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Old 11-25-2013   #921
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Honest, you've made several comments derogatory of SEC, SEC defenses and the SEC being overrated. You've clearly illustrated your dislike for the SEC.

Mr teX and WolverineFan it is clear that you've a complete dislike or even a hate for Manziel. It is also clear that I think Manziel will be a top QB pick in the 2014 NFL draft. The 1st QB taken, I really don't know but I wouldn't be surprised. Is Teddy the consensus #1? In the media spin yes but come draft time maybe not.

FWIW at this point I'm thinking if the Texans have #1 pick they might be better served trading back w/ Cleveland at #10 for their #1, their 2nd RD and their 1st RD in 2015. Texans clean house and dump all bad money in 2014. Who do the Texans take with 10th pick? Depends on what QBs go back to school? A top OT and Aaron Brown and Jeremiah Attaochu with their two 2nds sounds like a great start to the rebuilding program.

As for our Manziel discussion I think we've exhausted our positions and at this point we're wasting bandwidth.
As I've stated frequently before, the SEC is undoubtedly the strongest football conference, but this SEC defense stuff is just a myth. It was true from 2003-2009. It's not anymore. The offenses in the conference have caught up.

The top 30 defenses in college football by conference.....

American - 5
Big Ten - 5
ACC - 4
SEC - 4
Big 12 - 3
C-USA - 3
Pac-12 - 3
MAC - 1
MWC - 1
Sun Belt - 1

Like I've continually stated, the SEC has the best and most athletic defensive players, but they also have the best and most athletic offensive players as well. That wasn't the case 10 years ago, but it is now. The only teams in the conference who are continually good at defense are Alabama, LSU, and Florida. That's not "the SEC". That's 3 of it's 14 teams.

Also, I do not "hate" Manziel. I think he is a fantastic college player, but his game does not translate to the NFL. That's what I argue during these debates.

However, as an aside, when Manziel played Florida he had Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews blocking for him. When Bridgewater played Florida he had Alex Kupper and Jamon Brown blocking for him. Who do you think had the advantage?
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Old 11-25-2013   #922
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Default Re: Manziel

Stop the name calling. Do not repost deleted posts.
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Old 11-25-2013   #923
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
As for our Manziel discussion I think we've exhausted our positions and at this point we're wasting bandwidth.
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Old 11-25-2013   #924
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Stop the name calling. Do not repost deleted posts.
Yeah, I'll do that as long as you stop the name calling on the other end (look at post 873) which has yet to be deleted. I didn't start this crap, I only responded to it. It's not my fault that I have a opinion about Manziel without somebody getting in a uproar about it.
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Old 11-25-2013   #925
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Default Re: Manziel

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No dislike for him...i don't know the kid personally. I only dislike the opinions of people who are ready to annoint this kid.....like yours. As it is, you can't even be critical of the kid without 1 of you coming out the woodworks in his defense.

For what it's worth, i think it's in his best interest to go back to school for another year. There's no denying he's got talent & athleticism, he simply needs to get better passing the ball. Anyone who seriously watches him can see that. he's extremely raw.

By the way, i feel almost the exact same way about Brett Hundley.
Maybe your criticism is unwarranted, anyone who watches him know he's a leader or close to the top in every category. Manziel works with private QB coach George Whitfield and his mechanics have improved. Running to his left Manziel still throws better than any QB I have seen recently, sees the field extremely well better than any QB I have seen this year and uses multiple recievers, it's not like he's a one read and check down QB like so many QBs are. When he extends plays and throws sidearm awkwardly to complete a pass may not be pretty and what you see as extremely raw. Hundley is very raw and hasn't come close to doing anything what Manziel has done on a football field.
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Old 11-25-2013   #926
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
FYI when I see comments like NFL scouts think this about this Jr. I laugh. NFL Scouts don't begin their evaluation process until a player is actually in the draft. Efficient management of their time and they've a full body of work. Only people evaluating Sophs and Juniors now are media draftniks.
I'm glad you're not running the Texans scouting department. I really doubt they wait that long to start evaluating players they think are coming out.
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Old 11-25-2013   #927
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
I'm glad you're not running the Texans scouting department. I really doubt they wait that long to start evaluating players they think are coming out.
I'm sure that they can't help notice players by simply watching other players on film .
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Old 11-25-2013   #928
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Yeah, I'll do that as long as you stop the name calling on the other end (look at post 873) which has yet to be deleted. I didn't start this crap, I only responded to it. It's not my fault that I have a opinion about Manziel without somebody getting in a uproar about it.
Read over that post again yourself. You can post like he did. You cannot continue calling people morons, etc.
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Old 11-25-2013   #929
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
I'm glad you're not running the Texans scouting department. I really doubt they wait that long to start evaluating players they think are coming out.
Yea not sure what that comment was all about. Scouts don't just scout upperclassmen. They go through all the schools in their territory and scout anyone who impresses them. When the offseason comes around, that's when they focus on draft eligible prospects, who they usually already have a portfolio on from previous scouting trips.

You can be darn sure that pretty much every team already has a developing scouting report on Jameis Winston, despite the fact that he's a redshirt freshman.
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Old 11-25-2013   #930
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
I'm glad you're not running the Texans scouting department. I really doubt they wait that long to start evaluating players they think are coming out.
I'm just going off what I've read from several NFL scouts and NFL GM's have said. Sure they have opinions on players like everyone else but their actual full evaluations don't begin until the player enters the NFL draft. Just because you may not be familiar with some of these NFL GM & scouts comments doesn't necessarily make me a dummy.

Scouts and GM's are on record saying that in season (Now) they're completing their evaluations and final scouting reports on Seniors. The reason they don't do underclassman is because they don't have a full body work, players are still maturing and it's a responsible use of their time on players they know who will be in the draft. And not a waste of time on players who may or may not be in the draft. Things are not always going to be the way you think they should be.
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Old 11-25-2013   #931
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
He's only 205 lbs?!? Wow! He looks the part on TV, but I guess he really isn't all that big. Admittedly I haven't watched much of him.

I'm curious. Who would you like us to draft?
Honestly, I'm Undecided. I have to admit the possibility of trading back with someone like Cleveland who has been stock piling draft picks and may be willing to pay Kings ransom (what Wash gave STL for RGIII) to move up, I find very intriguing. This is what I find most interesting today (subject to change).

For a decision today, I like trading back, taking an OT, a QB and Aaron Donald in rd 2.

Last edited by Texian; 11-25-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 11-25-2013   #932
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Maybe your criticism is unwarranted, anyone who watches him know he's a leader or close to the top in every category. Manziel works with private QB coach George Whitfield and his mechanics have improved. Running to his left Manziel still throw better than any QB I have seen recently. When he extends plays and throws sidearm awkwardly to complete a pass may not be pretty and what you see as extremely raw. Hundley is very raw and hasn't come close to doing anything what Manziel has done on a football field.
the bolded would be valid............... if i was the only one who was saying the things i'm saying. & of course you know i'm not the only one...pro scouts are mixed on him as well for alot of the same reasons.

& Ok, so his mechanics have improved...they're still not that great. He tends to have to "load up" to get the ball downfield..which indicates arm strength issues.
His footwork is suspect too. A little too often that lead foot isn't pointed squarely at his target like it should be when he's throwing.

many times when he's scrambling around, it's pretty much unnecessary. a slide here, or there would usually be enough to buy him time to get his throw off. But he chooses to do scramble around, b/c he's most comfortable doing that rather than move in the pocket subtly.

Then there's the issue of his chuck & duck tendencies. I've never seen a qb get so much hype and be so revered doing this as much as he has.

He just doesn't look comfortable back there when even a little pressure gets up on him.

As far as Hundley...the fact that you keep bringing stats into it or alluding to them when comparing both guys..that should tell you how deep you are in with Manziel. Both guys show the same tendencies. The difference is 1 guy (Hundley) tries to sit in the pocket and make the pass down field, the other guy doesn''t.
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Old 11-25-2013   #933
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
the bolded would be valid............... if i was the only one who was saying the things i'm saying. & of course you know i'm not the only one...pro scouts are mixed on him as well for alot of the same reasons.

& Ok, so his mechanics have improved...they're still not that great. He tends to have to "load up" to get the ball downfield..which indicates arm strength issues.
His footwork is suspect too. A little too often that lead foot isn't pointed squarely at his target like it should be when he's throwing. how hard would it be to correct the pointing of his big toe?

many times when he's scrambling around, it's pretty much unnecessary. a slide here, or there would usually be enough to buy him time to get his throw off. But he chooses to do scramble around, b/c he's most comfortable doing that rather than move in the pocket subtly.

Then there's the issue of his chuck & duck tendencies. I've never seen a qb get so much hype and be so revered doing this as much as he has.yet he's in Top 10 in Yards per Completion; http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/f...individual/740

He just doesn't look comfortable back there when even a little pressure gets up on him.

As far as Hundley...the fact that you keep bringing stats into it or alluding to them when comparing both guys..that should tell you how deep you are in with Manziel. Both guys show the same tendencies. The difference is 1 guy (Hundley) tries to sit in the pocket and make the pass down field, the other guy doesn''t.
Hundley, without any stats or JF comparisons, I haven't seen anything from Hundley on a football field that suggest he could be as good as Josh Freeman. He's still very young and can use another 12 starts in college. Better?
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Old 11-25-2013   #934
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Hundley, without any stats or JF comparisons, I haven't seen anything from Hundley on a football field that suggest he could be as good as Josh Freeman. He's still very young and can use another 12 starts in college. Better?
Footwork is the basis for everything going on up top. Him fixing his toe isn't a big deal & it can be fixed, but it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. changes to footwork of any kind can effect accuracy....& if it's a habit...which it is for him....it makes it double tough.


See Mark Sanchez. Dude had a horrible habit of over striding any time he threw the ball over 20 yards on a rope in college. It caused him to air mail those type of throws at times. The easy fix is to shorten his stride up so that he's more balanced when delivering the ball thereby enabling him to keep the ball down...problem solved right? Nope. He eventually reverted back to his old habits in trying to over compensate for the speed of the game on the NFL level. It's also no surprise then that he started back air-mailing throws again & those same throws he was getting away with in college were turning into picks on the pro level.
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Old 11-25-2013   #935
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Default Re: Manziel

ITT: tons of buttmad on both sides
jeez. I'm an Ag and even I think Manziel is the biggest gamble in the draft.
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Old 11-25-2013   #936
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Stop the name calling. Do not repost deleted posts.
Thanks.

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Yeah, I'll do that as long as you stop the name calling on the other end (look at post 873) which has yet to be deleted. I didn't start this crap, I only responded to it. It's not my fault that I have a opinion about Manziel without somebody getting in a uproar about it.
I erased it. Let's move on.
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Old 11-25-2013   #937
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
ITT: tons of buttmad on both sides
jeez. I'm an Ag and even I think Manziel is the biggest gamble in the draft.
Like I have said already, I am beginning to agree with you because of the LSU game. I expected more out of him. The first time he got beat up on by LSU could have been due to his youth and inexperience. Time #2 just shows he still hasn't figured out how to beat speedy defenses like what LSU employs.
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Old 11-25-2013   #938
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Read over that post again yourself. You can post like he did. You cannot continue calling people morons, etc.
Oh... my bad. so you can call people whiney *****

Fine and dandy, I'll just edit out the "M" word.


Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Holy crap you sound like a whiney little *****. I deleted the part about Marcus because he had nothing to do with the current conversation. I also deleted the part about you being narcissistic because it involved poor judgment in the "attack the post not the poster" arena. It's called maturity.

As for removing your quote, I had nothing to do with that. I'm pretty sure our little spat was moderated. You sound like a damn child with your long winded rants. Reach deep and pull the stick out of your ass. It'll make you feel better.

LOL, so now I'm the whiney little *****..

I'm not the "M word" who decided to cry like a little girl over a disagreement. I'm not the guy who couldn't handle a simple debate without saying I'll disregard every single post made be the poster who has a opinion I disagree with, I'm not the guy who deleted a post and then quoted it and responded to it. You are the one who comes off as a whiney little *****. Because you can't handle simple criticism about your man crush.

And as far as you deleting "Marcus" from your post because he had nothing to do with the conversation.. you are the one who included him and brought him into the damn conversation to begin with. Really?
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Old 11-25-2013   #939
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Oh... my bad. so you can call people whiney *****

Fine and dandy, I'll just edit out the "M" word.


Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Holy crap you sound like a whiney little *****. I deleted the part about Marcus because he had nothing to do with the current conversation. I also deleted the part about you being narcissistic because it involved poor judgment in the "attack the post not the poster" arena. It's called maturity.

As for removing your quote, I had nothing to do with that. I'm pretty sure our little spat was moderated. You sound like a damn child with your long winded rants. Reach deep and pull the stick out of your ass. It'll make you feel better.

LOL, so now I'm the whiney little *****..

I'm not the "M word" who decided to cry like a little girl over a disagreement. I'm not the guy who couldn't handle a simple debate without saying I'll disregard every single post made be the poster who has a opinion I disagree with, I'm not the guy who deleted a post and then quoted it and responded to it. You are the one who comes off as a whiney little *****. Because you can't handle simple criticism about your man crush.

And as far as you deleting "Marcus" from your post because he had nothing to do with the conversation.. you are the one who included him and brought him into the damn conversation to begin with. Really?
Dude, chill and move on. Let's not derail the thread from evaluations of Manziel.
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Old 11-25-2013   #940
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Dude, chill and move on. Let's not derail the thread from evaluations of Manziel.

the evaluations of Manziel is what got us to this spot. Some people simply can't handle negative evaluations of johnny football.
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