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View Poll Results: Do you think McNair WILL, not SHOULD, fire Kubiak?
Yes 101 75.94%
NO 32 24.06%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2013   #81
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I'm guessing that doesn't cover the suites?
It doesn't include the down cost of PSL's or suites but I believe it covers the actual ticket cost. Frankly, add $20 mil on and the point remains the same.
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Old 12-05-2013   #82
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

I don't think making money is McNair's primary concern. If it was, he'd have done a LOT of things differently.

Most people don't buy NFL franchises because if its moneymaking potential -- sure, that's a nice bonus. But for someone who is a BILLIONAIRE and got that way through other means, an NFL franchise can be a lot of different things but mostly, it's a status symbol and the culmination of a childhood dream of being part of a sports franchise.

If McNair was all about maximizing his profit, then we would have a huge gap between the salaries of our players and the cap limit. And we don't. We'd have the fewest number of coaches possible. And we don't.

I think McNair wants to win. I think he wants to have a winning team. But I think he's trying to model the way the franchise works on Pittsburgh (recently) and Miami and Dallas (in the 70's and 80's). I think that HE thinks that a winning program is based on stability.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.

So I can see him keeping Kubiak around if he thinks Kubiak is doing a good job or if he thinks Kubiak can do a good job in the future.

With all that said... I expect him to fire Kubiak. But I don't expect him to fire Kubiak because he thinks it will renew the fanbase's morale or sell more tickets.
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Old 12-05-2013   #83
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
Are you sure you're not mistaking the conversation regarding keeping Smith?

The whole premise was that no team in history has won division titles and playoffs games in back-to-back seasons and fired the GM and coach after the next season.

McClain maintains that Kubiak will be fired and Smith will stay.
Nope, not a mistake on my part.

Read it for yourself. This is the article they were talking about on the radio:

Quote:
Texans house cleaning would be foolish

When a team loses as much as the Texans have, change is inevitable. But what kind of owner fires his general manager and coach one bad season after they won back-to-back AFC South titles and a playoff game each year?

A foolish one.

And McNair is no fool.

Source
I did not get to read the article until today, and I'm not upset about it like the guys on the radio. It's just McClain filling up space as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
But like a car wreck, I can't pull my eyes away. I'm compelled to look.

Fired. No doubt in my mind. This season has embarrassed McNair. And Kubiak's blood is the cost of that embarrassment.
One aspect that makes me lean toward a Kubiak firing is McNair's radio silence. In 2010, when fans were getting restless, McNair made a series of statements that were clearly in support of Kubiak. That owners' meeting after losing a tight MNF game comes to mind, where he said all the owners told him what a great team he has and that he just needs to be patient. Then the infamous "ox in a ditch" and "on the right track" quotes came out around the same time.

Now...we hear absolutely nothing from McNair. Not a peep, afaik. That tells me that he's preparing to do what he has to do, which is probably not easy for a guy like McNair, but he knows that it's time when he sees this garbage product on the field in his team's uniforms.

That said, I'm still preparing myself for the worst. Hoping for the best, but I'm not expecting anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
Bob McNair will lose money if he doesn't INCREASE his PROFITS.
31 teams in the NFL make a profit every year regardless of results. The only team that does not turn a profit is the Lions, and that is a direct result of massive debt from financing a new stadium and bad management.

Quote:
Only One NFL Team Lost Money In 2012

A new Forbes report indicates just how profitable the NFL has become. According to the study the average NFL team is worth $1.17 billion, and the most valuable team, the Dallas Cowboys, are worth an astounding $2.3 billion.

In that respect, it may be surprising to hear that not every NFL franchise operated at a surplus in 2012. In fact one team lost money.

Forbes reported that the Detroit Lions, who were valued at $900 million and took in $248 million in revenue last year, posted a loss of $3.5 million last year.

------------------------------

Below is the complete list of NFL franchise values and, in parenthesis, each team's operating income from 2012:

1. Dallas Cowboys: $2.3 billion ($250.7 million)
2. New England Patriots: $1.8 billion ($139.2 million)
3. Washington Redskins: $1.7 billion ($104.3 million)
4. New York Giants: $1.55 billion ($64.4 million)
5. Houston Texans: $1.45 billion ($81.5 million)
McNair could keep everything exactly the same in 2014 and still make a nice profit. Revenue sharing ensures this basic fact.
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Old 12-05-2013   #84
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I think McNair wants to win. I think he wants to have a winning team. But I think he's trying to model the way the franchise works on Pittsburgh (recently) and Miami and Dallas (in the 70's and 80's). I think that HE thinks that a winning program is based on stability.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.

So I can see him keeping Kubiak around if he thinks Kubiak is doing a good job or if he thinks Kubiak can do a good job in the future.

With all that said... I expect him to fire Kubiak. But I don't expect him to fire Kubiak because he thinks it will renew the fanbase's morale or sell more tickets.
I agree with most of your comments. I disagree somewhat with Pittsburgh, Miami, Dallas comments. I understand the point you're trying to make. To be more accurate, Bob McNair said prior to the start 2006 season he was using "The Patriot Model" to build his team going forward.

IMHO I do think that customer fan disapproval does take their toll. I can't imagine any owner wanting to live with 24/7 bad press, criticism, disapproval and condemnation, it affects the personal side of their life. Owners are people to. Plus all of the above is bad for business and that effects the business side of their life.
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Old 12-05-2013   #85
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
If McNair was all about maximizing his profit, then we would have a huge gap between the salaries of our players and the cap limit. And we don't. We'd have the fewest number of coaches possible. And we don't.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.
To the first paragraph, the current CBA prevents going too far under the cap. You're also making the assumption that by going "cheap" McNair could guarantee the same revenue stream.

To the second, I couldn't disagree more. He cares what he hears from fans when he sees decreased revenue streams. He's already seeing that now with reduced concessions, stadium merchandise, licensing and the like. If he thinks that retaining Kubiak will keep hurting those streams in anything other than the very near term, he might be inclined to make a change.

Sure, he's in no danger of losing money anytime soon, but if this team is his status symbol (I tend to agree), then the longer we wallow, the lower that status.
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Old 12-05-2013   #86
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
To the first paragraph, the current CBA prevents going too far under the cap. You're also making the assumption that by going "cheap" McNair could guarantee the same revenue stream.

To the second, I couldn't disagree more. He cares what he hears from fans when he sees decreased revenue streams. He's already seeing that now with reduced concessions, stadium merchandise, licensing and the like. If he thinks that retaining Kubiak will keep hurting those streams in anything other than the very near term, he might be inclined to make a change.

Sure, he's in no danger of losing money anytime soon, but if this team is his status symbol (I tend to agree), then the longer we wallow, the lower that status.
Even before the current CBA, we weren't one of the teams with a ton of cap space. The Buccs almost always have 20-40 million to spend. THAT'S a team where I'd be worried about a cheap owner.

Another team is the Bengals. For them, this IS their revenue. Their owners are worried about profit far more than McNair is. And because of that, they do things cheap. They nickle and dime their players. McNair provides them with nice facilities and provides perks you'd expect (like free gatorade); the Bengals don't (from what I've heard.)

Fans are fickle. Daniel Snyder tried for years to run his team like a fan would and it got him nothing. Does McNair want fans in the seats? Yes, of course he does. But he believes the way to get them there isn't by doing what they want, it's by giving them a winner. And he doesn't think they (we) know what's best for his team.
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Old 12-05-2013   #87
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I agree with most of your comments. I disagree somewhat with Pittsburgh, Miami, Dallas comments. I understand the point you're trying to make. To be more accurate, Bob McNair said prior to the start 2006 season he was using "The Patriot Model" to build his team going forward.

IMHO I do think that customer fan disapproval does take their toll. I can't imagine any owner wanting to live with 24/7 bad press, criticism, disapproval and condemnation, it affects the personal side of their life. Owners are people to. Plus all of the above is bad for business and that effects the business side of their life.
How are the fans perspectives on the Texans bad for McNair's businesses? If the fans are ticked off about Kubiak, how does that translate to some power plants on the East Coast, a Biotech firm, a Real Estate company, and some venture capital things?

McNair's not running some Mytiburger franchise that local people are going to stop going to if they don't like what he does with the team. The fans in Houston are NOT the people McNair's businesses deal with. The only time their his customers is when they're going to the games. And if he's not looking at that as his main source of income, then he's not that worried about what the fans think.

For someone like a McNair or a Jerry Jones, owning a sports team is their way of playing Madden. This is a game. They want to win. It's exciting. But if someone is burning a Schaub jersey outside the stadium, it's not the end of their world.
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Old 12-05-2013   #88
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.
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Old 12-05-2013   #89
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YeaLikeRightNow View Post
Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.
The problem is that there's never a proven solution.

Every time you change coaching staffs, it's a crap-shoot.

But you can't let that keep you from pulling the trigger if the guy you've got isn't getting it done.
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Old 12-05-2013   #90
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
How are the fans perspectives on the Texans bad for McNair's businesses? If the fans are ticked off about Kubiak, how does that translate to some power plants on the East Coast, a Biotech firm, a Real Estate company, and some venture capital things?

McNair's not running some Mytiburger franchise that local people are going to stop going to if they don't like what he does with the team. The fans in Houston are NOT the people McNair's businesses deal with. The only time their his customers is when they're going to the games. And if he's not looking at that as his main source of income, then he's not that worried about what the fans think.

For someone like a McNair or a Jerry Jones, owning a sports team is their way of playing Madden. This is a game. They want to win. It's exciting. But if someone is burning a Schaub jersey outside the stadium, it's not the end of their world.
For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.
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Old 12-05-2013   #91
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.
90% of Reliant is sold on season tickets. You are seeing some unused seats/parking this year but the revenue is not lost except on the game day sales of concessions. Until it hits the point where the Texans are not selling out the games their attendance losses are limited to game day purchases.

Merchandise is shared by the league (with some small exceptions). That's why the VY will sell more jerseys than Mario argument was silly.

The TV contracts are long term league deals.

There are a few things individual teams negotiate like naming rights but again they are long term deals.
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Old 12-05-2013   #92
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.
That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.
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Old 12-05-2013   #93
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YeaLikeRightNow View Post
Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.
The "we can't do better" argument. That is lame and sad.


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Old 12-05-2013   #94
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.
I can't remember exactly how it went, but McNair originally wanted a hockey team.

I saw you mention McNair and jerry jones earlier and IMO, they are not a like in any way besides they both are rich.

Jerry jones actually is involved in the football stuff. He's hands on with that stuff.

We don't even know if McNair was the one who wanted Ed Reed. McNair brought in a football consultant during capers era. McNair goes to other owners for advice on whether his team is "on the right track".

You keep saying that McNair has plenty of money. That's true, but like a kleptomaniac stealing just to steal, very rich people (who really don't NEED anymore money) sometimes just like to make money because that's what they do.

The way the texans are marketed lets you know they are about the money. Let's not make it seem like the money this franchise makes isn't important to McNair. It is.

So while being a great football team might be a sign of status for McNair, I'm willing to bet that a really rich guy like him also views his franchise being one of the most valuable as a status symbol as well.
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Old 12-05-2013   #95
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
90% of Reliant is sold on season tickets. You are seeing some unused seats/parking this year but the revenue is not lost except on the game day sales of concessions. Until it hits the point where the Texans are not selling out the games their attendance losses are limited to game day purchases.

Merchandise is shared by the league (with some small exceptions). That's why the VY will sell more jerseys than Mario argument was silly.

The TV contracts are long term league deals.

There are a few things individual teams negotiate like naming rights but again they are long term deals.
You're underestimating the amount of revenue loss. Just based on your cavalier dismissal of revenues is well over several million each Sunday. Funny how that is not much money when it is not yours. As a CEO and CFO your not doing a happy a dance when your revenue is declining. I don't know of any Owner/CEO/CFO who celebrates when revenue goes down. I use to own my own company and when revenue dropped, alarms and sirens went off with an immediate attention to why and how to stop it. I don't expect things are much different with any other FOR profit business.

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That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.
McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to lose money. No owner or potential owner would either. Granted there may be a few owners who are content to tread water. Those owners and those NFL Franchises are closer to the Bottom 5 in franchise value and NOT one of the Top 5 Most Valuable NFL Franchises.
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Old 12-05-2013   #96
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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I can't remember exactly how it went, but McNair originally wanted a hockey team.

I saw you mention McNair and jerry jones earlier and IMO, they are not a like in any way besides they both are rich.

Jerry jones actually is involved in the football stuff. He's hands on with that stuff.
There are several different kinds of owners of major sports franchises.

For some, the sports franchise itself is their primary source of income. For some, it's about the status of it. For some, it's about the love of the game.

Jerry Jones and Bob McNair may be very different in their approaches to handling the day-to-day operations and their level of involvement, but I believe they're fundamentally alike in the fact that they love being a part of the game.
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Old 12-05-2013   #97
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to lose money. No owner or potential owner would either. Granted there may be a few owners who are content to tread water. Those owners and those NFL Franchises are closer to the Bottom 5 in franchise value and NOT one of the Top 5 Most Valuable NFL Franchises.
McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to MAKE money. If he makes money, great. But that's not his primary concern.

And even with that said, he's not losing money with the Texans any time soon. If he's not losing money, why should he change his basic approach?
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Old 12-05-2013   #98
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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There are several different kinds of owners of major sports franchises.

For some, the sports franchise itself is their primary source of income. For some, it's about the status of it. For some, it's about the love of the game.

Jerry Jones and Bob McNair may be very different in their approaches to handling the day-to-day operations and their level of involvement, but I believe they're fundamentally alike in the fact that they love being a part of the game.
McNair was going to go try and buy a hockey franchise.

What makes you think he is so in love with the game of football?

Jerry jones makes pretty much every decision for the cowboys. He's like al Davis more than he's like bob McNair.

I'm not saying McNair doesn't give a damn, but how you are connecting the dots between the two doesn't make any sense to me.

It's fine if you believe that McNair is a passionate football person like jerry jones or al Davis....but we really don't have any reason to believe that.
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Old 12-05-2013   #99
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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McNair going to go try and buy a hockey franchise.

What makes you think he is so in love with the game of football?

Jerry jones makes pretty much every decision for the cowboys. He's like al Davis more than he's like bob McNair.

I'm not saying McNair doesn't give a damn, but how you are connecting the dots between the two doesn't make any sense to me.

It's fine if you believe that McNair is a passionate football person like jerry jones or al Davis....but we really don't have any reason to believe that.


Im not sure you could call Jerry and Al passionate football people based on their styles of owners. I would label them as control freaks more so than passionate football people.




As a side note I think Mcnair and his group paid 700MM for the Texans and it looks like they have doubled in value over the life of ownership which is less than a 7% return per year
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Old 12-05-2013   #100
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Default Re: Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?

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McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to MAKE money. If he makes money, great. But that's not his primary concern.

And even with that said, he's not losing money with the Texans any time soon. If he's not losing money, why should he change his basic approach?
You're passing your opinion off as fact.

As I've mentioned, McNair was going to buy a hockey franchise at first so it's not like he's some did hard football fanatic that just dreamed of having a football team.

And why would he change if he's not losing money ATM? Seriously?

No business person thinks like that. Was he losing money when he fired capers? No. But the point is that if you start to become less relevant in a market it's harder to climb back up that hill. Conversely, once you establish yourself as a giant, it's easier to maintain that success.

We really don't know his intentions as to why he wanted a sports franchise.

But I think you are way off base saying this is just a hobby. I think McNair is very proud that he has a very valuable franchise.
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