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Old 11-19-2013   #161
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Case can't beat a blitz of his own coach calls a seven step drop with 10.guys on the line of scrimmage.
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Old 11-19-2013   #162
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
because im showing a play that proves case can beat a blitz with, yet we fail to use it more
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Originally Posted by tvaughan View Post
You honestly think they don't run crossing patterns because Case is short? You honestly believe that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That was my impression watching the game also. Schaub made one good throw. Other than that I saw guys running right across his face on short crossing routes wide open.

I thought, well maybe case was just missing those guys. But it just didn't make any sense that he couldn't beat a single blitz by hitting a guy on a quick slant or a drag...quick routes are staples of beating the blitz and it's just strange that it seems case is always waiting for something diene field to develop. No three step drops. I mean, even awful qb's should be able to dink and dunk if a team is constantly blitzing.

I said it after the game but I think subconsciously kubiak may not be putting case in as good of a situation as he could. It's like his game plan has gotten lazier, and lazier. And then the goofiness about him fixin to do some stuff that the young qb wasn't prepared for. I don't trust kubiak. That whole situation is curious to me.

The whole mentioning of Schaub working hard to start again early in the week...then he inserts him into the game to play hero.

And my guy tells me starting case this week wasn't his decision. Hes normally tight lipped about that all week, and now all of a sudden he just spouts it out when the first person asked.

I'll be glad when this season is over and kubiak is gone.

I went back and reviewed the game observing the plays called with Case and Schaub.......and it was so obvious that Kubiak did absolutely NOTHING to help Case to succeed. The short middle field outlet was not even a given option. People are right when they say that Case couldn't see the short route receivers over the blitzing defenders.................there weren't any.

And trying to basically put 7 lineman in....................give me a break........there's got to be a problem........and it isn't pointing to Case.
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Old 11-19-2013   #163
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

With the exception of a few good posts, this thread is nothing more than a pissing match between Texan fans. Well done guys.
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Old 11-19-2013   #164
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
With the exception of a few good posts, this thread is nothing more than a pissing match between Texan fans. Well done guys.
I had to go. What else was I supposed to do?

Scores on the pissing match?
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Old 11-19-2013   #165
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
With the exception of a few good posts, this thread is nothing more than a pissing match between Texan fans. Well done guys.
Haha, I saw the thread and thought to myself, Why is the Keenum starter for Jacksonville game thread nine pages long?

Thanks for the break down.
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Old 11-19-2013   #166
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I went back and reviewed the game observing the plays called with Case and Schaub.......and it was so obvious that Kubiak did absolutely NOTHING to help Case to succeed. The short middle field outlet was not even a given option. People are right when they say that Case couldn't see the short route receivers over the blitzing defenders.................there weren't any.:
Thanks for looking that over. I noticed that during the game but I wasn't sure just how many plays I identified. I was getting really frustrated when people were saying "Case can't read the blitz" because I wasn't seeing anyone else reading the blitz either. No hot routes that I could identify, no slants, no routes breaking early. I saw one blitz where the shortest route was a 15 yard out!!

It seemed as if the plays called were discounting the reality of the all-out blitz and left Case to make his own time to throw. There didn't seem to be a game plan to deal with the blitz either. Very few screens, no draws, no shovel passes, no max protect.

Kubiak isn't dumb, but he is stubborn. I have no idea what his logic was there.

The blitz is NOT just the QBs responsibility. At the minimum it requires at least a WR to make the same read. It didn't seem like that was happening. This isn't even getting to the O-line and HB pass blocking which was, shall we say "poor."

The assertion that Case simply "can't read a blitz" would be more convincing if they were more elaborate blitzes (they're not) or if Case was missing the hot read (there doesn't seem to be one.) Case missed some plays, no doubt about it, but the trouble runs much deeper than Case's somehow dropping 50 points at halftime each game.
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Old 11-19-2013   #167
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I had to go. What else was I supposed to do?

Scores on the pissing match?
Pissing match?

That's my kind of party!!

Fo sho,

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Old 11-20-2013   #168
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by tvaughan View Post
You honestly think they don't run crossing patterns because Case is short? You honestly believe that?
You gonna tell me andre johnson can't read a blitz and run hot? This has been the same 2nd half pattern except it happened in the 1st half. Soon as the blitz come,he's looking to escape by dropping eyes vs stading and delivering. The double a gap blitzes by cardinals coming in the face of a small qb can be problematic. Again,I don't see the upside of pulling him,but to once again blame the coach for keenums collapse again is juvenile. He's playing like world beater in the 1st half and a bum in the 2nd. Against the cardinals he was brutals from 2nd qt on. How many passes did he throw right to the cards defense that they dropped?
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Old 11-20-2013   #169
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
This team was 2-7 entering the Raiders game. The game was about as meaningless as it could get in November. Might as well leave Keenum in and get him some in-game experience in the hurry up offense.
If you don't think Keenum gives us a viable chance to win, he shouldn't be in there.

This is just entertainment for us, but Kubiak has a responsibility to Dennison, Benton, Dorrell, Harris, & all of the position coaches excluding Herring & Joseph (chances are that Wade will survive at DC if he wants to).

I don't think this is about being short sighted. He's trying to win a game & by pulling Case, he's telling us he does not believe Case gives us that viable chance to win.

At the same time, he's not helping Case with the play calling. Ben Tate has 4 broken ribs. We should be using 4 WRs more often than not, 1 RB, primarily out of the shotgun. I'd also use a TE instead of a RB when we're in shotgun... a decent receiver out of the backfield who can protect the QB or sneak out and catch a screen.


If he were smart, he'd tweak the offense for Case now & worry about making him Matt Schaub next season, but with that stunt he just pulled, he pretty much killed any opportunity of being here with Case next season.
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Old 11-20-2013   #170
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If you don't think Keenum gives us a viable chance to win, he shouldn't be in there.

This is just entertainment for us, but Kubiak has a responsibility to Dennison, Benton, Dorrell, Harris, & all of the position coaches excluding Herring & Joseph (chances are that Wade will survive at DC if he wants to).

I don't think this is about being short sighted. He's trying to win a game & by pulling Case, he's telling us he does not believe Case gives us that viable chance to win.

At the same time, he's not helping Case with the play calling. Ben Tate has 4 broken ribs. We should be using 4 WRs more often than not, 1 RB, primarily out of the shotgun. I'd also use a TE instead of a RB when we're in shotgun... a decent receiver out of the backfield who can protect the QB or sneak out and catch a screen.


If he were smart, he'd tweak the offense for Case now & worry about making him Matt Schaub next season, but with that stunt he just pulled, he pretty much killed any opportunity of being here with Case next season.


That's what I said. Problem is he can't bring himself to not try and mold Case into another one of his guys. Instead of doing what Case does well and building an offense around it he's back to that same old square peg - round hole mentality that is his Achilles heel.
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Old 11-20-2013   #171
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
That's what I said. Problem is he can't bring himself to not try and mold Case into another one of his guys. Instead of doing what Case does well and building an offense around it he's back to that same old square peg - round hole mentality that is his Achilles heel.
What ever happened to Kubiak's long-standing well-publicized policy of putting his players in the best position to succeed by planning to their strengths???
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Old 11-20-2013   #172
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If he were smart, he'd tweak the offense for Case now & worry about making him Matt Schaub next season, but with that stunt he just pulled, he pretty much killed any opportunity of being here with Case next season.
Going mainly to a pistol formation wasn't doing that already? I thought everybody around here thought it was smart and would make Keenum nice and comfy? Kubiak is catering to the kid and doing things he himself hasn't done much of. I happen to think the offense looks much better when you take the snap from center, NFL defenses are not getting caught off guard with the read option stuff anymore.

An NFL QB should be able to read a defense, if your wideouts aren't helping you tuck tail and run FORWARDS never should you take 10-15 yard sacks. That has nothing to do with scheme or playcalling.
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Old 11-20-2013   #173
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

I disagree. Go back and watch the Oakland game. Tate's best runs
came from the pistol, and every time Keenum went under center in
the second half the OL was blown up -- drastically on stretch plays.

This OL isn't capable of zone blocking anymore. The players are
no longer suited to it. The right side is a mess and Brown has lost
a step. (injury most likely)

When the Texans are in the pistol, the defense has to maintain discipline
because there could be a run, QB run, or pass. They just can't pin their
ears back and send the house because Case is mobile.

In the second half, a good majority of under center plays failed instantly
when the ball was snapped. Honestly, it was so obvious that Gary
went hurry-up to keep Matt clean and when they started blitzing him
-- the same thing happened.

This o-line cannot provide enough time for any QB operating under center
when the heat is on..

Kubiak is being a total stubborn knucklehead forcing a square peg into
a round hole. His scheme cannot be run with the folks we have on
the field -- he's just the only person inflexible enough to cope with that
fact so poorly..

Makes me wish Harbaugh was here. Case is a much more accurate
passer than Kaepernic and their scheme would better fit our guys on
the field right now.

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Going mainly to a pistol formation wasn't doing that already? I thought everybody around here thought it was smart and would make Keenum nice and comfy? Kubiak is catering to the kid and doing things he himself hasn't done much of. I happen to think the offense looks much better when you take the snap from center, NFL defenses are not getting caught off guard with the read option stuff anymore.

An NFL QB should be able to read a defense, if your wideouts aren't helping you tuck tail and run FORWARDS never should you take 10-15 yard sacks. That has nothing to do with scheme or playcalling.
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Old 11-20-2013   #174
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
I disagree. Go back and watch the Oakland game. Tate's best runs
came from the pistol, and every time Keenum went under center in
the second half the OL was blown up -- drastically on stretch plays.

This OL isn't capable of zone blocking anymore. The players are
no longer suited to it. The right side is a mess and Brown has lost
a step. (injury most likely)

When the Texans are in the pistol, the defense has to maintain discipline
because there could be a run, QB run, or pass. They just can't pin their
ears back and send the house because Case is mobile.

In the second half, a good majority of under center plays failed instantly
when the ball was snapped. Honestly, it was so obvious that Gary
went hurry-up to keep Matt clean and when they started blitzing him
-- the same thing happened.

This o-line cannot provide enough time for any QB operating under center
when the heat is on..

Kubiak is being a total stubborn knucklehead forcing a square peg into
a round hole. His scheme cannot be run with the folks we have on
the field -- he's just the only person inflexible enough to cope with that
fact so poorly..

Makes me wish Harbaugh was here. Case is a much more accurate
passer than Kaepernic and their scheme would better fit our guys on
the field right now.

TJ
Why doesn't Schaub run the pistol then if all he has to do is handoff? I agree the line sucks, I dont agree Keenum is more accurate in the intermediate passing game and koobs is trying to reinvent the wheel by running a system he is unfamiliar with.
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Old 11-20-2013   #175
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
What ever happened to Kubiak's long-standing well-publicized policy of putting his players in the best position to succeed by planning to their strengths???
It ain't working out! Oddly, this was easily his most talented offense in his eight years, at least in regards to having weapons in multiple positions... And, as bad as the line has played, we would have killed for this group through 2008... There is no clear explanation why this has happened. The snowball effect is in full gear, though, so he will have to exit the organization wondering what the heck happened.
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Old 11-20-2013   #176
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Why doesn't Schaub run the pistol then if all he has to do is handoff? I agree the line sucks, I dont agree Keenum is more accurate in the intermediate passing game and koobs is trying to reinvent the wheel by running a system he is unfamiliar with.
Schaub did run the pistol formation. We did it quite a bit against the Seahawks as well. Last I remember Steph had an article out about it and said Schaub ran the pistol/shotgun 22% of the time.
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Old 11-20-2013   #177
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Schaub did run the pistol formation. We did it quite a bit against the Seahawks as well. Last I remember Steph had an article out about it and said Schaub ran the pistol/shotgun 22% of the time.
So let's see prior to this year top offense - no pistol.

This year pistol - shaky offense particularly second halves.

Line issues date back to Winston and Brisiel thus not thinking they were necessary.

All of a sudden Kubiaks system doesnt work and its predictable?
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Old 11-20-2013   #178
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

"All of a sudden?" Where have you been the last 5 years? This offense has been very predictable for a while, but it wasn't an issue in 2011/12 because our O-line+Foster was good enough to score TDs most of the time in the Red Zone. Without that run-game working, Kubiak's offense is completely neutered. He probably could make some adjustments and change strategy to account for that, but it's pretty obvious that's outside-the-box type of thinking for him. I think he's more content to stay in the box and **** all over the place instead.
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Old 11-20-2013   #179
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by chicagotexan2 View Post
Pissing match?

That's my kind of party!!

Fo sho,

R. Kelly
I really wanted that song to be our wedding song, but she did not think it was romantic enough.

As far as the thread goes, it is obvious that Kubiak has completely lost the team and it shows in a myriad of ways. Time to nuke the whole thing and move on.
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Old 11-20-2013   #180
Hervoyel
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Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
So let's see prior to this year top offense - no pistol.

This year pistol - shaky offense particularly second halves.

Line issues date back to Winston and Brisiel thus not thinking they were necessary.

All of a sudden Kubiaks system doesnt work and its predictable?
Lets be honest here. It's been pretty damned predictable for a number of years. Beating up on the bad defenses and getting destroyed (or at the very least "handled") by the good ones isn't a recipe for long-term success. It looks good in the regular season when your schedule hands you a bunch of weak sisters but come playoff time you don't get very far.

I wonder if Oakland is (as I'm reading more often these days) going to kick Brisiel to the curb after this year. Makes me curious if we could pick him up again (in the unlikely event we stay with this system) as a short-term veteran presence.
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