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Old 11-07-2013   #181
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Carswell went 290 lbs. The Texans have never had a big TE in that mold The closest they have had to a primarily blocking TE was Mark Bruener who was let go while Gibbs was here. Carswell was also already with the Broncos before Gibbs got there.

Not sure who you are thinking of in Atlanta. Eric Beverly was a 300 lb C/G.

Foster hasn't reached 4.9 ypc since Leach departed. He is at 4.5 ypc this season. So basically you are only talking about 2012 which also includes getting rid of a traditional FB.
Beverly was a 300 lb G/C for Detroit he was 300 lb Blocking TE for Atlanta always lining up outside shoulder of the LT or RT. Just because Carswell was there doesn't mean that Gibbs didn't use him as his Blocking TE which is exactly what he did. Leach has been replaced by Vickers and Jones. Dreessen's quality and value has never really been replaced.
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Old 11-07-2013   #182
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Beverly was a 300 lb G/C for Detroit he was 300 lb Blocking TE for Atlanta always lining up outside shoulder of the LT or RT.
The point was he was an extra OLmen lined up at TE. He wasn't really a TE. Tons of teams including the Texans throw an extra OLmen out there lined up at TE at times but it is spot duty not the base offense.

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Just because Carswell was there doesn't mean that Gibbs didn't use him as his Blocking TE which is exactly what he did.
Didn't say he wasn't a blocking TE - in fact acknowledged that was exactly what he was. The point of him already being there was that he wasn't someone Gibbs brought in to implement his system.

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Leach has been replaced by Vickers and Jones. Dreessen's quality and value has never really been replaced.
Leach to Vickers = -.5 ypc. Dreessen there both seasons.
Vickers & Dreessen (plus Briesel and Winston) to Casey = -.4 ypc.
Casey to Jones = +.5 ypc.

I think the evidence points to the FB being a bigger factor along with the departure of Briesel and Winston. That would also be what my eyes told me.
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Old 11-07-2013   #183
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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The point was he was an extra OLmen lined up at TE. He wasn't really a TE. Tons of teams including the Texans throw an extra OLmen out there lined up at TE at times but it is spot duty not the base offense.

Sorry I missed the point. Here is what you said, "Not sure who you are thinking of in Atlanta. Eric Beverly was a 300 lb C/G." Carswell, Beverlyand Dreessen with Gibbs were full time TEs, primarily blocking TEs and part of the base offense.

Didn't say he wasn't a blocking TE - in fact acknowledged that was exactly what he was. The point of him already being there was that he wasn't someone Gibbs brought in to implement his system.

Neither was Winston but he used Eric to implement his system


Leach to Vickers = -.5 ypc. Dreessen there both seasons.
Vickers & Dreessen (plus Briesel and Winston) to Casey = -.4 ypc.
Casey to Jones = +.5 ypc.

I think the evidence points to the FB being a bigger factor along with the departure of Briesel and Winston. That would also be what my eyes told me.
I have said for years that after Winston, Brisiel, Leach, Vickers and Dreessen were gone the Texans have never really replaced them equal or better quality players. There is an argument for Brooks but only recently. The reason this discussion was about TEs is because it was primarily about Alex Gibbs and his use of Blocking TEs. No argument from me about importance of the FB in Gibb's system but we were discussing TEs.
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Old 11-07-2013   #184
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

Sure Beverly was part of the base offense. That's why he had 7 starts in 3 years with Gibbs. Dreessen in contrast had 11 starts with Gibbs in 2009. Dreessen and Beverly share little more than where they lined up.
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Old 11-08-2013   #185
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Beside Evans, there are also B Coleman, a 6'6 guy from Rutgers, and Kelvin Benjamin, a 6'5 guy from Fla. St.
With high 4.5 speed, I think one of these guys can put on some weight if they want to convert them to TE.
Benjamin, for example, is already listed at 234lbs.
Benjamin is only a RS Sophomore. He has a lot to learn and could be even a bigger part of the offense next year. I wouldn't count on him coming out.
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Old 11-08-2013   #186
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

If you want a good blocking TE who at least shows promise as a receiver who we could probably get in the late rounds check out Ben Koyack out of Norte dame.
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Old 11-08-2013   #187
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Sure Beverly was part of the base offense. That's why he had 7 starts in 3 years with Gibbs. Dreessen in contrast had 11 starts with Gibbs in 2009. Dreessen and Beverly share little more than where they lined up.
starts vs number of snaps played are two completely different categories and while you would expect Daniels to start every game that he's not injured you wouldn't think that of a #2 or #3 TE. If you have the number of snaps played that may or may not support the # of starts discussion. You also have to take in to consideration that Beverly was injured and that Alge Crumpler besides being a very good receiving TE was also a good Blocking TE. During the time that Beverly was injured the Falcons run game suffered.
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Old 11-08-2013   #188
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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starts vs number of snaps played are two completely different categories and while you would expect Daniels to start every game that he's not injured you wouldn't think that of a #2 or #3 TE. If you have the number of snaps played that may or may not support the # of starts discussion. You also have to take in to consideration that Beverly was injured and that Alge Crumpler besides being a very good receiving TE was also a good Blocking TE. During the time that Beverly was injured the Falcons run game suffered.
If you are going to suggest these stats then why not produce them?
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Old 11-08-2013   #189
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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If you are going to suggest these stats then why not produce them?
I would if I knew where to find snap counts for 1996-98 and 2004-2006, maybe you could help out if you know. Unfortunately my source for player snaps PFF was not around during this time.
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Old 11-08-2013   #190
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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If you are going to suggest these stats then why not produce them?
True.

Even if Beverly played every snap it doesn't prove Gibbs' typical operation. Beverly was an aberration even for Gibbs.
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Old 11-08-2013   #191
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
True.

Even if Beverly played every snap it doesn't prove Gibbs' typical operation. Beverly was an aberration even for Gibbs.
Gibbs signed Beverly specifically to be his blocking TE in Atlanta. Beverly was a specific cog in Gibbs game plan. Whether or not this proves anything to you or whether you find it to be an aberration doesn't change the fact that Beverly was Gibbs Blocking TE and Gibbs always has had a primary Blocking TE in his ZBS wherever he has been.
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Old 11-08-2013   #192
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Gibbs signed Beverly specifically to be his blocking TE in Atlanta. Beverly was a specific cog in Gibbs game plan. Whether or not this proves anything to you or whether you find it to be an aberration doesn't change the fact that Beverly was Gibbs Blocking TE and Gibbs always has had a primary Blocking TE in his ZBS wherever he has been.
I never said Beverly was not the primary blocking TE nor that he was not part of Gibbs' plan in Atlanta. He clearly was. What I asserted was it was an aberration by the standard of blocking TEs he used. The dude only caught 1 pass and that was for his token final play. Gibbs was also in unique circumstances - the left handed Michael Vick was the QB and racked up 2628 yards rushing.

Anyway, we fundamentally disagree on your characterization of Dreessen as primarily a blocking TE. But anyway, this has been beaten to death.
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Old 11-08-2013   #193
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

Dreesen is not a blocking TE.

If anything Kubiak has shown a willingness to get better blocking on the edge by Keeping Bruener from the previous Regime and also he will often throw an extra tackle out there.

But Dreesen is in now way, shape or form considered a blocking TE.
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Old 11-08-2013   #194
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

1. OLB Anthony Barr
2. TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. ILB Shayne Skov
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Old 11-08-2013   #195
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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1. OLB Anthony Barr
2. TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. ILB Shayne Skov
I had Barr ranked highly at one point but he's had so many games where he's done .... next to nothing.

I feel like Mercilus & Reed are a serviceable pair at OLB and that improving play at the NT spot would solve the pass rush problems as they are "always close" but just never quite get there because QB's always seem to have the ability to step up as there is no pressure from the middle. Get some push up front , those outside guy's look a lot better.
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Old 11-08-2013   #196
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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I feel like Mercilus & Reed are a serviceable pair at OLB and that improving play at the NT spot would solve the pass rush problems as they are "always close" but just never quite get there because QB's always seem to have the ability to step up as there is no pressure from the middle. Get some push up front , those outside guy's look a lot better.
I was saying this last year. I can't help but wonder if things would be different had we drafted Jonathan Hankins or kawaan Short with our first and went WR like Stills later. Not that I don't like Hopkins.
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Old 11-08-2013   #197
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

OL or LB

Don't care which. Best one available. We need them both.
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Old 11-08-2013   #198
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I had Barr ranked highly at one point but he's had so many games where he's done .... next to nothing.

I feel like Mercilus & Reed are a serviceable pair at OLB and that improving play at the NT spot would solve the pass rush problems as they are "always close" but just never quite get there because QB's always seem to have the ability to step up as there is no pressure from the middle. Get some push up front , those outside guy's look a lot better.
This is why I would consider this draft a success if they ended up with

Nix
Murphy
Skov

These guys play hard all game long and are more alnog the line of Watt than Mitchell. Football means something to all of these guys. They eat and sleep it. You can never have too many guys like this on your team. Guys like these will help change the culture of this team.

Changing the culture is long overdue. IMHO
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Old 11-08-2013   #199
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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I was saying this last year. I can't help but wonder if things would be different had we drafted Jonathan Hankins or kawaan Short with our first and went WR like Stills later. Not that I don't like Hopkins.
I was advocating the same thing last yr. Check out somme of my old mocks. In fact I wanted Rick to trade up for Loutellieu (SP?)
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Old 11-08-2013   #200
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Default Re: Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?

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I was advocating the same thing last yr. Check out somme of my old mocks. In fact I wanted Rick to trade up for Loutellieu (SP?)
I don't need to check out old post I remember. I also said loitellieu and Sheldon Richardson were the only players I would trade up for.
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