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Old 11-06-2013   #161
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I think that what I think (or what you, or Texian, or Double Barrel thinks) is beside the point. Whether the Texans approach can be judged to be a good approach is entirely dependent on what Bob McNair thinks. It's his toy and if it's making him happy and doing what he places a priority on it doing then it's a success in his eyes.

...

I think as fans we're ****ed unless one of these guys blindly stumbles upon the key to winning by accident.
I didn't include the whole quote due to length but I think that whole post is an accurate summary of our current situation.
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Old 11-06-2013   #162
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I think that what I think (or what you, or Texian, or Double Barrel thinks) is beside the point. Whether the Texans approach can be judged to be a good approach is entirely dependent on what Bob McNair thinks. It's his toy and if it's making him happy and doing what he places a priority on it doing then it's a success in his eyes.

My belief (based on observing from the outside with no real information as to the inner working of the Houston Texans) is that Bob places a lot of stock in running an "upstanding" organization. He places a great deal of importance on being good citizens in the community and he places a lot of emphasis on everyone attending Texans games having a fun, safe, and memorable "game day experience". He wants you to be happy when you leave Reliant Stadium regardless of the outcome of the football game. Win or lose he wants you to have had a good time and to come back..... with your wallet... and as much money as you can fit in it.

He's accomplishing all of that. He's involved in a multi-year process that he believes will result in his finding the Houston Texans version of Tom Landry and that will turn his franchise in the consistent winner that he wants in the model made famous by the Rooney's in Pittsburgh. He's about doing things "the right way" and having infinite patience while slow and steady wins the race.

Bob is in business and he makes business decisions. He believes in what he's doing and how he's doing it.

Now obviously he'd prefer owning a winner to owning a door mat but ultimately I think he's more concerned with being profitable and being seen as a good example of an NFL franchise than anything else. His consistency and his "process" will result in the titles. I think that's what he genuinely believes.

I wasn't a fan of the Kubiak hiring and my posts reflect that. Dig away and you'll see that I wanted an established winning coach and not someone doing this for the first time in their career. I was done with the Kubiak regime after his second 8-8. I felt like I'd seen enough and the years since then have born out what I felt would happen. The one thing I didn't see was McNair forging an alliance with Bum Phillips and hiring Bum's son, then basically giving him that half of the authority. I think that competent defense (arriving a few years too late to take advantage of the best years of some of our offensive players careers) accounts for the two division titles and the 10-6, 12-4 records. Without those I would have expected more 6-10 to 9-7 stumbling around from Gary and whatever dip**** he had hired to coach his defense.

In my view the Texans should be in it to win it but I haven't really expected that in a long, long time. I don't think we have any chance at all of getting there with Gary Kubiak and we won't get there with Wade Phillips who has placed Gary's job in an eternal state of "I got next". I like Wade and I loved Bum but Bum got that job for Wade and I don't want Wade to be my teams head coach.

I am certain however that unless Gary survives until Wade is ready to retire Wade is next up and it will be just as bad as what we've endured under Kubiak. These are not head coaches. They're nice guys and great coordinators but there's no leader here. Never has been. The Kubiak regime isn't about leadership. It's about being a "Pro" and doing things the right way and everyone pulling together to make sure we've all got each others backs. Much like McNair I think Gary just looks at those things and thinks that if he hangs in there they alone will lead to the desired result.

I really don't think McNair can tell the difference between what Kubiak gives him and what he believes will one day get him a ring as I spelled out in my second and third paragraph. I think they look close enough to one another that he thinks Gary's method is exactly like his process.

I think as fans we're ****ed unless one of these guys blindly stumbles upon the key to winning by accident.
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.
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Old 11-06-2013   #163
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.
I can't even comprehend that. You have the patience of McNair. How you felt about Switzer is how I feel about Kubiak x 100. I don't like him whatsoever as a head coach. To me every year he stays around as head coach is another year wasted.
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Old 11-06-2013   #164
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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I can't even comprehend that. You have the patience of McNair. How you felt about Switzer is how I feel about Kubiak x 100. I don't like him whatsoever as a head coach. To me every year he stays around as head coach is another year wasted.
In a lot of ways Mcnair runs the model NFL franchise in terms of consistent, but professional mediocrity as the norm and is all that is needed to keep the stadium full and the fans hopeful enough.

he provides the product that the NFL (Goddell) expects in 32 cities. On given week the Texans can beat and lose to anybody, In given season, the Texans can overperform (2012) or underperform (2013) with near equal probability.
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Old 11-07-2013   #165
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Don't count on it. He's the only one who took the time to respond. Doesn't mean he was the only one who read that and went "wut?"
...raises hand.... I was confused.

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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Where I come from (and most of the people I know come from) the phrase business model is interpreted to mean business model. Instead of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, couldn't you just say "no big deal, I probably could've used a different phrase"?
That's what I have been wondering.
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Old 11-07-2013   #166
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by JJ Watt
We all love Coach, and dont get me wrong, we want to go out there and win to lift his spirits so he can make a quicker recovery, but we cant do it,
did he really say something like this?

or is it just the onion making fun of the texans?

source
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Old 11-07-2013   #167
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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In a lot of ways Mcnair runs the model NFL franchise in terms of consistent, but professional mediocrity as the norm and is all that is needed to keep the stadium full and the fans hopeful enough.

he provides the product that the NFL (Goddell) expects in 32 cities. On given week the Texans can beat and lose to anybody, In given season, the Texans can overperform (2012) or underperform (2013) with near equal probability.
I think Houston has had more than their share of the underperforming seasons.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you on most of it. The Texans just seem to have a 3 headed mediocre monster. Owner, GM, and head coach. As frustrating as it was to see Kubiak march Schaub out there week after week it is even more frustrating to watch McNair march Kubiak out there year after year. I wish we had Kubiak as oc and some strong leader type like Cower or Gruden as hc. Maybe tell Kubiak his stress level needs to be reduced so we are reducing your role in the organization to help you out health wise. I can dream can't I?
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Old 11-07-2013   #168
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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did he really say something like this?

or is it just the onion making fun of the texans?

source
Just the onion having a little joke at the Texans expense. Not really a big deal, just nice to see that we're back in the "butt of the joke" zone again.
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Old 11-07-2013   #169
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.
I think he's very intent on winning and that he believes that what he's done thus far is going to make it happen. I think he's mistaken and that the franchise he's setup is a recipe for 6-10 to 10-6 (at best) until the end of time but I guess to some that's a degree of success. Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati seems to have survived living in that "climate" for a long time. Gary Kubiak has as well.

I agree with you about the strengths of Gary Kubiak and I think they're what make him a great coordinator as well as mediocre head coach. I guess we could win with him if everything falls into place at the right time and Rick Smith is suddenly possessed by the spirits of both Mike Holovak and Joel Bushbaum at the same time but I find it unlikely.

I hope for the best but believe ultimately that we'll not be consistently winning under this regime and that the above average years will come as a result of simple good fortune as opposed to some kind of breakthrough of understanding on Kubes part. He does everything the same way with focused consistency every year so outlying seasons (for better or worse) are generally attributable to something else affecting the situation.
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Old 11-07-2013   #170
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.
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Old 11-07-2013   #171
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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I was going to respond that I was probably the only one that read your post, but obviously I was the only one that spent any time bothering to respond to it.

Typed slowly it means: nobody else thought enough of your post to reply.

That's sort of a backhanded compliment, but the only kind that you will get from me.



Actually, that would be incorrect. If I had understood your post to mean what you did not actually write, then I never would have replied to it.

There are many of your posts...actually most of them to be honest...that I could confront if I wanted a "pizzing match". But your takes on football are not that interesting and I have no desire to debate your Fox News talking points in the NSZ.

I just made the mistake of taking your previously quoted post at face value when I replied. Obviously my mistake to give you any credit at all.



yeah, that would have been the easy way, but that's not how Ms. Texian likes to operate. She is always right...even when she's wrong.
So you're a Libby...that explains a lot.....just like a Libby, brings his animosity, dislikes and vitriol to a football discussion..... a man who can't separate his politics from his football.....now we understand the bias and the absence of objectivity. Instead of business, he makes it personal. Carry On
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Old 11-07-2013   #172
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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So you're a Libby...that explains a lot.....just like a Libby, brings his animosity, dislikes and vitriol to a football discussion..... a man who can't separate his politics from his football.....now we understand the bias and the absence of objectivity. Instead of business, he makes it personal. Carry On
You had to sleep on it to come up with this reply? How embarrassing for you.
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Old 11-07-2013   #173
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Old 11-07-2013   #174
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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You had to sleep on it to come up with this reply? How embarrassing for you.
Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.
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Old 11-07-2013   #175
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.
Give it up, man. It's run it's course and derailed the thread. I'm as guilty as you for stepping in the poo, and I take the full blame because I should know better than to engage you, of all people.

Take our fellow posters' remarks to heart and let this thread get back to where it should be.

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.
Quote:
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I agree with both of y'all and sincerely apologize to the forum for my part in pulling this thread away from it's original intent. Trolls gonna' troll, and I know better, so truly sorry to be a part of it.
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Old 11-07-2013   #176
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Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.
It's not that hard to accumulate a lot of posts. Certainly doesn't take 16-18 hours a day. Your "Get a life" implication doesn't really work.

Time to go away.
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Old 11-07-2013   #177
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Just the onion having a little joke at the Texans expense. Not really a big deal, just nice to see that we're back in the "butt of the joke" zone again.
the sad thing is that the look of watt actually sais:

Quote:
Originally Posted by look on jj's face at the end of the game
I love Coach, and dont get me wrong, I want to go out there and win to lift his spirits so he can make a quicker recovery, but THEY cant do it,
or at least that's the impression I have
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Old 11-07-2013   #178
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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He's accomplishing He's involved in a multi-year process that he believes will result in his finding the Houston Texans version of Tom Landry and that will turn his franchise in the consistent winner that he wants in the model made famous by the Rooney's in Pittsburgh.
Bob's Tom Landry business model is missing a Tex Schram and a Gil Brandt.
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Old 11-07-2013   #179
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.
Quoting myself in shame. Made a grammar error I hate.

**their soap avatars**

But seriously folks who can't let it go, take it elsewhere please.

Back on topic

Quote:
Three days after coach Gary Kubiak collapsed on the Reliant Stadium turf and a few hours after the team named defensive coordinator Wade Phillips the interim coach, the Houston Chronicle reports that, barring any setbacks, Kubiak will return for the Week 11 contest vs. the Raiders.

That obviously would be great news for Kubiak, who reportedly suffered a mini-stroke during halftime of last week's Colts game and had to be rushed to the hospital.

He was released from the hospital Tuesday and released this statement:

I want to thank my family, the McNair family, the Texans organization, the doctors and staff at Houston Methodist and the entire Houston community for all the love and support we have received over the past three days. I've been through an ordeal and my focus now is to get back to good health. Doctors have told me I will make a full recovery but we have not determined when I will be cleared to return to the office. Again, thank you for the support and concern.
I wish him the best.

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Old 11-07-2013   #180
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

I'd like to make a request that this thread be locked.

It's going to continue to get derailed if it isn't, and it's not the appropriate place to discuss Kubiak, the coach, and what you think of him as the coach.
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