelphia or Art Briles runs @ Baylor (is he a head coaching option for Texans?). Teddy could also fit in Pro-Style set which trumps the group because of his diversity to play in different packages. He is my clear consensus #1 overall pick but if Texans get a great trade offer & new coach has someone else in mind who he could plug in & play they you might get your wish

It is Christmas after all
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Old 01-08-2014   #34
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Default Kiper's Big Board

Anyone with insider access? I'd like to know where Bridgewater slid to & why. Without access, all we get is this.
Quote:
In terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tape
  1. Jadaveon Clowney
  2. Anthony Barr
  3. Jake Matthews

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Old 01-08-2014   #35
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board



Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd...

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Old 01-08-2014   #36
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

So... I activated my "insider" account & found why Kiper dropped Bridgewater in his top 25.
10 Teddy Bridgewater
Quote:
In terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tape
Quote:
He drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.
Well, he doesn't give a reason for letting him slide. I find it interesting that even though he is the tenth best player in the draft, Kiper feels Bridgewater will most likely go in the top 5.
14 Johnny Manziel
Quote:
Based on talk he would enter the draft, I did a full breakdown on Manziel. Take a look at that. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently. Height will always be a question, but he has proved it won't stop him.
He's got Hundley at 17, but we know Hundley stated he was going back to college. No other QB in his top 25 players.
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Old 01-09-2014   #37
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

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LOL!! I don't think Thunder followed your link by his comment after this.

*For those too lazy to click the hyperlink, it goes to page 1 of this VERY thread... we are currently on page 2*
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Old 01-09-2014   #38
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...
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Old 01-09-2014   #39
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Default Re: Kiper's Big Board

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LOL!! I don't think Thunder followed your link by his comment after this.

*For those too lazy to click the hyperlink, it goes to page 1 of this VERY thread... we are currently on page 2*
If you must know, I replied to the link he posted. The mods must have merged the threads. There was 2 weeks between my most recent post in this thread & the last post in the original.
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Old 01-09-2014   #40
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Default Re: Kiper 2014

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Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!
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