Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-19-2013   #81
tedr
Veteran
 
tedr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 3444 tedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respectedtedr is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Well, Gary has to know himself that he likely isn't in this teams future plans if he doesn't get this crap turned around asap....so tell me again why he would be so incumbent upon giving case every chance to succeed again? Dude is trying to win games & like it or not, he did that for 2 years with Schaub.

It's also funny that i hear all this "give case a legitimate chance" bark from everyone but you don't hear that same bark for TJ Yates though. I mean here's a guy who himself only started 8 games for this team, won a few of them including a playoff game, came into the season as the #2 & yet he was passed over for the starting job when Schaub went down in favor of the #3 guy. It's highly likely that Case doesn't do much more in these final games to say he definitely should be the starter. Is everyone going to be willing to put Keenum out to pasture like they did TJ? My guess is no. It'll be something else then...



"oh, well with a new coach i think he can improve.." - Maybe, Maybe not.
"well it was only 8-9 games, & it usually takes a full season of games to really figure out if a guy can play or not.." - Is that right? well TJ only got & he was done in everyone's eyes..

You guys don't see the fail in your logic. Understand that Kubiak made the decision to pass over TJ Yates & give case a shot in the 1st place even though it would've been very easy to justify going with TJ. Now all of a sudden he's sabotaging Case with playcalling & god knows everything else just so he can get his boy Schaub back in? You guys aren't making any sense.
I don't know of anybody here that thinks TJ can be the long term solution. Putting Case in before TJ was the right decision, but as I just said in another post, they should utilize Case's strengths, which they haven't been doing enough of.
tedr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #82
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,629
Rep Power: 243165 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Give Case a legitimate chance is all I'm saying. Don't pull him in the third quarter of a close game like Kubiak did. Apparently he didn't get the memo that the world has stuck a fork in his team and his job. It's evaluation time and you don't evaluate a young QB or teach him how to deal with pressure by sitting him down and giving him a Capri Sun juice bag while you put someone else in to do the job. I heard his explanation and I buy that he's rationalized it that way.

Show me the QB who learned how to handle being blitzed into ineffectiveness in 4 games. I want to know who that guy is. We've seen the good things Case can do and we (along with all the DC's in the league) have seen the things he doesn't do well. What we need to know is whether or not he gets better with some experience.

You don't get experience from the bench.

Additionally if you're not a Case fan and you want to see the UH alums shut up (or make way for the A&M alums if you want to be honest) then you should be adamant that Case be left out there. You don't think he's the answer. You think his ceiling is Rex Grossman-like. Fine. It's a valid opinion unless and until he can manage to prove otherwise. If I felt that way I'd want everyone who won't shut up about Case to see it happen so that when draft comes around they'll shut up about their hero and accept the new QB that gets drafted.

Case needs to play every possible minute of the next 6 games. Fans and critics alike should agree on that completely.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #83
Exascor
Hall of Fame
 
Exascor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Posts: 1,585
Rep Power: 35348 Exascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's also funny that i hear all this "give case a legitimate chance" bark from everyone but you don't hear that same bark for TJ Yates though. I mean here's a guy who himself only started 8 games for this team, won a few of them including a playoff game, came into the season as the #2 & yet he was passed over for the starting job when Schaub went down in favor of the #3 guy. It's highly likely that Case doesn't do much more in these final games to say he definitely should be the starter. Is everyone going to be willing to put Keenum out to pasture like they did TJ? My guess is no. It'll be something else then...
TJ Yates - 3 TD 6 INT
Case Keenum - 8 TD 1 INT

BTW - 2 of TJs INTs were THIS season on 22 attempts. TJ should have come in for Schaub and lit the place on fire. Instead he mimicked Schaub. I'd rather TJ than Schaub but that isn't saying much.

Keenum has 6 more games to audition for the job in 2014. He hasn't looked great but given his experience level he's looked pretty good. The new coach (hopefully) will need to evaluate him and decide if he has the potential to stick with him or if the team needs to look elsewhere for a replacement or at least solid competition.
__________________
Texans v3.0 - Currently in alpha testing - Expected release date 9/7/2014
Exascor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #84
amazing80
Site Contributor
 
amazing80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Elkhron, WI
Section: my couch
Posts: 1,525
Rep Power: 40560 amazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Well, Gary has to know himself that he likely isn't in this teams future plans if he doesn't get this crap turned around asap....so tell me again why he would be so incumbent upon giving case every chance to succeed again? Dude is trying to win games & like it or not, he did that for 2 years with Schaub.

It's also funny that i hear all this "give case a legitimate chance" bark from everyone but you don't hear that same bark for TJ Yates though. I mean here's a guy who himself only started 8 games for this team, won a few of them including a playoff game, came into the season as the #2 & yet he was passed over for the starting job when Schaub went down in favor of the #3 guy. It's highly likely that Case doesn't do much more in these final games to say he definitely should be the starter. Is everyone going to be willing to put Keenum out to pasture like they did TJ? My guess is no. It'll be something else then...

"oh, well with a new coach i think he can improve.." - Maybe, Maybe not.
"well it was only 8-9 games, & it usually takes a full season of games to really figure out if a guy can play or not.." - Is that right? well TJ only got & he was done in everyone's eyes..

You guys don't see the fail in your logic. Understand that Kubiak made the decision to pass over TJ Yates & give case a shot in the 1st place even though it would've been very easy to justify going with TJ. Now all of a sudden he's sabotaging Case with playcalling & god knows everything else just so he can get his boy Schaub back in? You guys aren't making any sense.
i was one of the loudest voices PRO YAYES so dont go spouting off at the mouth. but even i agree after watching case play, he brings more than schaub and yates EVER did. if you cant see that then youre an idiot, nothing more to say
__________________
amazing80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #85
YeaLikeRightNow
Veteran
 
YeaLikeRightNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Age: 22
Posts: 138
Rep Power: 650 YeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respectedYeaLikeRightNow is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmck View Post
This has got to be one of the biggest upsets of the year. It sure didn't take Kubes long to do it.
Man....Kubes sure is wishy-washy.
YeaLikeRightNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #86
santo
Hall of Fame
 
santo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pasadena, TX
Age: 35
Posts: 1,228
Rep Power: 28100 santo is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respectedsanto is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
Case will probably be cut at the end of the season. Patriots will pick him up. We'll see what a great coach does with him.
I wouldn't be surprised if Green Bay or New Orleans would take a look at him.
santo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #87
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,668
Rep Power: 86686 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedr View Post
I don't know of anybody here that thinks TJ can be the long term solution. Putting Case in before TJ was the right decision, but as I just said in another post, they should utilize Case's strengths, which they haven't been doing enough of.
Not saying yates is the long term solution...but them going with case being the "right" decision? based on what? a spark? I honestly believe that putting anyone under center besides Schaub would've given this team the same spark..but

Lets analyze this "strengths" argument.

Mobility - ok, we've run a good amount of rollouts & play action bootlegs that have put that to use...but we haven't been running the ball well & as a result the rollouts & play action bootlegs haven't had the same effect as they normally would. Teams are also just on it. The ends are playing disciplined & are waiting on it. Now, unless you're 1 of the people advocating we run zone read or something, i don't see how the coaching staff can utilize this skill any more than they have been. It's largely on Case to put that in play.

the deep ball - the playcalling has been there for that evidenced by how much he was connecting deep in the 1st 2 games. But defenses are hip to that now & the last 2 games they've endeavored to take it away from him. He hit none in the AZ game and only 1 in the last game. In addition to this, teams are blitzing the hell out of him. So even if the coaches were sabotaging him & not calling deep shots, he hasn't had alot of time to sit back & let that deep stuff develop anyway.

He worked alot out of shotgun & spread formations at U of H .....we've been damn near exclusively running out of the shotgun & have seen an uptick in our spread packages...

I mean what the hell else do u want the coaches to do to try & do to utilize his strengths more short of changing the whole damn offense....which will effect everyone...Then we'd be losing games b/c of miscues on offense instead.
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #88
Troy Chapman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 204
Rep Power: 16642 Troy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respectedTroy Chapman is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Kubiak saw his last glimmer of hope in saving his career and his boy Shaub in the Oakland game. He quickly thought..."if Matt can win this game for me; we might save ourselves". Well that didn't happen. Now he is forced to go back with Keenum. Explaining that he is comfortable with Keenum.

I just hope this doesn't affect Keenum's confidence. Kubiak pretty much just killed it by pulling Keenum but later crawfishing saying he is comfortable with him. Like he is trying to protect Keenum's confidence by not letting him fail. Just ridiculous.
Troy Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #89
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,668
Rep Power: 86686 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
i was one of the loudest voices PRO YAYES so dont go spouting off at the mouth. but even i agree after watching case play, he brings more than schaub and yates EVER did. if you cant see that then youre an idiot, nothing more to say


Again he brings more based on what? stats? I thought stats were for losers? That's what we always heard with Schaub. You guys see a few deep passes & a couple of qb scrambles and think that all's well. I seem to recall Yates doing alot of the same stuff in his 1st couple of starts...now only 8 games later & after an abyssmal performance in a blowout game where he got in for a 1/2... cold turkey with no 1st team reps, that's what we'll judge TJ on...never mind what he did as a true rookie.

Again, i'm not saying he's the answer as opposed to Case...but at least try to look at things objectively.

Someone pulled up Yates stats vs. Keenum's...Yeah keenum looks great in comparison to Yates...until you factor in keenum's fumbles....
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #90
amazing80
Site Contributor
 
amazing80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Elkhron, WI
Section: my couch
Posts: 1,525
Rep Power: 40560 amazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Again he brings more based on what? stats? I thought stats were for losers? That's what we always heard with Schaub. You guys see a few deep passes & a couple of qb scrambles and think that all's well. I seem to recall Yates doing alot of the same stuff in his 1st couple of starts...now only 8 games later & after an abyssmal performance in a blowout game where he got in for a 1/2... cold turkey with no 1st team reps, that's what we'll judge TJ on.

Again, i'm not saying he's the answer as opposed to Case...but at least try to look at things objectively.

Someone pulled up Yates stats vs. Keenum's...Yeah keenum looks great in comparison to Yates...until you factor in keenum's fumbles....
again if your eyes dont tell you hes better than theres nothing to discuss. his accuracy, velocity, scrambling, ability to keep plays alive and for the most part to protect the ball. our oline was much better the year yates took over, case has played well despite the fact our rt is a turnstile and tate doesnt know how to hold a block for more than a second....case deserves to keep playing and nothing you said proves otherwise
__________________
amazing80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #91
Exascor
Hall of Fame
 
Exascor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Posts: 1,585
Rep Power: 35348 Exascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Someone pulled up Yates stats vs. Keenum's...Yeah keenum looks great in comparison to Yates...until you factor in keenum's fumbles....
Really? Do you make stuff up?

TJ Yates - Fumbles 8 Lost 4
Case Keenum - Fumbles 4 Lost 2
__________________
Texans v3.0 - Currently in alpha testing - Expected release date 9/7/2014
Exascor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #92
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,577
Rep Power: 72459 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Case needs to play every possible minute of the next 6 games. Fans and critics alike should agree on that completely.
That needed to be said, and etched in bronze. I find it preposterous how anyone can make a judgement about a rookie after just 4 games.

And blame all of this on coaching if you want, but the OL, the RBs, and with AJ being the exception, the WRs are all playing like they've never seen a blitz before either. It's a team effort, and lately it seems like there's a team effort in place to make Case fail.

The next 6 games will be interesting to see much the team itself wants Case Keenum to succeed.
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #93
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,668
Rep Power: 86686 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Give Case a legitimate chance is all I'm saying. Don't pull him in the third quarter of a close game like Kubiak did. Apparently he didn't get the memo that the world has stuck a fork in his team and his job. It's evaluation time and you don't evaluate a young QB or teach him how to deal with pressure by sitting him down and giving him a Capri Sun juice bag while you put someone else in to do the job. I heard his explanation and I buy that he's rationalized it that way.

Show me the QB who learned how to handle being blitzed into ineffectiveness in 4 games. I want to know who that guy is. We've seen the good things Case can do and we (along with all the DC's in the league) have seen the things he doesn't do well. What we need to know is whether or not he gets better with some experience.

You don't get experience from the bench.

Additionally if you're not a Case fan and you want to see the UH alums shut up (or make way for the A&M alums if you want to be honest) then you should be adamant that Case be left out there. You don't think he's the answer. You think his ceiling is Rex Grossman-like. Fine. It's a valid opinion unless and until he can manage to prove otherwise. If I felt that way I'd want everyone who won't shut up about Case to see it happen so that when draft comes around they'll shut up about their hero and accept the new QB that gets drafted.

Case needs to play every possible minute of the next 6 games. Fans and critics alike should agree on that completely.
As usual hervy we see eye to eye.....Kubiak should've just rode it out with him..but again, eval time for who? the team? Like i said, Kubiak undoubtedly knows he won't be here next year. So what the hell would he care about evaluating guys for next year for? Fans are in 1 mode (eval time for next year), he and the coaching staff are in another (win by any means necessary).
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #94
amazing80
Site Contributor
 
amazing80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Elkhron, WI
Section: my couch
Posts: 1,525
Rep Power: 40560 amazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respectedamazing80 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
As usual hervy we see eye to eye.....Kubiak should've just rode it out with him..but again, eval time for who? the team? Like i said, Kubiak undoubtedly knows he won't be here next year. So what the hell would he care about evaluating guys for next year for? Fans are in 1 mode (eval time for next year), he and the coaching staff are in another (win by any means necessary).
and thus we come full circle, gary shouldve been fired yesterday because he doesnt have our FUTURE at the forefront of his decisions.....
__________________
amazing80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #95
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 11,816
Rep Power: 72604 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
Sorry steel. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've seen posted in a while. The NFL has a salary cap. High draft picks fit under the cap easily. For teams that don't stay up against the cap they bring excitement/hope which means more money.
Yep and up until 2-3 yrs ago there was no rookie wage scale. That's why teams picking at the top were at a great disadvantage with the salary cap. If your top 5 pick busted you were screwed. That's why the owners pushed so had for the rookie wage scale.
steelbtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #96
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,668
Rep Power: 86686 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
Really? Do you make stuff up?TJ Yates - Fumbles 8 Lost 4
Case Keenum - Fumbles 4 Lost 2
You mean like you did? in yates' regular season starts in 2011 he only threw 3 picks not 8. you systematically added in his 2 from the blowout rams loss in which he did not start....he came in cold turkey with no 1st team reps. and you also added the 3 he threw.......... in a playoff game .....against a SB contender no less...a level of intensity that most young qbs would fold under let alone a guy making his 1st playoff start ever as a rookie.

Which again bring me back to yates being a true rookie...green as they come...unlike Keenum who at least got to sit and learn the system & get somewhat of an idea of the speed of the NFL his rookie year.

All i'm saying is, there's next to no reason why anyone should be more excited & optimistic for Keenum than they were for Yates. They look about the same at this juncture. Yates came out & looked solid against Jax & ATL, looked damn good against Cincy & then stunk it up his next 2 starts against Carolina & Indy....Pretty much the same deal with Keenum thus far.
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #97
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,543
Rep Power: 181498 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Give Case a legitimate chance is all I'm saying. Don't pull him in the third quarter of a close game like Kubiak did. Apparently he didn't get the memo that the world has stuck a fork in his team and his job. It's evaluation time and you don't evaluate a young QB or teach him how to deal with pressure by sitting him down and giving him a Capri Sun juice bag while you put someone else in to do the job. I heard his explanation and I buy that he's rationalized it that way.

Show me the QB who learned how to handle being blitzed into ineffectiveness in 4 games. I want to know who that guy is. We've seen the good things Case can do and we (along with all the DC's in the league) have seen the things he doesn't do well. What we need to know is whether or not he gets better with some experience.

You don't get experience from the bench.

Additionally if you're not a Case fan and you want to see the UH alums shut up (or make way for the A&M alums if you want to be honest) then you should be adamant that Case be left out there. You don't think he's the answer. You think his ceiling is Rex Grossman-like. Fine. It's a valid opinion unless and until he can manage to prove otherwise. If I felt that way I'd want everyone who won't shut up about Case to see it happen so that when draft comes around they'll shut up about their hero and accept the new QB that gets drafted.

Case needs to play every possible minute of the next 6 games. Fans and critics alike should agree on that completely.

Great post! Now we need to, but most importantly, Case needs to hear Kubiak officially say "Case is our starter for the rest of the season........period!" Case does not at this stage of his development need to feel that he has a hammer looming over his head, just waiting to fall at any moment. As any promising young QB, his confidence as well as his skills must be built up and re-inforced.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #98
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,629
Rep Power: 243165 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
and thus we come full circle, gary shouldve been fired yesterday because he doesnt have our FUTURE at the forefront of his decisions.....
Well, that's kind of the weird thing to me and the biggest indictment of Kubiak as HC in recent memory. He's trying to win games to save his job. We all get that. I think McNair gets that. I don't think wins are what saves Gary Kubiak if he is (or was prior to Sunday) able to save his ass. I think that sticking to Schaub, even if it provides us with a couple of extra ugly dysfunctional wins this year is a huge mistake. In this sense I think that McNair and the ticket buying public are on the same page. No one wants to see anymore safe and mostly ineffectual "Schaub-ball" with the Texans beating up on the weak sisters and crawling to a .500 record (which I know is no longer even possible). This isn't Gary's first couple of years where a late season rally to 8-8 will look like progress. That tack won't cut it in 2013.

Gary says he hasn't lost the locker room and I again accept that he sees it that way. What he doesn't seem to understand is that having a locker room full of guys who say the right things (because they're been trained to do so) and having a locker room full of guys who all like you isn't the same thing as having a locker room full of guys who are all with you. They can all be your friends and like you and one another while knowing that what you're doing isn't working. Just because a guy will buy you dinner and talk good about you on his radio show doesn't mean he's got your back professionally.

Gary would have gotten more mileage out of taking Keenum's playmaking ability (which neither Schaub nor Yates can really match) and just throwing out the rule book and setting that guy up to score points. I felt like at times against KC and against Indianapolis in the first half that was happening. I thought that against Arizona it looked like we tried to fit him more into the system we run (though I thought that had more to do with a lack of willingness on Dennison's part to be creative on his own apart from what Gary would have done) and I felt like against Oakland we literally tried to shove him into a "Matt Schaub" shaped hole (ok, bad round peg-square hole attempt).

Our offense has looked best under Keenum when it looked nothing like what Matt was doing but that requires Gary to be outside of his comfort zone and he just doesn't seem willing to do that.

Gary had a chance I thought to come back if he'd shown growth. If the team had gone through this brutal season and transformed in the process to a different kind of offense that was exciting and unpredictable. Wins would have been nice but I don't even think that wins would have been necessary. I think if he'd made the offense change to fit Case and feature Case then he could have fallen back on "Well, we lost so many guys but the silver lining is that we found a way to do things differently in the process" and people would have accepted it.

Remember how bad Richard Smith's defense was up until that one year when everyone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was gone as soon as the season was over. Then out of nowhere with no other options he turned that ****ty 4-3 of his into a fierce, attacking, swarming monster for like 5 games. Anyone else remember that? Everyone thought they'd turned the corner and he'd finally worked it out but not really. He was just desperate and saving his job and he didn't learn anything from that. He went right back into the never ending Prevent-turtle defense the next year and he was eventually fired.

Gary needed to come out taking chances and he can't make himself do it or stick to it for very long because it's outside of his being to do that. That's why he'll be gone.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #99
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,543
Rep Power: 181498 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Don't know if this has been posted from NFL.com"
Quote:
Sticking with Keenum is the sensible move. Then again, it made no sense to bench Keenum during Sunday's 28-23 loss to the Oakland Raiders -- a move that didn't work out.

"I've got total confidence in him," Kubiak said.

His actions Sunday told a different story. Kubiak spoke of Keenum's struggles to change protections and deal with Oakland's blitzes, but isn't experience the best teacher?

"I didn't want to put a young guy in a bad situation," Kubiak said. "I'd do it again. I tried to help out the quarterback and offensive line."

We liked it the first time Kubiak named Keenum the Texans' starter. While Keenum hasn't been perfect, he's not the reason why the Texans keep losing. He's been an upgrade from Schaub.

Facing the toughest situation of his career, Kubiak boldly rolled with Keenum in an effort to save his job. Sunday's loss to Oakland and return to Schaub came out of pure desperation. Kubiak wanted to see if Schaub had anything left from his peak Pro Bowl form. It didn't work.
link

That statement just eats me up.


CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013   #100
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,668
Rep Power: 86686 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Keenum starter for Jacksonville game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Well, that's kind of the weird thing to me and the biggest indictment of Kubiak as HC in recent memory. He's trying to win games to save his job. We all get that. I think McNair gets that. I don't think wins are what saves Gary Kubiak if he is (or was prior to Sunday) able to save his ass. I think that sticking to Schaub, even if it provides us with a couple of extra ugly dysfunctional wins this year is a huge mistake. In this sense I think that McNair and the ticket buying public are on the same page. No one wants to see anymore safe and mostly ineffectual "Schaub-ball" with the Texans beating up on the weak sisters and crawling to a .500 record (which I know is no longer even possible). This isn't Gary's first couple of years where a late season rally to 8-8 will look like progress. That tack won't cut it in 2013.

Gary says he hasn't lost the locker room and I again accept that he sees it that way. What he doesn't seem to understand is that having a locker room full of guys who say the right things (because they're been trained to do so) and having a locker room full of guys who all like you isn't the same thing as having a locker room full of guys who are all with you. They can all be your friends and like you and one another while knowing that what you're doing isn't working. Just because a guy will buy you dinner and talk good about you on his radio show doesn't mean he's got your back professionally.

Gary would have gotten more mileage out of taking Keenum's playmaking ability (which neither Schaub nor Yates can really match) and just throwing out the rule book and setting that guy up to score points. I felt like at times against KC and against Indianapolis in the first half that was happening. I thought that against Arizona it looked like we tried to fit him more into the system we run (though I thought that had more to do with a lack of willingness on Dennison's part to be creative on his own apart from what Gary would have done) and I felt like against Oakland we literally tried to shove him into a "Matt Schaub" shaped hole (ok, bad round peg-square hole attempt).

Our offense has looked best under Keenum when it looked nothing like what Matt was doing but that requires Gary to be outside of his comfort zone and he just doesn't seem willing to do that.

Gary had a chance I thought to come back if he'd shown growth. If the team had gone through this brutal season and transformed in the process to a different kind of offense that was exciting and unpredictable. Wins would have been nice but I don't even think that wins would have been necessary. I think if he'd made the offense change to fit Case and feature Case then he could have fallen back on "Well, we lost so many guys but the silver lining is that we found a way to do things differently in the process" and people would have accepted it.

Remember how bad Richard Smith's defense was up until that one year when everyone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was gone as soon as the season was over. Then out of nowhere with no other options he turned that ****ty 4-3 of his into a fierce, attacking, swarming monster for like 5 games. Anyone else remember that? Everyone thought they'd turned the corner and he'd finally worked it out but not really. He was just desperate and saving his job and he didn't learn anything from that. He went right back into the never ending Prevent-turtle defense the next year and he was eventually fired.

Gary needed to come out taking chances and he can't make himself do it or stick to it for very long because it's outside of his being to do that. That's why he'll be gone.
See though, the bolded is where i just disagree. It looks different b/c of how we've been scoring as of late......but different doesn't translate to better.

Everyone, including myself, thought that we just needed to go deep more...to stop teams from sitting on the short stuff. Well, we've been doing that with Keenum & we still can't score a damn TD in the 2nd half of games. What's more is that it appears we've made a bad situation worse. The o-line is playing as bad as they've ever played since we've tried to emulate air-coryell.

The other thing is, early in the season the offense had 2 hellified explosive halfs against SD and Tenn where we looked just about unstoppable.....and that was with Schaub. Sure, we weren't going deep but we were moving the ball pretty much at will. & just like now, we had the same set of issues. We didn't run the ball well, our o-line had trouble in pass pro, our ST's was still trash and our defense wasn't exactly doing much either. We've seen that in the past with Schaub and this offense where they just get on a roll. I mean what has happened to this offense over the last 2 years?


My personal opinion is that the offense has just gotten stale & outdated. It's no longer viable to run it as an offense on its own....much like the run & shoot. Parts of it for sure can continue to be utlized, but running it exclusively...it's dead. I mean, you're starting to hear grumblings out of Washington from RG3 about how teams are keying in on their predictability.....& they have a premium talent at the qb position. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2 teams run virtually the same offense.
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger