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Old 12-16-2013   #1021
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Default Re: Manziel

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Strengths

He's an incredible competitor: When I've talked to coaches about Manziel, particularly the ones who've had to face him, what you hear first isn't about the incredible plays, the improvising or the athleticism and ability to make plays after the play design has fallen apart. They first zero in on his competitiveness and his will. For all the off-field questions that popped up during the summer, what Manziel brought on Saturdays as a competitor can't be questioned, and that resonates.

There's no such thing as a prototype: Manziel often gets compared to Russell Wilson, but a lot of that is just based on height and improvisational skills. And while there's something to be said for those traits, when Wilson was drafted I said he'd be a great test case for what the NFL has viewed as the ideal look of a quarterback. Wilson has succeeded because he's an exceptional player, but also because the Seahawks look for ways to maximize his skills, allowing him to beat defenses with his arm and his legs. Precedent has been set. Coaches seem to have a better sense now of how to do more to allow quarterbacks with various skills succeed, and Manziel should benefit.

Improvising is an NFL skill, too: Wilson is a great improviser -- but so is Peyton Manning, so is Tom Brady, so is Aaron Rodgers. The best quarterbacks are all great improvisers because improvising isn't just about running around, it's first about seeing the whole field, using your feet inside and outside the pocket to extend plays and having the football sense to adjust when plans go awry. Manziel has been a master at the college level, but credit his eyes and his understanding of where the opportunities are, not just his ability to run around. It's a skill he can use on Sundays, too.

Arm strength can improve: Manziel doesn't have a great arm, but he has an adequate one, and he can improve his ability to drive the ball through better mechanics. Manziel doesn't do a great job yet of getting his feet under him to make throws, particularly the intermediate and deep throws that he'll need to make to succeed in the NFL, where you have to stretch defenses or at least keep that threat constant. We've seen many QBs find more velocity as they become more consistent with mechanics, and Manziel can, too.

Questions

Make the pocket your friend: Manziel is a great improviser, but he's often too quick to use his feet not to maneuver in the pocket, but to exit it completely and get out in space. Good passing offenses thrive on timing, and making throws within the rhythm of the play, and if Manziel wants to be great, he'll need to do a better job of using his athleticism and instincts to navigate the tight quarters and throw on time.

The help: At Texas A&M, Manziel has had one of the better bail-out targets in all of college football in Mike Evans. Throw it up to the 6-foot-5 Evans, and what we'd normally call 50-50 balls can often turn into big plays. Texas A&M hasn't been completely loaded, but Manziel has had very good blocking (particularly at tackle), and has gone into many games knowing he was surrounded by superior talent. In the NFL, the difference between the best team and the worst team is typically much closer than the difference between even the best and worst teams in the SEC. He'll need to elevate his game, because huge advantages will disappear.

Dealing with failure ... and waiting: The Aggies have lost some games, but Manziel really hasn't dealt with much failure at the college level. Not only that, he's been a starter since he won the job in camp as a redshirt freshman. We don't yet know how he'll react to a string of rough games, and we don't yet know how he'll react to waiting in line, which could certainly happen.

Face of the franchise: From all I know, Manziel has been a great teammate and is an unquestioned leader on game day and on the practice field. But we know the scrutiny as a starting NFL quarterback extends far beyond the field to dealing with the spotlight, the media requirements, the standards you have to uphold as an endorser of a franchise or in the commercial space. Those are all now a huge part of the game. He has to graduate from a ballplayer to a well-compensated brand name. It'll demand maturity.

Where he stands

I've had Manziel ranked between 10 and 20 on my Big Board for a while now, and he's currently No. 2 among quarterbacks overall, behind Teddy Bridgewater. That puts him squarely in the first round based on my projections. Given the number of teams that need a quarterback, if he performs well during the draft evaluation process -- namely the combine, pro days and in interviewing with and working out for teams -- it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him go inside the top 10, where I see four teams that should be taking a close look at quarterbacks.
http://es.pn/1hXabzW
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Old 12-16-2013   #1022
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Default Re: Manziel

In the Manziel thread I have learned that Manziel's inconsistent mechanics are a pro because they can be improved. I have also learned that his injury history is a pro because it shows that he is tough.

In the Bridgewater thread I have learned that Bridgewater's inconsistent mechanics are a con because they are inconsistent. I have also learned that his injury history is a con because it shows that he isn't durable.

There are pros and cons for all of the QBs in this draft. But it is funny to see how we can all see the same player and interpret strengths and weaknesses in many ways, and depending on how we feel about that player can sometimes affect how we see other players. This same phenomenon seems to have made it's way to the Keenum threads as well quite some time ago.
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Old 12-16-2013   #1023
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
In the Manziel thread I have learned that Manziel's inconsistent mechanics are a pro because they can be improved. I have also learned that his injury history is a pro because it shows that he is tough.

In the Bridgewater thread I have learned that Bridgewater's inconsistent mechanics are a con because they are inconsistent. I have also learned that his injury history is a con because it shows that he isn't durable.
Ha!, well played.
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Old 12-16-2013   #1024
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Default Re: Manziel

If the Texans draft clowney and somehow trade up to get Manziel then i'de be a very happy camper. I'll take Manziel over Bridgewater any day. I don't know why but i feel like he's going great NFL QB. Like the article says, you can't teach improvisation skills
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Old 12-16-2013   #1025
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
In the Manziel thread I have learned that Manziel's inconsistent mechanics are a pro because they can be improved. I have also learned that his injury history is a pro because it shows that he is tough.

In the Bridgewater thread I have learned that Bridgewater's inconsistent mechanics are a con because they are inconsistent. I have also learned that his injury history is a con because it shows that he isn't durable.

There are pros and cons for all of the QBs in this draft. But it is funny to see how we can all see the same player and interpret strengths and weaknesses in many ways, and depending on how we feel about that player can sometimes affect how we see other players. This same phenomenon seems to have made it's way to the Keenum threads as well quite some time ago.
Yep ... if your kid knocks somebody down he's feisty . If the other kid knocks your kid down he's dirty .
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Old 12-16-2013   #1026
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by texanchris View Post
If the Texans draft clowney and somehow trade up to get Manziel then i'de be a very happy camper. I'll take Manziel over Bridgewater any day. I don't know why but i feel like he's going great NFL QB. Like the article says, you can't teach improvisation skills
Bridgewater has exceptional improvisation skills as well problem is everyone around here & understandably so, have more familiarity with Manziel. Trust me though Teddy is no slouch difference is he uses his legs more to extend plays by passing not running but he can fly when he needs to.
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Old 12-16-2013   #1027
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by texanchris View Post
If the Texans draft clowney and somehow trade up to get Manziel then i'de be a very happy camper. I'll take Manziel over Bridgewater any day. I don't know why but i feel like he's going great NFL QB. Like the article says, you can't teach improvisation skills
Improvisational skills are the most overated skill for a qb to posess....right up there with mobility.
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Old 12-16-2013   #1028
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Bridgewater has exceptional improvisation skills as well problem is everyone around here & understandably so, have more familiarity with Manziel. Trust me though Teddy is no slouch difference is he uses his legs more to extend plays by passing not running but he can fly when he needs to.
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Old 12-16-2013   #1029
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by texanchris View Post
If the Texans draft clowney and somehow trade up to get Manziel then i'de be a very happy camper. I'll take Manziel over Bridgewater any day. I don't know why but i feel like he's going great NFL QB. Like the article says, you can't teach improvisation skills
I haven't heard scouts saying he's the #1 pick but when i watch him i want him on my team cuz i don't think he can fail.... we need a qb i would honestly take him early
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Old 12-17-2013   #1030
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
In the Manziel thread I have learned that Manziel's inconsistent mechanics are a pro because they can be improved. I have also learned that his injury history is a pro because it shows that he is tough.

In the Bridgewater thread I have learned that Bridgewater's inconsistent mechanics are a con because they are inconsistent. I have also learned that his injury history is a con because it shows that he isn't durable.

There are pros and cons for all of the QBs in this draft. But it is funny to see how we can all see the same player and interpret strengths and weaknesses in many ways, and depending on how we feel about that player can sometimes affect how we see other players. This same phenomenon seems to have made it's way to the Keenum threads as well quite some time ago.
I would take Manziel over Bridgewater. I believe that both QB's are equal in talent but the divider being mental fortitude. You have one QB (Bridgewater) hemming and hawing about coming out even though he is the #1 QB on the board. The other who knows he is ready for bigger and better things and knows exactly what he wants.

I am also amused that Manziel goes to a Texas frat party. That shows real testicular fortitude.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1031
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I would take Manziel over Bridgewater. I believe that both QB's are equal in talent but the divider being mental fortitude. You have one QB (Bridgewater) hemming and hawing about coming out even though he is the #1 QB on the board. The other who knows he is ready for bigger and better things and knows exactly what he wants.

I am also amused that Manziel goes to a Texas frat party. That shows real testicular fortitude.
We'll just have to disagree. Bridgewater does have a few legitimate concerns but that is not one.

First, I don't think they are equal in talent. Manziel is a better college player, but Bridgewater's skills translate better to the NFL, IMO.

Second, Andrew Luck was the #1 QB on the board after his redshirt sophomore season and he went back to school for another year. I don't remember his mental fortitude being questioned over that decision. Perhaps Bridgewater is being pressured to return by his coaches or his parents, and so therefore is exploring his options? As for Manziel, knowing what you want and being able to attain it are two different things. Every year the draft is littered with guys who left school early because they were ready for bigger and better things. Just because you want it does not mean that you will get it.

Third, if going to a party at a rival school has any impact on how a prospect is graded, then the grading process is flawed.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1032
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I would take Manziel over Bridgewater. I believe that both QB's are equal in talent but the divider being mental fortitude. You have one QB (Bridgewater) hemming and hawing about coming out even though he is the #1 QB on the board. The other who knows he is ready for bigger and better things and knows exactly what he wants.

I am also amused that Manziel goes to a Texas frat party. That shows real testicular fortitude.
Quote:
ďIíve been hearing all these stories that Iíve made a decision ó I havenít made a decision,Ē Bridgewater said Monday, according to ESPN.comís Brett McMurphy. ďI will talk to my mom and the coaches before making my decision. Iím not leaning either way.Ē
http://tracking.si.com/2013/12/16/te...ecided-return/

That's "hemming and hawing"? The guy is taking his time, and he still has a bowl game to play. Nothing wrong with waiting on making a life changing decision, the combine isn't until March. Even more info on his decision here: http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nfl-draftLink.

For comparison, Andrew Luck did not announce he was staying in school for his senior year until after his bowl game in January 2011.

And just an FYI, since you don't seem to bother researching stuff before posting, Manziel hasn't actually declared for the NFL draft yet. He has alluded to it, but hasn't said he will actually be in draft. Apparently he's concerned about his projected draft position. On a related note, Mike Evans hasn't declared either.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1033
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
We'll just have to disagree. Bridgewater does have a few legitimate concerns but that is not one.

First, I don't think they are equal in talent. Manziel is a better college player, but Bridgewater's skills translate better to the NFL, IMO.

Second, Andrew Luck was the #1 QB on the board after his redshirt sophomore season and he went back to school for another year. I don't remember his mental fortitude being questioned over that decision. Perhaps Bridgewater is being pressured to return by his coaches or his parents, and so therefore is exploring his options? As for Manziel, knowing what you want and being able to attain it are two different things. Every year the draft is littered with guys who left school early because they were ready for bigger and better things. Just because you want it does not mean that you will get it.

Third, if going to a party at a rival school has any impact on how a prospect is graded, then the grading process is flawed.
The third thing is just my own personal like, not really something that you would grade on.

As a fan, for me, I like Manziel. Not overly passionate about either one though.

I would be more excited to see us draft Jake Matthews because championships are built on the back of offensive linemen.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1034
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
The third thing is just my own personal like, not really something that you would grade on.

As a fan, for me, I like Manziel. Not overly passionate about either one though.

I would be more excited to see us draft Jake Matthews because championships are built on the back of offensive linemen.
Maybe if Mathews is Orlando Pace .

To me you pay Brown a ton of money . You draft Mathews #1 and now you have some serious money at the OTs position . This is what's wrong with the Texans now , no money for depth .
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Old 12-17-2013   #1035
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Maybe if Mathews is Orlando Pace .

To me you pay Brown a ton of money . You draft Mathews #1 and now you have some serious money at the OTs position . This is what's wrong with the Texans now , no money for depth .
Matthews is spelled with two, count them, two, T's. I should know that is my last name. Those who spell with one T are cheap Chinese made aftermarket Matthews' not to be confused with those of us who are certified genuine real Matthews.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1036
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Matthews is spelled with two, count them, two, T's. I should know that is my last name. Those who spell with one T are cheap Chinese made aftermarket Matthews' not to be confused with those of us who are certified genuine real Matthews.
You like Mahews ?
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Old 12-17-2013   #1037
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You like Mahews ?
Now that's funny.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1038
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Now that's funny.
Back to the subject at hand , I think you have to take the guy who will earn his money . They had to cut Winston because he made too much money for his production at RT . Of course they have come close to replacing him .
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Old 12-17-2013   #1039
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Maybe if Mathews is Orlando Pace .

To me you pay Brown a ton of money . You draft Mathews #1 and now you have some serious money at the OTs position . This is what's wrong with the Texans now , no money for depth .
You could also argue that as the league continually moves toward a more passing prevalent league, having two quality tackles is a nice idea.

I like the idea of taking Matthews at #1, but we do need a pass rusher and a quarterback desperately.
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Old 12-17-2013   #1040
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You could also argue that as the league continually moves toward a more passing prevalent league, having two quality tackles is a nice idea.

I like the idea of taking Matthews at #1, but we do need a pass rusher and a quarterback desperately.
The two teams off the top my head that have two 1st rd OTs are the 49ers and Chiefs . I'll have to see where they saved money .
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A little about Colleen. She's the brains behind the operation. Magna cum laude from BC, top five in her law school class, so obviously I have a pretty good idea how to recruit, I can tell you that.
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