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Old 12-06-2013   #1021
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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That's the part that scares me about all this...there's still this lingering thought that Case can be a starter...i just don't see it.
And if he's not he'll show it and they'll draft a QB very high. I kind of hate to predict anything right now until I know who the new head coach is.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1022
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Gotta keep those UH alumni in the seats for the last home game.
well i'm UH alum & if that's his aim, he's ****ing up....the verdict on whether or not Keenum is the future is already 85% in & the results are at best mixed. That alone should be enough for us to spend a high pick on a qb in the draft.

I doubt Keenum does anything in this last 15% of the season remotely close to what he needs to do to solidify himself as the future of this team @ qb.

You're right though, at this point rolling Keenum out there is doing nothing but trying to appease UH alumni.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1023
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

The dude hasn't progressed the past 6-7 games with a "quarterback guru" for a coach. How can anyone expect him to do better with Dennison and Dorel?

Oh well, might as well make sure I guess.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1024
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
The dude hasn't progressed the past 6-7 games with a "quarterback guru" for a coach. How can anyone expect him to do better with Dennison and Dorel?

Oh well, might as well make sure I guess.
Well, there's at least one person in McNair who thinks that Kubiak has not facilitated the evaluation and/or development of Keenum. So we get the final three games to see what differences show up. We said he should get ten games at the beginning, so no sense rushing to judgment before those ten games.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1025
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
The dude hasn't progressed the past 6-7 games with a "quarterback guru" for a coach. How can anyone expect him to do better with Dennison and Dorel?

Oh well, might as well make sure I guess.
We already saw what he looked like under Dennison & Dorel when Kubiak went out with the stroke....
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Old 12-06-2013   #1026
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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At this point it doesn't matter anyway. McNair said they are going to start Case the last three games so they can make a decision on him. I think that's the correct thing to do. Schaub is out, Yates isn't starter material, so they have to find out whether Case is or not. It will most certainly affect the draft.
So, how did you or anyone come up with yates isn't starter material,yet wanna see more of keenum? How can you or anyone determine this on the rose colored logic? Say what u will and missing andre for most of his starts, tj knew where to go with the ball. We never saw 20 yd retreat sacks either. Again, he walked in a hostile cincy with the playoffs on the line,with little time and won that game. Don't forget the atlanta game and the playoff win. Yet, we need to see what case have? Yeah,right.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1027
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You know Wade will be showcasing his style the last 3 weeks in hope of wining the job permanent. I wonder if he changes up the game for Case, this might get interesting.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1028
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
So, how did you or anyone come up with yates isn't starter material,yet wanna see more of keenum? How can you or anyone determine this on the rose colored logic? Say what u will and missing andre for most of his starts, tj knew where to go with the ball. We never saw 20 yd retreat sacks either. Again, he walked in a hostile cincy with the playoffs on the line,with little time and won that game. Don't forget the atlanta game and the playoff win. Yet, we need to see what case have? Yeah,right.
Even if you are right, and I don't think you are, it doesn't matter. Uncle Bob wants to see Case play and that's the bottom line. Either Case is the starter next year or they draft a QB or pick up someone. Either way Yates isn't going to be the starter next year. And maybe Case isn't either. We'll see.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1029
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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We already saw what he looked like under Dennison & Dorel when Kubiak went out with the stroke....
I know. I posted numbers the other day showing Keenum with and without Kubiak.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1030
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
So, how did you or anyone come up with yates isn't starter material,yet wanna see more of keenum? How can you or anyone determine this on the rose colored logic? Say what u will and missing andre for most of his starts, tj knew where to go with the ball. We never saw 20 yd retreat sacks either. Again, he walked in a hostile cincy with the playoffs on the line,with little time and won that game. Don't forget the atlanta game and the playoff win. Yet, we need to see what case have? Yeah,right.
I wanted Keenum to get a CHANCE to show what he could do. My opinion after 3-4 games was that if he continued like that (see Nick Foles) then you go into next season with him at starter and get some vet, mid round draft pick for competition. He hasn't continued so I'm on the draft a QB with a high pick bandwagon.

As for Yates...he hasn't done anything that makes you think he'd be more than a game managing back up. He, like Keenum, had something that caused him to be drafted low. He would have to do something special to change people's minds. He didn't "win" any games. The defense was playing at Superbowl levels and Foster was playing really good - he just didn't mess up too bad. He scored no more than 20 ppg and had 3 TDs 3 INTs with 3 lost fumbles in the regular season. He had 159 yards and a TD in the playoff win vs the Bengals. I won't bring up the Ravens game stats. He looked no better than Keenum in this preseason. When he was given a chance this season (yeah he had no prep & came off the bench) he blew his chance. He is a a less talented QB than Schaub with more foot speed.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1031
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
The dude [Keenum] hasn't progressed the past 6-7 games with a "quarterback guru" for a coach. How can anyone expect him to do better with Dennison and Dorel?
Except that all the adjectives that have described Kubiak as a "Quarterback Guru" and "Offensive Genius," are all based upon Gary's archaic, outmoded, backup quarterback mentality, so that honorifics of this sort no longer apply to him. At one time, yes! In 2013 the game has passed him by; consequently, Gary's myopia has extended to Case Keenum, TJ Yates, and yes, even to Matt Schaub, and it has shown in their gameplay and predictability, all predicated on Kubiak's "teaching."

I am sincerely convinced that the regression of TJ Yates and now Case Keenum, is not wholly, but in part attributed to young men buying into old concepts. The talent of the man throwing the football is of course a major factor, but we've all seen two guys come in and light it up like gangbusters, only to regress the more they are inoculated into the system.

There is also no doubt that opposing teams having game film on Keenum has contributed to Case's regression; still, game film primarily identifies tendencies that can be exploited. But every QB that has ever played has tendencies - and even the best QBs fall prey to their shortcomings, either by means of human error or an opposing team/coach/player being that good at exposing you. Some tendencies can be corrected. Some cannot. Whatever the case, it's a process...and anyone who's ever done any self-work on themselves knows it doesn't happen overnight.

The tendencies of the player, however, does not dictate constant 7-step drops, coupled with long developing routes, with a blitz in your grill nearly ever 3rd down. These errors in coaching create artificial tendencies - yet tendencies, nonetheless - that retard growth and lose games.

Bless his heart, but Gary Kubiak was the perfect self-scratching itch.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1032
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

Yates didn't screw up that much, except when he did in the most crucial time----against Baltimore in the playoffs.

Ugh.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1033
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

I question Kubiak using his "quarterback guru" powers to their full potential on Keenum. If he had, he wouldn't have pulled case the second time. He may have put some effort into Keenum, but Kubiak is the type of guy that is a slave to familiarity and put in Schaub. Loyalty, familiarity, whatever you want to call it Keenum was always an after thought when possibly the higher ups wanted and told Kubiak to play Keenum over Schaub. You can see from today's press conference that McNair wants to see Keenum play.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1034
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

I wonder why Case is throwing 3 feet behind receivers on 5 yard plays. I don't think I've ever miss so many easy passes even watching him in college. I don't know if he's lost all confidence or what but last night he did not look good.

The guy can throw it accurately 20+ yards but can't throw it 5-10 yards. Weird...
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Old 12-06-2013   #1035
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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I wonder why Case is throwing 3 feet behind receivers on 5 yard plays. I don't think I've ever miss so many easy passes even watching him in college. I don't know if he's lost all confidence or what but last night he did not look good.

The guy can throw it accurately 20+ yards but can't throw it 5-10 yards. Weird...
Because he's throwing to a spot where he thinks the receivers will be, and they are not on the same page.

TK alluded to this on the other thread and I'm in complete agreement with it. If they take a QB high in the draft, Keenum will NOT be the starter next year, no matter how good Keenum will be in training camp, and no matter how bad the high priced rookie is. It will still be the high dollar draft pick vs. the undrafted free agent, and we all know how that cookie crumbles.

We're gonna have a Rivers/Brees situation, and in my view, Keenum will go to another team and shine, just like all the other players we let go.

I'm very pessimistic how this shakes out.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1036
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
Except that all the adjectives that have described Kubiak as a "Quarterback Guru" and "Offensive Genius," are all based upon Gary's archaic, outmoded, backup quarterback mentality, so that honorifics of this sort no longer apply to him. At one time, yes! In 2013 the game has passed him by; consequently, Gary's myopia has extended to Case Keenum, TJ Yates, and yes, even to Matt Schaub, and it has shown in their gameplay and predictability, all predicated on Kubiak's "teaching."

I am sincerely convinced that the regression of TJ Yates and now Case Keenum, is not wholly, but in part attributed to young men buying into old concepts. The talent of the man throwing the football is of course a major factor, but we've all seen two guys come in and light it up like gangbusters, only to regress the more they are inoculated into the system.

There is also no doubt that opposing teams having game film on Keenum has contributed to Case's regression; still, game film primarily identifies tendencies that can be exploited. But every QB that has ever played has tendencies - and even the best QBs fall prey to their shortcomings, either by means of human error or an opposing team/coach/player being that good at exposing you. Some tendencies can be corrected. Some cannot. Whatever the case, it's a process...and anyone who's ever done any self-work on themselves knows it doesn't happen overnight.

The tendencies of the player, however, does not dictate constant 7-step drops, coupled with long developing routes, with a blitz in your grill nearly ever 3rd down. These errors in coaching create artificial tendencies - yet tendencies, nonetheless - that retard growth and lose games.

Bless his heart, but Gary Kubiak was the perfect self-scratching itch.
I hear ya & mostly agree with everything except a few points. Good qbs don't let you corner them into 1 tendency or another & it doesn't matter what defenses are trying to do to you....That's one thing that you see early on with good qbs. It might give the defense a better chance to win by taking away a big tendency that that qb has, but ultimately, that qb can make you pay another way....that isn't the case with Schaub...and/or now Keenum.
Case's tendencies have been born out of the things he does best (spread the defense out & throw it deep) & when those things were largely taken away from him he did not adjust well.

The HC & QB need their skills to mesh together on offense to hammer out something both are comfortable with. It's a pretty involved process & it's made easier when you've got a stud, but it's something that needs to happen. So i don't think it was so much about Gary's archaic mentality about offense or qb development as it is/was about Keenum's ability to meet him half way in developing a viable, sustainable offense. We can literally see kubiak's efforts to mesh the offense with Keenum's skill set through the pistol formation, the zone read, the qb keepers plays.......we never saw much, if any of that before Case.

That's why I got so tired of people in here blathering about how Kubiak wasn't letting "case be case" or claiming that Kubiak was trying to turn Case into Schaub..couldn't have been further from the truth imo. What Kubiak was trying to do when he had Case under center & running other "schaub-like" plays was trying to incorporate some "normal" aspects of his offense that could help offset some of the things defenses were doing to Case. He knew you couldn't sustain an NFL offense doing only the things Keenum feels most comfortable. It probably wasn't enough TBH...At some point you've got to settle into something much more comprehensive & viable...

Last night showed this perfectly. The offense looked stagnant with Keenum most of the night, but Schaub comes in & we're moving the ball up & down the field like it's nothing. But b/c all people heard was Mayock saying "uptempo" they automatically think "oh why doesn't he do that with keenum, he did it so well at UH" Well, if keenum wasn't good at running the plays in the uptempo package, then it doesn't matter if it's uptempo or not..
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Old 12-06-2013   #1037
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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I hear ya & mostly agree with everything except a few points. Good qbs don't let you corner them into 1 tendency or another & it doesn't matter what defenses are trying to do to you....That's one thing that you see early on with good qbs. It might give the defense a better chance to win by taking away a big tendency that that qb has, but ultimately, that qb can make you pay another way....that isn't the case with Schaub...and/or now Keenum.
Case's tendencies have been born out of the things he does best (spread the defense out & throw it deep) & when those things were largely taken away from him he did not adjust well.

The HC & QB need their skills to mesh together on offense to hammer out something both are comfortable with. It's a pretty involved process & it's made easier when you've got a stud, but it's something that needs to happen. So i don't think it was so much about Gary's archaic mentality about offense or qb development as it is/was about Keenum's ability to meet him half way in developing a viable, sustainable offense. We can literally see kubiak's efforts to mesh the offense with Keenum's skill set through the pistol formation, the zone read, the qb keepers plays.......we never saw much, if any of that before Case.

That's why I got so tired of people in here blathering about how Kubiak wasn't letting "case be case" or claiming that Kubiak was trying to turn Case into Schaub..couldn't have been further from the truth imo. What Kubiak was trying to do when he had Case under center & running other "schaub-like" plays was trying to incorporate some "normal" aspects of his offense that could help offset some of the things defenses were doing to Case. He knew you couldn't sustain an NFL offense doing only the things Keenum feels most comfortable. It probably wasn't enough TBH...At some point you've got to settle into something much more comprehensive & viable...

Last night showed this perfectly. The offense looked stagnant with Keenum most of the night, but Schaub comes in & we're moving the ball up & down the field like it's nothing. But b/c all people heard was Mayock saying "uptempo" they automatically think "oh why doesn't he do that with keenum, he did it so well at UH" Well, if keenum wasn't good at running the plays in the uptempo package, then it doesn't matter if it's uptempo or not..
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Old 12-06-2013   #1038
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

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Because he's throwing to a spot where he thinks the receivers will be, and they are not on the same page.

TK alluded to this on the other thread and I'm in complete agreement with it. If they take a QB high in the draft, Keenum will NOT be the starter next year, no matter how good Keenum will be in training camp, and no matter how bad the high priced rookie is. It will still be the high dollar draft pick vs. the undrafted free agent, and we all know how that cookie crumbles.

We're gonna have a Rivers/Brees situation, and in my view, Keenum will go to another team and shine, just like all the other players we let go.

I'm very pessimistic how this shakes out.
This could turn out to be true...

...however....let's just consider another possibility...

...perhaps there is a reason why Case is an UDFA that sat on the Texans practice squad for a entire season and no interest was ever shown in him by 31 other teams? Maybe we fans are missing something that professional coaches and scouts in the NFL see in evaluating him?

I'm just sayin', there could always be the other side, y'know?

And while I know it's become a situation of comparing Keenum to other vertically challenged QBs, we also have to consider those QBs showed enough to get drafted. Brees in the 2nd round and Wilson in the 3rd. Obviously, draft position is not the be all / end all, but certainly QBs are extensively scrutinized and analyzed by the NFL machine in today's day and age, more than any other position all things considered.

I'm not saying Keenum cannot or will not, but big picture here, a lot of our hopes and perceptions are not aligned with the reality.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1039
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I hear ya & mostly agree with everything except a few points. Good qbs don't let you corner them into 1 tendency or another & it doesn't matter what defenses are trying to do to you....That's one thing that you see early on with good qbs. It might give the defense a better chance to win by taking away a big tendency that that qb has, but ultimately, that qb can make you pay another way....that isn't the case with Schaub...and/or now Keenum.
Case's tendencies have been born out of the things he does best (spread the defense out & throw it deep) & when those things were largely taken away from him he did not adjust well.

The HC & QB need their skills to mesh together on offense to hammer out something both are comfortable with. It's a pretty involved process & it's made easier when you've got a stud, but it's something that needs to happen. So i don't think it was so much about Gary's archaic mentality about offense or qb development as it is/was about Keenum's ability to meet him half way in developing a viable, sustainable offense. We can literally see kubiak's efforts to mesh the offense with Keenum's skill set through the pistol formation, the zone read, the qb keepers plays.......we never saw much, if any of that before Case.

That's why I got so tired of people in here blathering about how Kubiak wasn't letting "case be case" or claiming that Kubiak was trying to turn Case into Schaub..couldn't have been further from the truth imo. What Kubiak was trying to do when he had Case under center & running other "schaub-like" plays was trying to incorporate some "normal" aspects of his offense that could help offset some of the things defenses were doing to Case. He knew you couldn't sustain an NFL offense doing only the things Keenum feels most comfortable. It probably wasn't enough TBH...At some point you've got to settle into something much more comprehensive & viable...

Last night showed this perfectly. The offense looked stagnant with Keenum most of the night, but Schaub comes in & we're moving the ball up & down the field like it's nothing. But b/c all people heard was Mayock saying "uptempo" they automatically think "oh why doesn't he do that with keenum, he did it so well at UH" Well, if keenum wasn't good at running the plays in the uptempo package, then it doesn't matter if it's uptempo or not..
This x1000. Perfect response.
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Old 12-06-2013   #1040
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Default Re: All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I hear ya & mostly agree with everything except a few points. Good qbs don't let you corner them into 1 tendency or another & it doesn't matter what defenses are trying to do to you....That's one thing that you see early on with good qbs. It might give the defense a better chance to win by taking away a big tendency that that qb has, but ultimately, that qb can make you pay another way....that isn't the case with Schaub...and/or now Keenum.
Case's tendencies have been born out of the things he does best (spread the defense out & throw it deep) & when those things were largely taken away from him he did not adjust well.

The HC & QB need their skills to mesh together on offense to hammer out something both are comfortable with. It's a pretty involved process & it's made easier when you've got a stud, but it's something that needs to happen. So i don't think it was so much about Gary's archaic mentality about offense or qb development as it is/was about Keenum's ability to meet him half way in developing a viable, sustainable offense. We can literally see kubiak's efforts to mesh the offense with Keenum's skill set through the pistol formation, the zone read, the qb keepers plays.......we never saw much, if any of that before Case.

That's why I got so tired of people in here blathering about how Kubiak wasn't letting "case be case" or claiming that Kubiak was trying to turn Case into Schaub..couldn't have been further from the truth imo. What Kubiak was trying to do when he had Case under center & running other "schaub-like" plays was trying to incorporate some "normal" aspects of his offense that could help offset some of the things defenses were doing to Case. He knew you couldn't sustain an NFL offense doing only the things Keenum feels most comfortable. It probably wasn't enough TBH...At some point you've got to settle into something much more comprehensive & viable...

Last night showed this perfectly. The offense looked stagnant with Keenum most of the night, but Schaub comes in & we're moving the ball up & down the field like it's nothing. But b/c all people heard was Mayock saying "uptempo" they automatically think "oh why doesn't he do that with keenum, he did it so well at UH" Well, if keenum wasn't good at running the plays in the uptempo package, then it doesn't matter if it's uptempo or not..


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