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Old 12-17-2013   #41
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?


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To be crystal clear I think Bob stewed all the way home on his flight from JAX to HOU. Others were all to happy to pour gasoline and stoke that fire along the way. By the time his jet landed in HOU Bob had made up his mind he was firing Kubiak the next morning. Rick Smith couldn't wait to call Peter King fast enough with the news the next morning. Nothing, absolutely nothing has come of it except they could talk to Lovie Smith. They could've done that anyways because everyone knew that the coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was getting fired the day the season ended.
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Old 12-17-2013   #42
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.
Listening to the presser when Bob announced that Case Keenum was his starting QB for the rest of the season, my head sank, and I thought, Good Grief, Bob is Jerah Jones.
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Old 12-17-2013   #43
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To be crystal clear I think Bob stewed all the way home on his flight from JAX to HOU. Others were all to happy to pour gasoline and stoke that fire along the way. By the time his jet landed in HOU Bob had made up his mind he was firing Kubiak the next morning. Rick Smith couldn't wait to call Peter King fast enough with the news the next morning. Nothing, absolutely nothing has come of it except they could talk to Lovie Smith. They could've done that anyways because everyone knew that the coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was getting fired the day the season ended.
Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.


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Old 12-17-2013   #44
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Listening to the presser when Bob announced that Case Keenum was his starting QB for the rest of the season, my head sank, and I thought, Good Grief, Bob is Jerah Jones.
I"m not a big fan of owners getting in front of their football staff on personnel matters. I thought he should have deferred to Rick Smith on that one, just out of respect for his GM and also not to look so Jerrah-like.

It was a very strange press conference for McNair considering the past 12 seasons.

My only hope is that they really wanted to satisfy their curiosity about Keenum. Most of us have always assumed he was a Kubiak QB, but maybe those first couple of starts and connections with AJ made them curious? Just speculating, but it's not too often you see an owner openly endorse a third string UDFA QB like that press conference.
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Old 12-17-2013   #45
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.


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I agree that for a couple of months Bob was disappointed and upset with the direction of the season. IMHO I think it was a very bad airplane ride home that set the firing of Kubiak and the poor press conference in motion the very next morning. To me that AM press conference didn't appear to be well planned, thought out, very last minute, done in haste. Bob appeared disheveled, angry, upset, not well composed, searching, dysfunctional and a bit discombobulated. All quite out of the ordinary for Bob McNair and his carefully managed image.
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Old 12-17-2013   #46
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?
I definitely think it was an overreaction. I know everyone wants to give Wade credit for getting us to the play-offs, but McNair fired Kubiak after we allowed a 14.4 ppg team to score 27 points on us for the second time in 3 weeks, then he promoted the guy most responsible for it. & these weren't just flukes... these were 80 yard drives ending in TDs.

Then if you think Wade was "forced" on Kubiak, it makes even less sense.

The undisciplined play of this team has largely been on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't have a problem with McNair firing Kubiak. I made peace with that when he stuck Schaub in the first time. But Kubiak got us 12-4 last season, it sure as heck wasn't the talent or the defense & Kubiak was recovering from a stroke.....

Firing Wade & Marciano made more sense to me than firing Kubiak (unless Kubiak was told to do just that & he said no, which I believe is totally possible & we'll never know), then promoting Vance Joseph & seeing if he can step up and be worth keeping on the staff in some capacity (depending on what the next coach wants to do).

Heck, firing Dennison & Benton made more sense than firing Kubiak in the middle of the season.
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Old 12-17-2013   #47
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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I"m not a big fan of owners getting in front of their football staff on personnel matters. I thought he should have deferred to Rick Smith on that one, just out of respect for his GM and also not to look so Jerrah-like.

It was a very strange press conference for McNair considering the past 12 seasons.

My only hope is that they really wanted to satisfy their curiosity about Keenum. Most of us have always assumed he was a Kubiak QB, but maybe those first couple of starts and connections with AJ made them curious? Just speculating, but it's not too often you see an owner openly endorse a third string UDFA QB like that press conference.
One thing I noticed against the Colts, IMHO, Keenum was much better with Kubiak than without him. That's not endorsement for either, just something noticeable to me. I was FOR Kubiak to be gone going on 3 years, that said Kubiak was still the most O and QB knowledgeable of anyone on the Texans staff. If Bob truly was interested in Case's progress he should've have fired Gary at the ended of the year. Once again, Bob didn't think that one through.
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Old 12-17-2013   #48
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I agree that for a couple of months Bob was disappointed and upset with the direction of the season. IMHO I think it was a very bad airplane ride home that set the firing of Kubiak and the poor press conference in motion the very next morning. To me that AM press conference didn't appear to be well planned, thought out, very last minute, done in haste. Bob appeared disheveled, angry, upset, not well composed, searching, dysfunctional and a bit discombobulated. All quite out of the ordinary for Bob McNair and his carefully managed image.
Lol. The man had just fired a guy to whom he was very close, and who he thought very highly of. His grim demeanor was appropriate. I would have been more concerned had he been happy and cheerful.


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Old 12-17-2013   #49
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.
For him to announce Case will be the starting QB for the rest of the season screams knee jerk.

I thought Kubiak was safe as long as he continued to "develop" Keenum. No one could have predicted Schaub's penchant for throwing interceptions (specifically pick 6s), or Arian Foster throwing his back out, or OD going down, & they gave it the old college try at RT & it just didn't work out.

I don't think McNair "understood" Kubiak's non-committal on the starting QB question, or flat out disagreed, & I think he misread the Keenum benching (in my mind, that was to prevent him from becoming David Carr II). Keenum started the next week & would have been our starter the rest of the season, but for the way Keenum's progression stalled, you can't name him the starter. We would have had to win at least one game for it to even make sense to name Keenum the starter.

Would have made more sense if Keenum would have made "miraculous" plays to win a game, but Wade's defense carrying it's weight & protecting a lead would have worked just as well.

But Wade wasn't having none of that.
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Old 12-17-2013   #50
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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One thing I noticed against the Colts, IMHO, Keenum was much better with Kubiak than without him. That's not endorsement for either, just something noticeable to me. I was FOR Kubiak to be gone going on 3 years, that said Kubiak was still the most O and QB knowledgeable of anyone on the Texans staff. If Bob truly was interested in Case's progress he should've have fired Gary at the ended of the year. Once again, Bob didn't think that one through.
Purely conspiracy speculation, but perhaps firing the offensive brain HC and endorsing the third string UDFA as starter is a good way to almost ensure they lose out to get that no. 1 overall pick. And that's how a team can tank through FO manipulation, not asking the players themselves to give up, but just setting up a situation that all but ensures it.
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Old 12-17-2013   #51
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Firing Wade & Marciano made more sense to me than firing Kubiak (unless Kubiak was told to do just that & he said no, which I believe is totally possible & we'll never know), then promoting Vance Joseph & seeing if he can step up and be worth keeping on the staff in some capacity (depending on what the next coach wants to do).

Heck, firing Dennison & Benton made more sense than firing Kubiak in the middle of the season.
One more thing.... keeping Wade as head coach really limits our ability to see what Vance Joseph can do as he has to run everything through Wade. We know what we've got on the offensive side of the ball..... Dennison, Benton, Harris, Kirksey. They've been around for a while & though they may be good at what they do, won't be anything special.

Vance Joseph on the other hand, may be worth keeping around.
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Old 12-17-2013   #52
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Purely conspiracy speculation, but perhaps firing the offensive brain HC and endorsing the third string UDFA as starter is a good way to almost ensure they lose out to get that no. 1 overall pick. And that's how a team can tank through FO manipulation, not asking the players themselves to give up, but just setting up a situation that all but ensures it.
Keenum was highly ineffectual in JAX and Schaub did come close to pulling out a Win. Maybe that's what Bob was so angry about? They also could play a lot of younger 2nd team players to evaluate them and accomplish 2-14 that much easier. Teams out of the playoffs do it all the time.
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Old 12-17-2013   #53
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Keenum was highly ineffectual in JAX and Schaub did come close to pulling out a Win. Maybe that's what Bob was so angry about? They also could play a lot of younger 2nd team players to evaluate them and accomplish 2-14 that much easier. Teams out of the playoffs do it all the time.
They sat Aj, Ben, DeAndre early.

But not Case.
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Old 12-18-2013   #54
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.
That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.
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Old 12-18-2013   #55
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.
I agree with everything in but the not winning for 5-6 years. I think we've got the potential to make a big jump next year. I still like the talent that we've got. & if we can lean on Foster the way Seattle leaned on Lynch last year, the QB issue shouldn't hurt us too much. If handled right, or course, it could help out tremendously.
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Old 12-18-2013   #56
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Lol. The man had just fired a guy to whom he was very close, and who he thought very highly of. His grim demeanor was appropriate. I would have been more concerned had he been happy and cheerful.


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Then I would have expected Bob to be much more sad than mad and that didn't appear to be the case. The thought crossed my mind that Bob and Gary may of have words just prior to the presser and that could've been a possible reason for Bob being so angry.
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Old 12-18-2013   #57
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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I agree with everything in but the not winning for 5-6 years. I think we've got the potential to make a big jump next year. I still like the talent that we've got. & if we can lean on Foster the way Seattle leaned on Lynch last year, the QB issue shouldn't hurt us too much. If handled right, or course, it could help out tremendously.
This is something I agree with. There's more to work with here than people want to believe and I think that's because it's been a long time since we've seen positive results. It's understandable but I don't think all of those guys just suddenly hit the same wall that Schaub did. There are very real reasons for the drop-off in play for some of these guys. There are also guys who seem to have simply given up. The real question is which of those guys can be saved and brought back to playing at the level they've been capable of and that we expected them to.

It's more than people think. There will be turnover in maybe half the roster but some of the guys being written off are still very good players and can help us.
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Old 12-18-2013   #58
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.
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Old 12-18-2013   #59
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.
Well that's that accountability that we've all been talking about. Good organizations have it. Crappy ones don't.
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Old 12-18-2013   #60
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.
I always appreciate your perspective to look at the bright side of things.

Hopefully, though, they can turn this thing around within a couple of seasons. That's me being optimistic, because one thing I know after being an NFL fan for 40+ years is that nothing is guaranteed. Starting over with a new head coach and new QB always carries the risks of endless futility, and we see franchises struggle with this every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.
Hopefully, the lack of accountability and infinite patience out of loyalty are traits of Kubiak and not an institutional policy. McNair has shown these tendencies, but perhaps he is learning that they can also be a liability. Dude is not getting any younger, so the longest he should ever give a head coach is 5 years to make the playoffs. I'd say sooner, but we are talking baby steps in evolution as an owner.
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