Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft > Mock Draft Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Mock Draft Talk Mock Drafts, group Mocks and links to all the shamockery.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-30-2013   #21
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
 
Texecutioner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,439
Rep Power: 87675 Texecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Shutdown corner BUT a Franchise QB is the most important player on your team.
Read the thread. No one was debating that.

A franchise QB may be the most important player for sure, but finding an elite franchise shut down corner is a lot more rare to find. It's probably the hardest position in the league to find a dominant player at.
Texecutioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #22
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
 
Texecutioner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,439
Rep Power: 87675 Texecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
There is no such thing in todays NFL with the rules skewed so far in favor of the offense.

The shut down corner is extinct ....
That is not correct. It was just a few years ago when Revis had arguably the best season of all time for any CB even with these rules. Asom was killing it for the Raiders for years as a true shutdown corner. Hakim (However you spell his name) is the defensive player of the year this season in a lot of people's eyes. He's been shutting down a lot of guys all season long. You take him off the Patriots defense and they're nowhere near as good. He has been dominant all season long.
Texecutioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #23
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Well you are changing up your question. As originally asked it wasn't about value of positions or who is absolute best (that definitionally means there is one of each). You asked about rarity for shutdown CB v. franchise QB or LT. For that it doesn't matter who is absolute best. Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodger are all clearly franchise QBs regardless of who is best.


Revis pre-injury was approaching shutdown during his Revis island phase.

Sherman isn't even close as can be demonstrated by the Texans game. The Texans went after him all day long. Clearly he was not feared and avoided (although he should have been on the pick 6).

Deion was truly shutdown. QBs largely refrained from even throwing in his direction.
Just exploring all angles how one defines such questions with draft rankings/value per position @ forefront. I defer these questions to my fellow Texans, I never lay any claim to being an expert on these things. I can scout College to Pro but after that there are so many influencing factors to consider sometimes unrelated to their actual grade.

Really enjoy everyone's input, including yours
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #24
powda
Hall of Fame
 
powda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,112
Rep Power: 87952 powda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

As long a megatron is playing CAN there be a shutdown corner?
__________________
Each year, there are more than 40,000 toilet related injuries in the United States.
powda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #25
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,736
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Franchise QB, LT or shutdown corner

open for serious discussion only lets stick to subject
Hopefully, my comment does not deter from your question, but I think there is one of these in 2014 draft. Matthews. I think only one other franchise type position is represented and that is C J Mosley at ILB. So you guys that always push BPA have to draft one of these even over a trade down.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #26
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,382
Rep Power: 49238 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Read the thread. No one was debating that.

A franchise QB may be the most important player for sure, but finding an elite franchise shut down corner is a lot more rare to find. It's probably the hardest position in the league to find a dominant player at.
I did. My answer was: Shutdown Corner. I added a caveat. Are you a little hungover today?
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #27
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Hopefully, my comment does not deter from your question, but I think there is one of these in 2014 draft. Matthews. I think only one other franchise type position is represented and that is C J Mosley at ILB. So you guys that always push BPA have to draft one of these even over a trade down.
Good as always BB! It's difficult to sort out BPA without preconceived opinions. Now we can agree/disagree better per position projecting forward in context of rarity of position, upside of prospect all within fabric of a teams salary cap moving forward to ensure future roster balance.
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #28
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,736
Rep Power: 123706 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Good as always BB! It's difficult to sort out BPA without preconceived opinions. Now we can agree/disagree better per position projecting forward in context of rarity of position, upside of prospect all within fabric of a teams salary cap moving forward to ensure future roster balance.
Yep and why you and I and some others do what we do and love it. Unlike some years, 2014 should offer some quality candidates for our needs. I can spend hours on a mock and then ten minutes after I complete do another.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #29
ArlingtonTexan
Moderator
 
ArlingtonTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 47
Posts: 6,026
Rep Power: 73193 ArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

eagles-jason-avant-there-are-no-shutdown-corners-in-the-nfl

Probably want this from a better Wr, but given the nature of our the conversation
__________________
It doesn't just seem like I was talking down to people, I was. (Runner 8/4/09).
ArlingtonTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #30
bhsman
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 644
Rep Power: 13423 bhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by powda View Post
As long a megatron is playing CAN there be a shutdown corner?
Kareem did pretty well against him last year.
bhsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2013   #31
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,900
Rep Power: 235987 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Which is more rare?

Franchise QB, LT or shutdown corner?
D. The NFL GM who can determine which one is the one.

Last edited by Playoffs; 12-01-2013 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Auto-correct edit
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #32
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB Oregon could be that rare shutdown corner. Reminds me so much of Darrel Revis, similar size (eight career interceptions at Pittsburgh and made 39 tackles Junior season). Ifo just had 12 tackles alone against the Beavers in the Civil War, one INT & three breakups finishing his career (assuming he comes out early) w/Ducks having amassed 7 INT's, 175 tackles, 30 passes broken up as teams tried to feed the ball away from him his Junior season he developed into dominant run stopper & physical tackler.

He was my favorite DB coming into this season, based off just one season & he has done nothing to disappoint even though teams work away from his side. He still get's matched up one on one with other teams difficult assignment & rarely gets beat, competes for the ball with unreal instinct, hand placement with plus recover ability & closing speed.

BL
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #33
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,433
Rep Power: 68948 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

I've got a first round grade on Ekpre-Olomu but I think that Gilbert, Oklahoma St and Verrett, TCU both possess better skills for the NFL. Gilbert is your best shot at a shutdown corner in this draft, in my opinion.
bah007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #34
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,900
Rep Power: 235987 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB Oregon could be that rare shutdown corner...
Took me ~5 years to get "Nmandi Asomugha" pronounced correctly...

Can we just call him IEO or Vowel or something like that?
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #35
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

like both players as well. Varrett reminds me of Dunta Robinson, Gilbert is more athlete than polished corner really like his return skills. Ifo is complete & would shine as a rookie. Also should mention Purifoy, Florida & Hampton, South Carolina (would be nice to reunite with Swearinger in 3rd) have announced they will be foregoing Senior seasons to enter the Draft.
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #36
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Took me ~5 years to get "Nmandi Asomugha" pronounced correctly...

Can we just call him IEO or Vowel or something like that?
IFO as in UFO....lol
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #37
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,433
Rep Power: 68948 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Gilbert is definitely more raw than Verrett and Ifo. Those guys could step in and start day 1 for a lot of teams. But Gilbert's ceiling is significantly higher.
bah007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #38
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Gilbert is definitely more raw than Verrett and Ifo. Those guys could step in and start day 1 for a lot of teams. But Gilbert's ceiling is significantly higher.
I would like to see what Gilbert could do as a FS in the NFL. He is a ballhawk.
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #39
bhsman
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 644
Rep Power: 13423 bhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respectedbhsman is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

What about the cornerback from Mich. State? Marqueeze Dennard, IIRC?
bhsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013   #40
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,301
Rep Power: 47040 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Which is more rare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
What about the cornerback from Mich. State? Marqueeze Dennard, IIRC?
Ascending Player.
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft > Mock Draft Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger