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Old 11-20-2013   #181
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
"All of a sudden?" Where have you been the last 5 years? This offense has been very predictable for a while, but it wasn't an issue in 2011/12 because our O-line+Foster was good enough to score TDs most of the time in the Red Zone. Without that run-game working, Kubiak's offense is completely neutered. He probably could make some adjustments and change strategy to account for that, but it's pretty obvious that's outside-the-box type of thinking for him. I think he's more content to stay in the box and **** all over the place instead.
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Lets be honest here. It's been pretty damned predictable for a number of years. Beating up on the bad defenses and getting destroyed (or at the very least "handled") by the good ones isn't a recipe for long-term success. It looks good in the regular season when your schedule hands you a bunch of weak sisters but come playoff time you don't get very far.

I wonder if Oakland is (as I'm reading more often these days) going to kick Brisiel to the curb after this year. Makes me curious if we could pick him up again (in the unlikely event we stay with this system) as a short-term veteran presence.
Yet Kubiaks system has rendered a top offense every single year. When you don't have an elit QB too many other factors have to be perfect.
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Old 11-20-2013   #182
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
It ain't working out! Oddly, this was easily his most talented offense in his eight years, at least in regards to having weapons in multiple positions... And, as bad as the line has played, we would have killed for this group through 2008... There is no clear explanation why this has happened. The snowball effect is in full gear, though, so he will have to exit the organization wondering what the heck happened.
It's the line. Run blocking has been poor too.
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Old 11-20-2013   #183
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I really wanted that song to be our wedding song, but she did not think it was romantic enough.

As far as the thread goes, it is obvious that Kubiak has completely lost the team and it shows in a myriad of ways. Time to nuke the whole thing and move on.
Oh my God I'd never seen this. Damn I laughed.
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Old 11-20-2013   #184
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by chicagotexan2 View Post
Oh my God I'd never seen this. Damn I laughed.
Here's the original version. Prepare to laugh!
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Old 11-20-2013   #185
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I went back and reviewed the game observing the plays called with Case and Schaub.......and it was so obvious that Kubiak did absolutely NOTHING to help Case to succeed. The short middle field outlet was not even a given option. People are right when they say that Case couldn't see the short route receivers over the blitzing defenders.................there weren't any.

And trying to basically put 7 lineman in....................give me a break........there's got to be a problem........and it isn't pointing to Case.
Exactly, and for those of you who say Case can't find the short middle routes never watched him in college.... he was WAY MORE known for just those types of passes that turned into more YAC because he is great at leading his receivers. A few weeks ago you Case knockers said he can't throw the deep ball ... now you're trying to say that's all he can throw.

Anyone who watched these games can see that the biggest problems Case has is an incredibly porous oline, no running game, and incredibly inconsistent play calling and coaching decisions.

Something IS going on with this team and I'm not sure if it is a conspiracy or just plain incompetence. I think Kubiak is a good person and so I am going to say it is pure incompetence.

And, why in HADES did we not sign Eric Winston when he was available to us earlier in the year????? Can you name ONE person who believes that what we have at RT is a better solution???? Okay, I guess Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak .... hmmmmmm
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Old 11-20-2013   #186
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Yet Kubiaks system has rendered a top offense every single year.
Let me start off by saying that I have always said Kubiak is a good offensive coordinator. I've defended him on the Xs and Os side of things, as well as his QB work. But let's not buy into this top offense crap. His systems tend to put up a lot of yardage, but scoring lags behind. I don't care one bit about yardage. Not counting '06, because that was a shambles of a team, here is what we're looking at:

'07: 333.6 ypg (14th), 23.7 ppg (12th). League lead was 36.8 ppg.
'08: 382.1 ypg (3rd), 22.9 ppg (17th). League lead was 28.9 ppg.
'09: 383.1 ypg (4th), 24.3 ppg (10th). League lead was 31.9 ppg.
'10: 386.6 ypg (3rd), 24.4 ppg (9th). League lead was 32.4 ppg.
'11: 372.1 ypg (13th), 23.8 ppg (10th). League lead was 35.0 ppg.
'12: 372.1 ypg (7th), 26.0 ppg (8th). League lead was 34.8 ppg.
'13: 378.0 ypg (10th), 19.3 ppg (27th). League lead is 39.8 (then 28.8 for #2).

So they've never had a truly top scoring offense, which is all that really matters, and scoring has almost always lagged yardage. Even in a dysfunctional season like this, the offense is putting up 378 yards per game. So yardage doesn't impress me. As much as I think highly of Kubiak as a play designer, I think his system has some flaws in the red zone. So IMO, he'll never have a top offense with this system.
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Old 11-20-2013   #187
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
A few weeks ago you Case knockers said he can't throw the deep ball ... now you're trying to say that's all he can throw.
I find that amusing as well.
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Old 11-20-2013   #188
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

After watching a few games on the all-22, I did notice a few things. I'm not anywhere close to being an expert, but...

1. Ben Tate is a horrible blocker.

2. Case has a tendency to hold the ball too late to wait for certain plays to develop. There were a few times in which all he had was the check down, but opted to keep looking down field instead which eventually lead to sacks. This one is difficult b/c we often criticize Schaub too much for dumping the passes off.

3. He has a tendency to roll out rather than step up into the pocket. There was one play where Case evaded pressure and threw the ball away. Tate picked up the block from the middle and was pretty much pushed back. Case could have made some positive yards with his leg if he darted forward and to the right of Tate since Tate was blocking left. Instead Case, rolled out left.
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Old 11-20-2013   #189
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by foo82 View Post
After watching a few games on the all-22, I did notice a few things. I'm not anywhere close to being an expert, but...

1. Ben Tate is a horrible blocker.

2. Case has a tendency to hold the ball too late to wait for certain plays to develop. There were a few times in which all he had was the check down, but opted to keep looking down field instead which eventually lead to sacks. This one is difficult b/c we often criticize Schaub too much for dumping the passes off.

3. He has a tendency to roll out rather than step up into the pocket. There was one play where Case evaded pressure and threw the ball away. Tate picked up the block from the middle and was pretty much pushed back. Case could have made some positive yards with his leg if he darted forward and to the right of Tate since Tate was blocking left. Instead Case, rolled out left.
1. Indeed. He's even worse when he's hurting.

2. Indeed again. The Texans need to make him understand that just because they don't want him to be Matt Schaub in the check-down department they also don't need the second coming of Rob Johnson holding on to the ball forever. There's a sweet spot in between that he should be aiming for.

3. I think if he can get a few more games under his belt (assuming he is capable of what many of us hope he can be) then the game will slow down a little for him and he'll start making better decisions where this is concerned. The boy needs some experience so he can learn "when to hold em' and when to fold em'"
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Old 11-20-2013   #190
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by foo82 View Post
After watching a few games on the all-22, I did notice a few things. I'm not anywhere close to being an expert, but...

1. Ben Tate is a horrible blocker.

2. Case has a tendency to hold the ball too late to wait for certain plays to develop. There were a few times in which all he had was the check down, but opted to keep looking down field instead which eventually lead to sacks. This one is difficult b/c we often criticize Schaub too much for dumping the passes off.

3. He has a tendency to roll out rather than step up into the pocket. There was one play where Case evaded pressure and threw the ball away. Tate picked up the block from the middle and was pretty much pushed back. Case could have made some positive yards with his leg if he darted forward and to the right of Tate since Tate was blocking left. Instead Case, rolled out left.
Great points in analysis.

I noticed the tendency to roll instead of step up into the pocket, as well. Not sure if it's a lack of trust in the blockers or if it's just inexperience with pocket management, but it is certainly something to be curious about. When pressure comes from the around the tackles, most experienced QBs step up to pass or take advantage of the hole for some positive yardage with their feet.

I'm not criticizing the guy. Just observations as a fan. Kid has a lot of potential, but he will have to learn some of the basic fundamentals of managing a pro offense to have a multi-dimensional skillset.
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Old 11-20-2013   #191
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Great points in analysis.

I noticed the tendency to roll instead of step up into the pocket, as well. Not sure if it's a lack of trust in the blockers or if it's just inexperience with pocket management, but it is certainly something to be curious about. When pressure comes from the around the tackles, most experienced QBs step up to pass or take advantage of the hole for some positive yardage with their feet.

I'm not criticizing the guy. Just observations as a fan. Kid has a lot of potential, but he will have to learn some of the basic fundamentals of managing a pro offense to have a multi-dimensional skillset.
That's hard to put into your head when so many of the blitzes came from inside the tackles..........many of those, straight up the middle.
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Old 11-20-2013   #192
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Let me start off by saying that I have always said Kubiak is a good offensive coordinator. I've defended him on the Xs and Os side of things, as well as his QB work. But let's not buy into this top offense crap. His systems tend to put up a lot of yardage, but scoring lags behind. I don't care one bit about yardage. Not counting '06, because that was a shambles of a team, here is what we're looking at:

'07: 333.6 ypg (14th), 23.7 ppg (12th). League lead was 36.8 ppg.
'08: 382.1 ypg (3rd), 22.9 ppg (17th). League lead was 28.9 ppg.
'09: 383.1 ypg (4th), 24.3 ppg (10th). League lead was 31.9 ppg.
'10: 386.6 ypg (3rd), 24.4 ppg (9th). League lead was 32.4 ppg.
'11: 372.1 ypg (13th), 23.8 ppg (10th). League lead was 35.0 ppg.
'12: 372.1 ypg (7th), 26.0 ppg (8th). League lead was 34.8 ppg.
'13: 378.0 ypg (10th), 19.3 ppg (27th). League lead is 39.8 (then 28.8 for #2).

So they've never had a truly top scoring offense, which is all that really matters, and scoring has almost always lagged yardage. Even in a dysfunctional season like this, the offense is putting up 378 yards per game. So yardage doesn't impress me. As much as I think highly of Kubiak as a play designer, I think his system has some flaws in the red zone. So IMO, he'll never have a top offense with this system.
Does a top scoring offense ensure a championship? I'm too lazy to do the digging especially on my phone but I wonder where, say the last 5 champs ranked in scoring offense.
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Old 11-20-2013   #193
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Does a top scoring offense ensure a championship? I'm too lazy to do the digging especially on my phone but I wonder where, say the last 5 champs ranked in scoring offense.
Point differential would probably matter more, but I'm not looking it up either. At the end of the day, turnovers and TDs matter way, way more than yardage. I'm not interested in yardage, especially when Kubiak's offenses have been so prolific in yardage while lagging behind in scoring.

On the other side of that, the Texans have the #1 defense in the league, in terms of yardage. We all know that's a BS stat, since they're 28th in giving up points and more than twice as bad as the #1 team.
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Old 11-20-2013   #194
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Completely unrelated, but I've been listening to A Game of Thrones in my truck for the last three days and now when I read yalls posts it has an English accent in my head. FML
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Old 11-20-2013   #195
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Offense/Defense/Super Bowls

Here is some data.

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/20/40...s-steelers-nfl

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...rs-stats-picks
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Old 11-20-2013   #196
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Completely unrelated, but I've been listening to A Game of Thrones in my truck for the last three days and now when I read yalls posts it has an English accent in my head. FML
Mine should be read with an Irish accent and/or translated on the fly into Gaelic.
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Old 11-20-2013   #197
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Does a top scoring offense ensure a championship? I'm too lazy to do the digging especially on my phone but I wonder where, say the last 5 champs ranked in scoring offense.
ive got a broken arm and nothing but time at home all alone lol...here are the stats for the last 5 winners

ravens - 10th ppg/16th ypg
giants - 9th ppg/8th ypg
packers 10th ppg/9th ypg
saints - 1st ppg/1st ypg
steelers - 20th ppg/22nd ypg
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Old 11-20-2013   #198
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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That's hard to put into your head when so many of the blitzes came from inside the tackles..........many of those, straight up the middle.
Very true. The pressure up the middle is a problem for any QB, even the great ones with lots of experience. I do not get why the line has been so abysmal this season. Reminds me of Carr running for his life to the point of feeling phantom pressure and self-sacking himself.
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Old 11-20-2013   #199
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Case needs to watch brees operate in the pocket. Not that he can be brees, but brees is a shorter guy who is good at finding lanes to step up into to see down field.

But really some if this stuff comes with team repetition to build trust. And also to build familiarity.

Really good qb's don't have to see all the routes. They don't have to wait til a guy is open to throw it.

Some things you're just not going to see from case. Just like any young qb, it takes a certain amount of faith to assume a qb is going to progress. Case is in a really difficult spot right now where he almost has to be superhuman (or hope a bunch of things go exactly right) for him to be a consideration next season as the starter.
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Old 11-20-2013   #200
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie View Post
Completely unrelated, but I've been listening to A Game of Thrones in my truck for the last three days and now when I read yalls posts it has an English accent in my head. FML
I imagine Thorn's posts to have a sort of "Foster Brooks" slur to them.

Other than that I don't get much of that stuff. The people I've met, I hear their voices. Otherwise it all just kind of drones on.

Oh yeah, Norg I read like Alex Karras in Blazing Saddles. Now that I think about it Dread Head's posts I sometimes read/hear in Cleavon Little's voice also from Blazing Saddles.

But that's it..... I think.
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