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Old 12-17-2013   #61
Honoring Earl 34
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I guess I was unclear - let players get away when they are league leaders not let players who had once been league leaders get away.

They did a bunch of wheeling and dealing in 2012 . The kept Foster and lost Mario , Demeco , Eric Winston , Dreesen , and Briesel .
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Old 12-17-2013   #62
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Sorry you cant get 1 great player and 2-3 above avg players every year. The math simply doesnt work either in cap room, number draft picks, draft success or number of players on a team. How many great and above avg players do you plan on losing every year to reach the "new" figures every year?
See that's where I think you're wrong. Take this yr for instance. You could draft Clowney (Potentially great) Mettenberger (Has as much potential as any QB in this draft. (Morgan Moses Solid OT on a bad team) then trade up into the 3rd rd and draft a solid LB like Skov that's 4 solid day 1 starters. Then in rds Comp pick 5-7 you start drafting guys like Exum (Coming off injury) or Dyer/Crowell who proved they can be good on the major college level. But like to smoke weed. If they bust you really haven't lost anything. That's 4-6 players that can be added in this yrs draft that should help rebuild the foundation of this franchise.

In a regular draft you should be able to draft atleast 1 stud in the 1st rd and if you wanted to trade up using lower rd picks say like a 2-3/5th for instance you should be able to add 2 first rd picks that can cntribute immediately. In addition to adding the injured/troubled guys in rd.4-6-7. If 1 of these guys work out you get a 1-2nd rd talent in the 5th/6th rd. If they start smoking pot again what have you really lost a late rd draft pick. This way you get your 3 big time contributors. This is just one example of how to add guys. The Seahawks built there entire secondar minus Earl Thomas using this theory. Same with the 49ers.

BoB/Rick/Charley/Gary make this stuff sound like brain surgery. It's not, you just have to do your homework and be willing to take risks on talented/injured players with Character flaws in the late rds. Teams that win do this regularly, and until the Texans get in the game they will continue to be a hit or miss winning team and never a true SB contender. IMHO

How many impact players did the Texans lose this offseason? 2-3? Quin/Cody/Barwin/Walter/Casey? Who else did they lose that you would say was a true impact player? They had 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds to replace these guys. If your going to be a pay your guys a kings ransom (BoB/Rick/Gary's choice) your going to lose guys. That's the way the system is set up. How do you replace them? By doing the hard work and hitting on 3-4 guys a yr.

The Texans haven't done this and are currently sitting at 2-14 for this reason. Of course with BoB there's very little accountability or the Texans wouldn't have Rick still as their GM or be in the current cap hell they are in because Rick misread the tea leaves when it came to the level of salary cap increases before the CBA was signed. Good GM's did well with this, unfortunately Rick is not a good GM.
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Old 12-17-2013   #63
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
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Old 12-17-2013   #64
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
They did a bunch of wheeling and dealing in 2012 . The kept Foster and lost Mario , Demeco , Eric Winston , Dreesen , and Briesel .
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
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Old 12-17-2013   #65
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO
I forgot about Schaub .

I do remember CnD saying that Schaub would have a hard time .
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Old 12-17-2013   #66
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.
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Old 12-17-2013   #67
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO

2012 was different & we didn't have the same options to free up money as we do this year. I was never a Winston fan, but I'm pretty sure Kubiak was. He'd have kept Winston if at all possible. At the very least, they expected the cap to stay the same as it was before the lock-out. Then it wouldn't have been so bad. But the cap went down, they weren't expecting that & cutting Winston was the proof.

& though the end result was the same, Schaub's issues were not related to his LisFranc. Schaub's problem, I think, was that he was told that he has to make plays, make things happen. He started double thinking himself, telegraphing his passes, & missing his reads.

I'm not a big fan of Matt Schaub, but he's not the scrub he's being made out to be. Had he not gotten hurt in St Louis, we could possibly be fighting for an outside chance at a play-off berth, like San Diego, Detroit & Dallas. We'd definitely need help, but we wouldn't be preparing for the draft.

I liked the contract at the time. It gave Schaub 2 seasons to prove he deserved Romo money. He got starter money. Though he was not a Super Bowl QB, he was definitely a starter.
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Old 12-17-2013   #68
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.
Sounds like a great plan to me. I doubt Rick will will have the foresight to see a plan like this thru. I wonder how much of a cut JoJo/Antonio will be willing to take. I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil. I would be willing to split 11 mil between them and if they dont take it let them move on and move forward with the rebuilding project.
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Old 12-17-2013   #69
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut.
That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.
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Old 12-17-2013   #70
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
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Old 12-17-2013   #71
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
Rick Smith the Godfather, somehow with the way the Texans org is run this seems appropriate. The fans of this team are screwed. Hope I'm wrong.
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Old 12-18-2013   #72
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil.
Antonio is a free agent next year. There is nothing in our cap allotted for him.

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.


Right, I just used cutting Jjo as a way to get the $7M for moving Schaub to a June 1st cut. Moving Schaub to a June 1st, I wouldn't cut Jjo, instead I'd renegotiate, thinking the net sum would be $32. For me, it's a one or the other thing.
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Old 12-21-2013   #73
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.
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Old 12-21-2013   #74
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.
Yes, but as you know most people in this fan base would rather ignore things like this until it's so glaringly obvious that it's effected the team drastically. I think Smith has done a nice job in first round picks, but a lot of those picks have had a lot to do with who Wade told him to pick and Kubiak in that regard. I really have no idea why Smith collects a pay check, but I think he cozied up so well to Bob Mcnair that he has become like family to him. It feels like anyone can get really close to Bob and earn his unconditional trust.
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Old 12-21-2013   #75
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

Just my opinion of Rick Smith based on situation the Texans are in presently.
The GM has to be concerned with the long term view of the team. Rick has been year to year worried about saving his job. He should have traded Tate this year when we might have got a 1st round draft choice for him just to point out most recent example.

See Morey for Rockets he built up talent and used them as chips to continuously make the Rockets a force. Smith just rents his players or overpays for others. (See Reed, Schaub, and others)

I can hear it now " Rick Smith just can't improve this team because of the cap."
Guess what Smith is the reason the Texans are in this situation.

McNair thinks this team is much more talented than it really is. That is the main reason I guess McNair hasn't gotten rid of Smith. Seriously Smith is the person in the brain trust with the most football knowledge on this organization? We are still drowning then.

See his resume and highlights
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/st...3-5f875710e9b2

Schaub, Yates, Brooks Reed, Mercilus, trading DeMeco, KJ, and Crick are mentioned as a few of his GREAT moves. SERIOUSLY!!!!?????

I am still pissed because I see at BEST intermittent success for this franchise.

Kind of like "Even a blind hog finds an acorn" I think sums up our time with Smith in charge.

Also don't like snakes. The right thing was for Smith to fall on the sword also instead of using it to stab Kubiak.

Tired of the excuse that maybe he didn't make the decisions. His role should have been to make the decisions. If he didn't make the decisions then what did he do, and why all of the sudden is he going to be qualified now to make decisions. If he did make the decisions then they were bad. Either way for his tenure here he has done nothing but make friends with McNair.

Just my opinion. I hope I am wrong.
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Old 12-21-2013   #76
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

Nobody would have traded a first for Tate, maybe you could have gotten a 4th at best.
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Old 12-21-2013   #77
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Nobody would have traded a first for Tate, maybe you could have gotten a 4th at best.
You may be right. What did the Colts give up for Trent?
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Old 12-21-2013   #78
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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You may be right. What did the Colts give up for Trent?
A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.
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Old 12-21-2013   #79
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.
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Old 12-21-2013   #80
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Default Re: All encompassing Rick Smith thread

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Originally Posted by gafftop View Post
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.
Dude, I can't stand Smith, if you read at the beginning and all through this thread you'd see that. I think he's terrible at drafting outside the first round and want him gone more than I want Wade out. I just don't think we'd have been able to get anything for Tate, certainly not a first.

Also, want to apologize for calling the comparison moronic, having a bad day.
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