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Old 12-17-2013   #21
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Old 12-17-2013   #22
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

It's all about luck and being in the right place and the right time.

When you look at all the teams, you see that it's cyclical.

The Colts were awesome back in the late 50's through the early 70's because they had Unitas and they had Don Shula and Weeb Ewbanks as their coaches. After a couple of bad years, they got Marchibroda and had some success... but then they crapped out and were terrible for almost 20 years until they hit on Faulk, and Manning and Mora followed by Dungy. Irsay played it smart and apparently, hit the lottery again with Luck and Pagano.

For the Steelers, it's all been about perserverance. They stuck with Noll and allowed him to work it out and build a dynasty. They let him coach until the team started to fall apart and they replaced him with Cowher. And they stuck with Cowher when a lot of teams would have fired him (consecutive losing seasons and three years with no playoffs.) Cowher took a chance and drafted Roethlisberger even though they thought they had their QB with Maddox and when Maddox went down, the Roethlisberger era started. That was some luck.

The Patriots? They were one of the powerhouse teams during the 60's but they fell on hard times. They were up and down. Berry took them to a SB but they got CRUSHED by the Bears. They were able to lure Parcells there in the 90's and he built them back up, took them to a SB, and then handed the team over to Pete Carroll... who couldn't get them back to a SB although he did a good job. They fired him and hired Belichick. Belichick had every intention of going with his future HOF QB... Bledsoe. Until Bledsoe went down and Belichick had to go with Tom Brady... and got lucky, lucky, lucky. They built that dynasty on a fluke injury and the little known "tuck rule."

The Niners were mostly suck until Bill Walsh revolutionized everything. And his first two seasons SUCKED. But what he built survived several years of Seifert and a couple of years of Mariucci. And then they went through 8 years of suck until they lucked into Harbaugh and Kaepernick.

The Ravens are the Ravens not because of the coaches or even the QBs, but because of the genius of Ozzie Newsome in getting the right players and the right coaches. There aren't very many Ozzie Newsomes out there.

You've got to luck into the right QB and the right Coach and the right FO that can all work together. And right now, we got nothing. We've got to hope that our FO can get it together and get both the right Coach and the right QB and the right QB might not be available this year.

And... it doesn't always come together in a year or two. We might have to take the lumps of letting a nascent Manning or Aikman go through a losing year while they learn the game.

And that's assuming that our FO makes the right choices. Which is going to take luck.
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Old 12-17-2013   #23
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by tedr View Post
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans...
No one wants to hear this right now, I'm sure. But I'm still impressed with how far the Texans have come in the 12 years we've been a franchise. We're sitting at the big boy table (playing in the NFL) & our organization, from the outside looking in, is as good as - if not better - than any of the franchises started in the last 15 years.

We're not perennial contenders, but I think we are well on our way. Our next coaching regime is going to play a big part of which way we go. But my money is on Bob continuing to lead this franchise in a positive direction.
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Old 12-17-2013   #24
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
Was going to point out that in my decade watching NFL I've known the packers and 49ers to be bottom feeders till relatively recently.

You don't get stability without a top end QB, you might get to the big dance though with a good enough roster (bears,cards,eagles).
The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.

Other than that, the Patriots, Packers, & Colts were the Houston Texans of the league for a long, long time before they became the Patriots, Packers, & Colts.
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Old 12-17-2013   #25
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB
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Old 12-17-2013   #26
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).
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Old 12-17-2013   #27
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).
Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?

I'm hoping that McNair is going to at some point "grow a pair" and maybe just get a little more demanding than he did with Kubiak. part of me wonders why he pulled the trigger on Capers after four seasons but let Kubiak run eight seasons. Didn't Capers start with less than Kubiak did? Didn't Capers show "progress" every year until things fell apart? I'm not arguing that Capers should have stayed just that he let Dom go after the first down year without any season to work things out or change his staff. Then he gives Gary nearly a decade, lets him swap out DC's, then when he can't figure that out for himself he goes out and gets him Wade.

It's kind of a contrasting approach if you think about it. Maybe this go round we get impatient McNair again?
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Old 12-17-2013   #28
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.
The low times for the Steelers was during the late-80's in the last days of Noll. They went 7 years with 1 playoff appearance before Cowher took over.

Under Cowher, they had a 3 year playoff drought from 98 to 2001.

They really have done a great job with being consistent over the years. Especially considering they went to the playoffs 1 time in almost 40 years at the beginning of their existence. And they were a bad team for Noll's first three years before he got them turned around.
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Old 12-17-2013   #29
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).
The Rooney Family in Pittsburgh are one of the best owners in the history of the NFL in my opinion. 3 HC, all Super Bowl winners. They have hit and missed on QBs but the ones they hit on, seem to win championships.

To them, it seems football is their life. Here, it seems football is just a hobby to McNair, just something fun to do because if it was his life, Kubiak would have never made it 8 years.
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Old 12-17-2013   #30
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

I think McNair's a good owner. I think he's an owner that wants to win. I don't mind him being patient. I prefer patience to someone who swaps out coaches every couple of years.

But I think getting the right GM, Coach, and QB is very, very difficult.
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Old 12-17-2013   #31
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Accountability.

It's not a buzz word. It's a real life, real world concept. People who aren't doing their jobs get called on it, and are asked to improve. They are given chances to improve, and management lets them improve. If the same thing happens over over and over again, steps need to be taken to somehow remove that employee from that position. It's that simple.

Pete Carroll fired his offensive coordinator in the middle of a season - and this guy was a friend of his. I'm sure that was hard for him to do, and I'm sure his friend/employee was not happy. But he had to do what was best for the overall organization, and not for individuals (McNair's comments at the press conference were spot on regarding this). And, guess where the Seahawks franchise is these days?

This teams lack of accountability has finally caught up to them.
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Old 12-17-2013   #32
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?

I'm hoping that McNair is going to at some point "grow a pair" and maybe just get a little more demanding than he did with Kubiak. part of me wonders why he pulled the trigger on Capers after four seasons but let Kubiak run eight seasons. Didn't Capers start with less than Kubiak did? Didn't Capers show "progress" every year until things fell apart? I'm not arguing that Capers should have stayed just that he let Dom go after the first down year without any season to work things out or change his staff. Then he gives Gary nearly a decade, lets him swap out DC's, then when he can't figure that out for himself he goes out and gets him Wade.

It's kind of a contrasting approach if you think about it. Maybe this go round we get impatient McNair again?
Yep. I think McNair has changed.

When he was quiet for two months, everyone was saying, "Where's Bob McNair? Why hasn't he said anything about this mess?" I remember saying to a buddy of mine: "McNair is quiet because he's pissed. When he finally opens his mouth to address all of this, all hell is going to break lose."

And it did.

I watched that press conference twice. I was shocked by how angry and frustrated McNair seemed. Yeah, he was upset at having just fired a good friend and colleague. But I also got a sense of sheer anger and impatience from him. He was direct, blunt and did not pull any punches. It seemed like a different McNair.

Let's hope it sticks, because the country club culture surrounding this team has got to GO.
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Old 12-17-2013   #33
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Man, there are so many tangible and intangible things that permeate great organizations.

First is an owner who gets it. He needs to know how to pick a good GM and good head coach, and knows when to apply pressure and when to let them run the show.

And obviously the staff below them. Scouting department to constantly and consistently bring fresh talent to the team, a training staff that knows how to maximize player potential, minimize injuries, and rehabilitate the injured, and of course, coordinators and position coaches that are effective in implementing schemes and weekly plans that play to the team's strengths.

Then the players. QB is the position that has to have 'the man'. And this may be the hardest part of all, because you never truly find out what a QB is all about until you've built a playoff team and see how he does in the pressure cooker of the post-season.

And obviously the rest of the positions have importance, depending on the kind of team being built and how much the rest of the team needs to make up for the QB. An elite QB can elevate everyone else and cover up a team's weaknesses to some extent. And this doesn't even bring up team chemistry and those intangibles like leadership, "luck" (or rather the ability to take advantage of other team's mistakes), and the perceptions of players about the franchise.

On a 1 to 10 scale of greatness, the Texans are about 0.25 right now without a head coach and without a starting QB on the roster. And I only grant them a 0.25 because of about 4-5 great players on the team.
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Old 12-17-2013   #34
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

Win.

That's it. They win.
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Old 12-17-2013   #35
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

There is one key that encompasses all other personnel issues and always sets great teams apart: a competent general manager who's in charge of all operations and an owner(s) who lets his GM run things and doesn't override him.
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Old 12-17-2013   #36
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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There is one key that encompasses all other personnel issues and always sets great teams apart: a competent general manager who's in charge of all operations and an owner(s) who lets his GM run things and doesn't override him.
cough Patriots cough
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Old 12-17-2013   #37
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

I don't know, Houston Football has never seen one... ask the Dynamo how they do it
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Old 12-17-2013   #38
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Default Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

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Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?
I do and I think McNair lost his cool and is overreacting.

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Yep. I think McNair has changed.

I watched that press conference twice. I was shocked by how angry and frustrated McNair seemed. Yeah, he was upset at having just fired a good friend and colleague. But I also got a sense of sheer anger and impatience from him. He was direct, blunt and did not pull any punches. It seemed like a different McNair.
That's what I saw. McNair was also befuddled, confused and extremely reactionary. The PC was more than just Kubiak, McNair had been festering for a while. IMHO I think it goes back to draft and Sam Montgomery. I think McNair was blindsided and embarrassed as to why most Teams had Montgomery off their board and the Texans had no clue. This certainly explains front office comments to Ian Rapoport about coaches having to much say so on draft picks. Yet at the PC McNair says this team has the talent to be in the Super Bowl. The two statements don't jive and show confusion and dysfunction in the FO starting at the very top.

You have that along with the discombobulation of explaining losing two to Jacksonville. Bob bemoans we lost two to the Jags then continues his bellyaching because Kubiak benched Keenum who had no chance of winning for Schaub who did and then declares Case his starting QB. It has definitely become clear that McNair is not thinking clearly, his judgement is clouded, he's overreacting and any logic is skewed. McNair painted himself in a corner with his limited parameters for a Head Coach which tells me McNair already has an idea who his next HC will be. Why not simply say, we are looking for the best HC available and will leave no stone unturned until we find him? McNair has lost his ability to think things through. Then again he may never of had that ability. I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.

Last edited by Texian; 12-17-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013   #39
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I do and I think McNair lost his cool and is overreacting.



That's what I saw. McNair was also befuddled, confused and extremely reactionary. The PC was more than just Kubiak, McNair had been festering for a while. IMHO I think it goes back to draft and Sam Montgomery. I think McNair was blindsided and embarrassed as to why most Teams had Montgomery off their board and the Texans had no clue. This certainly explains front office comments to Ian Rapoport about coaches having to much say so on draft picks. Yet at the PC McNair says this team has the talent to be in the Super Bowl. The two statements don't jive and show confusion and dysfunction in the FO starting at the very top.

You have that along with the discombobulation of explaining losing two to Jacksonville. Bob bemoans we lost two to the Jags then continues his bellyaching because Kubiak benched Keenum who had no chance of winning for Schaub who did and then declares Case his starting QB. It has definitely become clear that McNair is not thinking clearly, his judgement is clouded, he's overreacting and any logic is skewed. McNair painted himself in a corner with his limited parameters for a Head Coach which tells me McNair already has an idea who his next HC will be. Why not simply say, we are looking for the best HC available and will leave no stone unturned until we find him? McNair has lost his ability to think things through. Then again he may never of had that ability. I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.
Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?


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Old 12-17-2013   #40
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I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.
The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.
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